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FSX Generic Buildings are not showing up in FSX

Messages
946
Hi,
For some reason, my generic buildings are not showing up in the sim, even though I have them in ADE. The library objects show up okay. But first, let me explain some of the things I'm doing and what I've done.

What I'm doing is working on an airport, KBHM from the year of around 1985, but I've haven't been successful in finding a good high resolution satellite map from that time to use as an alignment map in ADE. The best thing I could come up with is one from google earth from 1998, which is a black and white satellite view and the resolution is not that great. I wanted to create an airport from that period because these were my flying days at the airport, and we lived right across the street from it in 1973. I remember the old terminal where you could go up to the roof and watch planes. Runway 5/23 was only 10,000 ft. and runway 18/36 was 4,856 ft. This will mean that I will have 2 KBHM Airports in my simulator.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but when I go into the scenery library in FSX and uncheck the new KBHM airport that's already installed, does that disable that new airport so that it doesn't display in the simulator? And I don't think that unchecking that box actually uninstalls the new airport but it only keeps it from being displayed. And when I install the old KBHM airport, it seems to me it should display everything. So, I guess my question is that is it possible to have 2 of the same airports, KBHM, installed and simply switch from one to the other as long as I keep one of them disabled so that only one of them is displayed?

The New KBHM airport was put out by SXAD and is installed. My old KBHM is the one I've created and it's installed in the Addon Scenery/scenery folder, which is a simple bgl file that was compiled from ADE. Regarding the generic buildings not showing up in my sim, I wonder if the new KBHM have to be uninstalled before these objects show up in the sim, or does that have anything to do with it?
 
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Messages
223
Country
us-idaho
If the "new" KBHM is an addon that you have installed in to the addon scenery library, which I assume it is since you mention it is by SXAD, a developer I have never heard of by the way, and the "old" KBHM is the ADE project that is also installed in the addon scenery library, then yes, you can have two versions of KBHM installed...as long as only one of them is checked and active at any given time. Either one being active will "subdue" or "hide" the default KBHM that comes with FSX. Unchecking a box in the addon scenery library list does not uninstall the scenery. Just prevents it from displaying.

If, when you created the "old" KBHM with ADE you included generic buildings using the "add library object" or "add generic building" option, then they should show up regardless of whether the "new" KBHM is active or not, however it is never a good thing to have two versions of the same airport active at the same time. It sounds like you added building and library objects to the ADE "old" KBHM project, but perhaps I am reading that wrong and you just left any buildings that were already there in place. What file did you open to begin the ADE project, the bgl for the addon SXAD addon or the stock FSX KBHM? If the SXAD version is the one you opened to begin your ADE project and ADE displayed the SXAD building footprints, when you compiled your work you should have gotten "black box" warnings. Did you? If you did, and answered "yes, compile anyway" then that is the problem. The SXAD objects and buildings are not in a "library" where either ADE or FSX can find them and apply them to the ADE project.

If the simple bgl file you created with ADE did not include any added buildings and you assumed the buildings and objects from the "new" KBHM would be there without the runway they will not appear if you have the "new" KBHM disabled (unchecked) then any buildings in the "new" KBHM scenery are also disabled so you will not see them. Any buildings in the default KBHM scenery are also disabled. So, if you just created an ADE file with the shortened runways, parking areas, and taxiways with no buildings, then no buildings will show up, just a flat airport.

Randy
 
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tgibson

Resource contributor
Messages
11,327
Country
us-california
Randy gave you a great description, but it would help to have a little more information.

Is the new KBHM scenery from SXAD installed into its own scenery folder and scenery layer? If so, unchecking it in the Scenery Library will indeed inactivate it (and not uninstall it). You must have the Addon Scenery layer present and checked as active for your old KBHM to appear. And you should only have one of these scenery layers checked as active, not both. And if you have neither of them checked as active the default airport should appear.

Hope this helps,
 
Messages
946
Hi Randy and Tom,
Yes, that was a good description.

but it would help to have a little more information. Is the new KBHM scenery from SXAD installed into its own scenery folder and scenery layer?

