Mission Builder

[scruffyduck]

I am curious to get the views of anyone who has tried to use the SDK mission builder.

Last year I developed a program capable of doing most things that the mission builder can do. I stopped development when I heard that there was to be a mission builder in FSX.

It has been suggested to me by one of my beta testers on that program that the SDK mission builder is not a very friendly tool and that a third party offering such as mine might well be needed.

I would not want to go back to it unless it seemed useful. So two questions:

1) Do you think the mission builder is easy to use?

2) Would a third party tool have benefit and be useful?

Thanks

[Horst18519]

I like the mission builder for it is easy to use and you can get some nice results within some hours of work.

I'd like to see another tool to do this though. There are always ways to improve things. The object-placement could be more user-friendly, triggers could be placed combined with an activation-action (combined object placement), an integrated sound-tool would be grand!

Tell us what ideas you had for the tool, then we can see if it's worth your hard work.

[scruffyduck]

Hi Thorsten

I need to see what people would want. My tool did most of what the Mission Builder does now except that it had it's own development language the user program controlled FS actions from outside the Sim.

Because it used FSUIPC to communicate with and control FS it was planned to make it extensible. I really need to take a close look at what capabilities there are in the mission development language. Also I interested n what it can do display scenery objects in a dynamic way.

What ever I did it would be external to the Sim and generate the different files needed for the mission. Try to make the more unfriendly parts friendly, perhaps see how far the mission 'language' could be pushed and also if it could be extended with FSUIPC4

[P-12C]

We are expecting someone in the community to build a tool that is easier to use than what we have in the SDK. What we have was built just to get the job done and we didn't do much of anything to help usability.

I really like having a WYSIWYG interface, especially where scenery is concerned, but I wish we had a tool to dynamically show the logic and connections within the mission. Something that allows changes from either perspective (in-game or logical view). We had a Visio plug-in to show logic that was pretty cool but it wasn't friendly for placing objects and it wasn't compatible with the object placement tool in the SDK.

Lastly, error checking that identifies the true culprit breaking the mission would be fantastic and would probably be the greatest aid for mission builders.

[scruffyduck]

Hmmmm well I guess I need to dust off the old code then

[Horst18519]

So, Jon, here is my whishlist:

- An (extern?) compilerwindow that shows the steps of the compiler while I run the mission (maybe with a step-by-step-function so I can see where I made an error) and also shows all counters and timers, which is very annoying not to have in FSX. You always have to guess where the counter stands...
- A compiler error message directing me to the error I made
- A clone-tool, with which I can make copies of several linked commands (for example a copy of a trigger with the de-/activator of the trigger).
- Let the clone-tool not rename like "copy -", this is crap. Better do it like GMax (01,02,...).
- An intelligent command placement, that places an activator together with a trigger or an area together with a prox- or landingtrigger. That would save sooo much time.
- Maybe a loop-function liek a "if then" - but maybe this is something that would have been implemented in the mission engine.

That's it for now. But I guess I forgot a lot of things...

Would be great to have such a tool.

[scruffyduck]

OK Thorsten

I am working on updating LOM for FSX at the moment and also building a new de-compiler. Once that is done I will take a look at the Mission Builder

[archtx]

I really like being able to add scenery objects to a mission as opposed to a seperate scenery file. Saves activating a scenery file in the scenery library, plus they aren't there when flying not flying the mission.

What would be neat is if there was some type of preview of the objects library. It is hard to choose from the list with the brief written discription.

Is something like that possible?

I also find that building areas for proximity triggers is somewhat awkward. It seems some type of drag feature (like that old exclude builder) would be nice.

I also find that the interface for entering text in mission builder is difficult to edit. Especially geographic coordinates. You almost have to delete and start over. Right now it seems it would be easier to type out text messages in notepad and copy and paste.

[archtx]

Forgot one thing:

It would be nice to see things in the order in which they occur. Right now it is hard to tell the sequence in either the object placer tool or the xml file.

[scruffyduck]

OK Thanks - keep the ideas coming folks

[archtx]

Jon, after having played with this thing almost constantly since the 17th of October, here is what I visualize. Please don't laugh, bear in mind that I am an architect, not a software designer.

The main interface would be like top down spot view, where you can zoom in and out, with a small inset window for exterior Spot Plane view. (This mainly to preview scenery objects during selection, which you can do now with Object Placer tool, but in a very awkward fashion.) On the main interface (top down view) your flight plan would be projected on your screen, as in Map view. You could click on the flight plan where you wish to insert something and get a SMALL pop-up window with menu choices.....action, trigger, scenery object etc. Each choice could in return bring up it's own sub-menu for the required properties, etc.

Then, hopefully, it would output to a text document or spreadsheet where you would see a logical flow of events, and see the sequence of the mission unfold. Possibly even being able to hand edit that part. Then send it on to an XML file.

Is all of that a pipe-dream, or not? I personally do much better with graphical interfaces like AFCAD and SBuilder than other types, but perhaps just because of my background.

Thanks, Arch

[scruffyduck]

Hi Arch

Thanks for that - makes sense to me - whether my programming skills are up to implementing it is another matter

[Horst18519]

I really like the fsx-way to see the mission-objects right within fsx. But it would be great to combine this with an exterior editor unlike the fsx-objectplacementtool with all the nice ideas implemented.

[Jib01]

Since i am new at this I will look at it from the new user and non-programmer type. All the features mentioned are nice but they should not be the default interface. Keep it simple. If the user is advanced enough to do debugging the provide the advanced settings to he can use the tools if he wants. I just went thru the MissionCreationTutorial and had some errors I could never find. Even the minimal error catcher didn't find anything.

For me, the Mission Creator should have a debugger just like C or any other programming language.

Regards
Jib01/02

[BASys]

Hi Folks

I'm coming a little late to some of these posts.

Originally Posted by P-12C

We are expecting someone in the community to build a tool that is easier to use than what we have in the SDK.
<snip>
I really like having a WYSIWYG interface, especially where scenery is concerned,
but I wish we had a tool to dynamically show the logic and connections within the mission.
<snip>
Lastly, error checking that identifies the true culprit breaking the mission would be fantastic and would probably be the greatest aid for mission builders.

Paul -

Didn't someone have a working Mission Editor tool, (was it JK),
that at least covered the logic aspects of this ?

Has it been upgraded post RTM ?

HTH
ATB
Paul

[P-12C]

Yes he did (JK) and I haven't seen or heard anything from him anywhere. I've thought about pinging him, maybe I better do it.