Light source offset (bug?)

[Captain7]

Hi,

first of all: You made a great tool, thanks a lot for giving it to the community! I enjoy using it very much

If have 2 questions:
1: The lights are placed with a little offset as you can see on the image. This is true for my custom runway edge light model but also for the untouched base models you provide with your tool. Any idea how to avoid this? I manually adjusted the offset setting in the types.txt for my custom papi. But I thought I post it either.
2: What light type or settings is required to get a runway edge light that is only visible at dusk/dawn/night? The 'omni' light I used for the runway edge light is visible all time of the day.

Thanks,
Volker

 

[gadgets]

Hi, Volker. Glad you are enjoying AFLT.

You haven't indicated which version of FlightSim you are using or AFLT. I presume FSX and AFLT 1.0.03 or later. (If you are not using 1.0.03 or 1.0.04, please update and try again.) I also presume this is not an issue that started in 1.0.04, released only last week.

Dealing with the easy part first, if your lights are on all the time, you must have pilot-controlled lighting enabled. By default, the lights (except for VASI/PAPI, ODALS, etc., of course) are off during the day.

Re the offset, unfortunately, I am not able to duplicate the issue - even using German language - and no one else has (ever) reported it. So, I suspect the problem is caused by something in your system configuration.

From your screenshot, I notice some non-standard edge lines on your runway, so I presume you have other "specialized capabilities" in effect.

It appears that for, whatever reason, the X and Z axes are interchanged in the placement of the attachpoints in the lights. This could be due to the design of your model (unlikely, since you say the stock model is similarly affected) of to an errant or missing transform in earlier-executed .asm-based code. I also notice from your screenshot that you have MCX open in another window. I trust you have not modified the stock models in any way.

As a first step, may I suggest you check whether or not the lights are OK standalone. Move the lib_AFLT_xxx and obj_AFLT_xxx .bgls from your airport folder into an empty folder enabled in your Scenery Library, disable your airport and any other scenery affecting the area and see whether the lights return to the correct position.

Don

 

[Captain7]

Hi Don,

Thanks for your feedback and sorry for the missing info but as you assumed I'm using FSX and I have the latest Version '04' of AFLT installed.
No, I did not change you models in any way, the MCX window shows my custom runway edge light model just to show that the attach point is positioned correctly. On the bottom of the screenshot you see a REIL bar created from one of your demo array def files with the original base models. The runway edge lights are created with my custom model. Both show the same (about 30cm) offset from the attach point position.
Regarding any possible misconfiguration in my FSX installation/settings: I use a pretty default FSX installation just for scenery development with very few payware addons installed . The only general sim configuration change I'm aware of is that use REX replacement textures which also include the light effect textures.
I'll try to restore to default textures and see if that might be the reason.

And as you suggested, PCL set to true switched off the edge lights during day

I'll post any findings about the offset issue if I find a solution ;-)

Cheers Volker

 

[gadgets]

Volker, please be sure to check that the issue wasn't introduced in V1.0.04. There's nothing new in that release that SHOULD have had such an effect, but "stranger things have happened".

Don

 

[Captain7]

Hi Don,

I restored the light textures to default but the offset is still present. For the edge lights you see in the image below I inserted in a correction factor in the types.txt . I created the edge light rows with an array def file and now half of the lights are correct but the other half there is an even larger offset than before.
If you like to check my files I attached all necessary MDL's, textures and def-txt files in a zip.

Thanks a lot,
bye Volker


BTW: I downloaded AFLT from your website (1.0.04) but the windows application info shows version 1.0.0.0

 

[gadgets]

Thanks for sending the models, Volker. I'm occupied with an AIFP issue at the moment, but will try and discover the source of the offset ASAp.

Incidentally, I don't bother setting the Windows application info since the version is always displayed in the title bar (and it's likely many users are unaware on the Windows information or how to retrieve it).

Don

 

[gadgets]

Volker, I replaced my runway edge lights with yours on one of the runways at my CYYJ. No problem - with the original Types.txt., i.e., the one that does not include any offset for the runway lights.

Since no one else seems to be experiencing such an issue and I can't duplicate it, I can only assume it is due to something on your system.

As you know, there is an internal interchange of the Y and Z axes in scenery items requiring several transforms to fully implement. Several years ago when I was first experimenting with custom airfield lighting and hand-editing the .asm files, I noticed that if I did not include the final necessary transform in one model, the next model to be executed has its axes interchanged externally. The model missing the final transform was unaffected. Perhaps something similar is going on in your system.