Yes, the KBHM scenery from SXAD is installed into the scenery library and I have that un-checked. But there is one thing I need to make clear. I may have mentioned that the New KBHM from SXAD was installed in the Addon Scenery folder. No, it's not. It is installed in FSX in it's own folder named SXAD. In that folder is a subfolder named SXAD KBHM. And in that folder are the Scenery and Texture folders. After the installation, I did have to go to the scenery library and activate it.


You must have the Addon Scenery layer present and checked as active for your old KBHM to appear.

Well, the KBHM Old is not installed in the scenery library in FSX. The KBHM Old is installed in the Addon Scenery/scenery folder, not the Addon Scenery folder. It just a single bgl file and this one does not contain the subfolders Scenery and Texture as the one from SXAD. So, the KBHM Old is not installed in the scenery library. It's installed in the Addon Scenery/scenery folder, usually where one would place afcad files. Could this be my problem because I though about this as well?


perhaps I am reading that wrong and you just left any buildings that were already there in place. What file did you open to begin the ADE project, the bgl for the addon SXAD addon or the stock FSX KBHM?

The bgl I opened to begin my project was the FSX stock KBHM. It already contained it's original library objects and scenery buildings, The library objects are displayed in FSX, but it's the scenery buildings that are not displayed, and that what's strange about it and don't understand why they won't display.

Now, there is one thing that I should mention which I was going to ask about, but I don't think it has anything to do with this problem. When I click the Compile button, I get a message saying:


Ground poly object bounded by:

Latitude - min: 33.5554224538642 max: 33.555779774077
Longitude - min: -86.7720938797147 max: -86.7714950160996

must be edited before it can be compiled in its current form/location.

Do you want to edit now?


Then, before it finally complies, I get this message:

ADE_GroundPolys

File "C:\MSFS\FSDesign Tools\Airport Design Editor 165\Textures\TAXIWAY_MARKS.bmp" not found.


When I clicked YES to edit the Ground poly object bounded by, it does not show anything regarding the latitude and longitude of the ground poly. So, I don't understand what needs to edited. But as I said, I don't think this has anything to do with the scenery buildings not being displayed in FSX. This ground poly is the "hold short" that's painted on the pavement, and I noticed that when I load the simulator, this GP is not where it should be. But in ADE, it's exactly where it should be because I used an alignment map to place it. Hope someone can explain why the scenery buildings are not being displayed, although they shown in ADE.

Ken.
 
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Messages
223
Country
us-idaho
Hello Ken,

This is getting confusing for me because you mention you are working in ADEX by opening the stock KBHM airport, yet you mention when you compiled that ADE found a ground poly. As far as I know, and I am by no means any kind of expert on this, there are no ground polys used in the default "stock" FSX airports. I base this on the hundreds (yes hundreds) of FSX airports I have "adjusted" using ADEX. In all those airports I have never gotten that ground poly warning unless I added a ground poly intentionally or I was working with another freeware or payware version of the airport that included ground polys already.

Just for giggles I just now finished opening the default "Stock" KBHM with ADEX, made a few changes just for the sake of change, shortened the runways and then compiled. I got no GP warnings and the airport compiled just fine with no issues. So the GP warning you got must be something you have added to the scenery or something that SXAD added that is still active.

So, to begin with, the Addon Scenery/scenery folder is, as far as I know, always an active scenery folder. The sceneries you can check and uncheck typically go in to Addon Scenery because Addon Scenery (the folder) is always active. It always active because that's how FSX displays all the default sceneries, buildings, etc that come with FSX. So, by placing your ADE "old" version of KBHM in addon scenery/scenery you are making it always the active KBHM for FSX to display. Not a problem if you have SXAD Birmingham unchecked, but if you ever decide to switch to "today" at KBHM by checking the SXAD KBHM box you now have two active sceneries fighting for "display rights" because there is no way that I know of, short of deleting it, to temporarily deactivate any scenery in the Addon Scenery/Scenery folder. There is no "check box" for Addon Scenery/Scenery that I can see.

Now, back to the ADE "old" version of KBHM. Could it be that you have your scenery complexity set at a lower level than the objects you are expecting to see. For instance, there are twelve jetways at the default FSX KBHM. Five of them are set to "extremely dense", so unless you have your scenery complexity slider set all the way to the right you will never see those five jetways. There are 36 buildings not counting the terminals that I see in the default "stock" KBHM. 21 of them are set to "Very Dense", which only one level lower than the full right slider setting. So if you have your complexity set to "Dense" or "Normal" you will never see those 21 buildings or those 5 jetways.

You mention "library objects" display and "scenery buildings" don't. You need to clarify this a bit. By "library objects" are these objects that you added to the "old" KBHM using the "add library object" option in ADE? If not, what do you mean by "library objects"? Are you talking about antennae, VOR shacks, ILS transmitters that are a part of FSX's stock library objects? By "scenery buildings" are you talking about buildings on the airport property or buildings that depict downtown Birmingham and the surrounding area?

From what I read about SXAD Burmingham, it sounds like a pretty elaborate and realistic scenery...for today's Shuttlesworth. But I wonder, did it install itself in all the places it needed to place things and then you had to activate it? I did notice a "warning" that it required manual activation, but i wonder if during install that it didn't place things in obscure or seldom "visited" places, especially since it is photoreal, that are affecting what is displayed. Note GHD's comment about generic buildings not playing well with photoscenery. Sounds like, especially since you got a GP warning when compiling the "stock" KBHM, there are "hidden" pieces and parts of the SXAD KBHM still in play and active, even though the airport itself is unchecked in addon scenery.

As Tom said, we still need more info.

Randy
 
Messages
946
Hello Ken,

This is getting confusing for me because you mention you are working in ADEX by opening the stock KBHM airport, yet you mention when you compiled that ADE found a ground poly. As far as I know, and I am by no means any kind of expert on this, there are no ground polys used in the default "stock" FSX airports. I base this on the hundreds (yes hundreds) of FSX airports I have "adjusted" using ADEX. In all those airports I have never gotten that ground poly warning unless I added a ground poly intentionally or I was working with another freeware or payware version of the airport that included ground polys already.

Hi Randy,
The ground poly I was referring to is what I intentionally added. It did not come with the stock. I added this ground poly myself, which is the hold short that's painted on the pavement and looks much better than using the hold short tool at the top in ADE. This is why I'm getting that error message and it seems to have something to do with it's placement because it's not in the correct location in the simulator but it is in the correct location in ADE. Maybe I just need to delete it and create another one.


The sceneries you can check and uncheck typically go in to Addon Scenery because Addon Scenery (the folder) is always active.

I think you're correct because I got to thinking about that. Instead of using the Addon Scenery/scenery folder to place my airport files, I created a folder, in the Addon Scenery folder, and named it KBHM OLD. In that folder, I created 2 other folders named Scenery and Texture, as this is the normal structure. I compiled and placed those files in the Scenery folder of KBHM OLD. I launched FSX and guess what, all of the scenery building now display, and that folder KBHM OLD is now in the scenery library in FSX so that it can be checked or uncheck. So, I guess it must be structured this way to make it work.



Not a problem if you have SXAD Birmingham unchecked, but if you ever decide to switch to "today" at KBHM by checking the SXAD KBHM box you now have two active sceneries fighting for "display rights" because there is no way that I know of, short of deleting it, to temporarily deactivate any scenery in the Addon Scenery/Scenery folder. There is no "check box" for Addon Scenery/Scenery that I can see.

Yes, I see what you're saying. If I should go back to the new KBHM from SXAD, I would delete the files in the Addon Scenery/scenery folder before switching over the new one. So, that's why I would need to use the Addon Scenery folder to place my other airport files if I want to have more than one, and of course, keep only one of them active at a time.


Could it be that you have your scenery complexity set at a lower level than the objects you are expecting to see.

I checked for that and my is set to Extremely Dense, or is at max.


By "library objects" are these objects that you added to the "old" KBHM using the "add library object" option in ADE? If not, what do you mean by "library objects"? Are you talking about antennae, VOR shacks, ILS transmitters that are a part of FSX's stock library objects? By "scenery buildings" are you talking about buildings on the airport property or buildings that depict downtown Birmingham and the surrounding area?

I did not add any of the library objects nor any of the scenery buildings. By the way, I should have said "Generic Buildings", not "scenery buildings." When you have ADE running, the buildings in yellow are the library objects and the building in blue are the generic buildings. The generic buildings were the ones that would not display. But since I have my files placed in the Addon Scnery folder, they now display. For some reason, the generic buildings will not display when the bgl files are placed in the Addon Scenery/scenery folder.


From what I read about SXAD Burmingham, it sounds like a pretty elaborate and realistic scenery...for today's Shuttlesworth.

It is. But the textures for the terminal are not quite the correct colors and they did not put in the correct number of windows and details as I did when I created my own KBHM. The texture for the runways don't look right either as it looks like gravel instead of smooth asphalt.


did it install itself in all the places it needed to place things and then you had to activate it?

It's an .exe file that installs into FSX in its own SXAD folder.


I did notice a "warning" that it required manual activation

It does. You have to go into the scenery library in FSX and activate it.


Ken.
 
Messages
223
Country
us-idaho
Sounds like you have at least solved the original issue of not all the buildings displaying, Ken. That's great.

Something I started doing once I started using ADEX a lot was created a new folder in FSX/Addon Scenery called /ADEX Airports/ with a scenery folder and texture folder within. I added that folder to the scenery library and my compiles automatically place the compiled ADEX bgl in that scenery folder. Any new airports that compile there using ADEX are automatically added and visible the next time I start FSX. Plus it helps keep all my ADEX mods in one place so I can see at a quick glance what I've changed with ADEX.

Also, I have never trusted automatic installers, so in my USER/documents folder I created a folder called "Installers Here". Then within that folder I created two more folders, one called "FS9" and one called "FSX" (I have both platforms). Now I point automatic installers to the appropriate folder there and after the install completes I look to see what it would have placed where inside my actual platform folder and, usually, just move them there myself once I am sure the installer isn't going place an old copy of FSUIPC where it shouldn't or change a file like "halo.bmp" that a lot of addon airports and aircraft like to do sometimes. Doesn't always work, especially with products requiring activation through the developer's website (registry issues can crop up) but it has saved me some grief from time to time. Sometimes, if I am sure there won't be any issues with where the installer wants to place things, I will do an uninstall and then a reinstall to the correct platform location.

Anyway, glad you seem to have it sorted out.

Randy
 

tgibson

Resource contributor
Messages
11,327
Country
us-california
Hi,

Glad you got it working. It appears that either your Addon Scenery layer in the Scenery Library is missing or unchecked, or there was another active addon scenery for that airport (listed above the Addon Scenery layer) that included an exclude file for those objects.

Contrary to popular opinion, the Addon Scenery folder is *not* active without a scenery layer listed in the Scenery Library and checked as active. While this is indeed present in the default installation, I have found that some people have deleted this layer while "cleaning up" their Scenery Library. When problems like this occur, it should be confirmed that the Addon Scenery layer is present and checked as active, somewhere in the Scenery Library listing.

Hope this helps,
 
Messages
946
Hi,
Thanks for all your help guys. There is another problem I'm having and I don't know if that can be corrected or not.

First of all, I have a terrain scenery imgage called "MagaScenery Earth Alabama." It covers the entire state of Alabama and Birmingham, including the Birmingham's Shuttlesworth Airport. The airport image lines up okay if I'm using the latest KBHM airport scenery. But when I use the KBHM OLD scenery from the 1980s, before the runways were extended, for example, this creates a problem because even though I have the Old KBHM installed and active, the image of the runway in the Alabama MagaScenery Earth blends through and I can still see where the runways have been lengthen. For example, in the 1980s, runway 36/18 was 4,856' and in the MagaScenery Earth, the runway is 7,100', and when coming in for a landing on 36, this extra length is visible, and the same applies to runway 24, which was runway 23 in 1980.

In ADE, I tried using the Add Polygon to draw a polygon around the airport peramature where I wanted it to cover the extended portions of the runways, or overwrite the Alabama Scenery just in those areas. In the Properties under Type, I selected "Airport Background." Under Tag, I selected "Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen," but it's not covering the area I wanted it to cover. I May not be making the correct selections or using the right tools. So, can anyone explain what I need to do to cover the extended portions of the runways.

Ken.
 
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Messages
223
Country
us-idaho
Hi Ken,

I would think that as long as MegaScenery Earth (MSE hereafter) is in a lower priority (bigger number) in your scenery library than "old" KBHM the polygon method should work. But as I've said here several times, I am by no means an expert at this, just a "Trial and Error...see what works" kinda guy.

I have MSE Idaho and have the Addon Scenery/ADEX Airports folder I described earlier at a higher priority and have no problems with the ADE projects I do for Idaho airports showing on top of the MSE photoscenery, even when there are elevation differences.

When I wanted to place autogen on the bgl tiles for MSE I used Autogen Annotator from the FSX SDK. Not really what you are trying to do, but it is a way to look at the MSE tiles and see which one is the Shuttlesworth area tile. Once you find it you could delete that tile from the scenery folder (actually I would just move it out so you don't lose the tile). MSE doesn't place their tiles in any specific order and MSE Idaho has close to 1,000 tiles, so looking for the KBHM area could prove tedious and time consuming.

Or, you could read up on Autogen Annotator and cover the exposed photoscenery runway area with autogen buildings and trees to effectively "hide" the runway.

It is an option, though, if no one else chimes in with a better idea.

Randy

Edit: Here's a thought I had while proofreading this for mistakes. Try placing a library object off the end of the "old" KBHM runway and see if it displays on top of the MSE Alabama photoscenery. It should. If it does, ignore the Autogen Annotator suggestion and just blanket that area of the exposed runway photoscenery with library object trees, buildings, cars, anything to hide the exposed runway photoscenery.
 
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Messages
1,001
Country
us-florida
I think that Randy is giving you the best solution. I don't think that you can exclude the MSE tile. Without excluding the MSE tile even if your KBHM Old loads after the MSE tile it may still show or bleed through. Once the MSE tile is no longer being displayed you can exclude the default airport background and create a new one. Use a polygon Type: Exclude General, Tag Name: Airport Backgrounds to exclude the default background. This polygon doesn't need to cover the whole default polygon. Just have it cross the edge of the default back ground. Now you can create a polygon Type: Airport Background, Tag Name: Flatten Mask Class Map Exclude Autogen.
 
Messages
7,450
Country
us-illinois
< 'Re-positioned' by GaryGB to optimize topic sequence >

Hi Ken:

There can be considerable complexity involved in making a Ground Polygon (aka "G-Poly") to cover the unwanted "new" RWY. :alert:

Textured default-type land class polygons will not cover the unwanted "new" RWY, but a custom photo-real aerial image edited to remove the unwanted "new" RWY can be feathered off to a transparent edge onto the underlying MegaScenery AL photo-real aerial imagery ...from a higher Area priority position near the top of the FS scenery library GUI stack of layers. :idea:

AFAIK, both your custom photo-real aerial image edited to remove the unwanted "new" RWY and the MegaScenery AL photo-real aerial imagery may then utilize the same tile of Autogen annotation when you are finished with creating your custom photo-real aerial image.


PS: If you would be interested in discussing that latter option, we can do so in a new thread here: :pushpin:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/ground2k4-sbuilder-sbuilderx.33/


FYI
:

KBHM - 1951

birminghamitlapt-9mar1951-jpg.38336


http://www.airports-worldwide.com/usa/alabama/birmingham_international_alabama.htm


KBHM - 2008

1200px-birmingham-shuttlesworth_international_airport-jpg.38335


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham–Shuttlesworth_International_Airport


GaryGB
 

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