May I suggest you create a new scenery folder containing only your ADE .bgl, and necessary CVX files (e..g., the flatten) and the two lib_AFLT ... .bgls. No other ose lights.) This should be the only active folder in your Scenery Library above Propeller Objects. If the resulting custom lights are not offset in this arrangement, then it is just a process of elimination to determine which file is causing your grief. If the lights are still offset, I'm afraid I don't know anything else to suggest.

Don

 

[Captain7]

Hi Don,

thank you for taking your time helping me to solve my problem. Following your suggestion I turned everything off: unfortunately the result was the very same. BUT, after that I changed the geo coordinates in my def file to CYYJ, et voila: everything renders fine! No offset.
What happens if you compile my def file and go to EDBC?

Cheers Volker

 

[gadgets]

What happens if you compile my def file and go to EDBC?

I'll check and get back to you - but perhaps not until tomorrow.

Don

 

[gadgets]

I need your INI folder as well to be able to compile.

Don

 

[Captain7]

INI Folder Attached.

Bye Volker

 

[gadgets]

I am happy to report I have been able to duplicate your issue and that I think I know what is happening. If I convert your models to FS9 .mdl format (they don't all convert fully, but I'm sure you can fix that) and use the FS9.format models, there is no offset.

At this point, I have no idea whether the FSX-model processing is broken or whether its a problem brought about be using custom models. But, I will find out - eventually.

In the meantime, use FS9 models. (I doubt there's anything you need do that can't be accomplished with FS9 models.)

Don

 

[Captain7]

I'll proceed with FS9 models. Thanks Don

 

[gadgets]

I'm afraid the news is not good. After exhaustive testing, I can only conclude that the underlying problem is how FSX computes the location of objects attached to FSX-formatted models.

We do not see this problem in FS9. If we use FS9 models with FSX, we do not see the problem. The formats of FS9 and FSX .mdl files varies greatly. Consequently, FSX uses different positioning algorithms when interpreting FSX .mdls than it does with FS9 .mdls. That being said, the format of the attachpoint-related content of both FS9 and FSX .mdl file, (i.e., the ATTO block generated by AFLT) is identical - and does not contain any positioning data. Nothing that AFLT does affects position; the .mdl file specifies the position of any attachpoints. If a light displays at all, AFLT has done its job. The model data and the associated processing in FSX control the positioning of the attached object, i.e., the light(s).

When I initially developed AFLT, I had hopes it could be compatible with P3Dv2. That's why AFLT permits use of FSX .mdl files. However, that hope has now been dashed. Based on its recent announcement, Lockheed Martin will remove compatibility with legacy (FS8/9) technology from its next release, so AFLT cannot be made compatible with P3D - at least not using BGL_LIGHTs or SEPARATION_PLANEs - and LM has not announced any replacement technology. So, the only pressing reason to use FSX .mdls is gone.

I know of nothing that can be accomplished in AFLT using FSX models that can't be accomplished with FS9 .mdls. Accordingly, users who experience light positioning problems when using FSX .mdls should replace them with FS9 counterparts.

Don

 

[Sierra.Foxtrot-Design]

Hi Don,

First i want to thank you for this amazing tool. Finally i can create my custom runway lightning.

But i have an similar problem with the bgl light offset on my custom light models.
I'm using your last release version 1.1.03 and FSX.

The big thing is my models are FS9 exported models and not FSX models where Volker has the problem with.

After creating the attachpoint through mcx with the right name to my model and succesfully compiled my array and librarys with AFLT the bgl light sits on ground and is not centered to the light bulb. I have also checked my light model in the types textfile is centered to 0/0/0.
But i can adjust the offset through the xyz axis in the types.

All your stock base models working well without problems. Only my custom models have the offset problem.

What i'm missing here?

Stan

 

[robystar]

Could it be that the reference point of the models in question is not in the center of the model and that that is what gives the offset? Just wondering.

 

[Sierra.Foxtrot-Design]

No the pivot of my gmax models is centered to 0/0/0 in gmax.

Stan

 

[Sierra.Foxtrot-Design]

I made a Picture to show the Problem more clear.

 

[gadgets]

Stan, I'm away from my development system and will be for the next couple of weeks. However, from the screenshot, the problem appears to be that your Y and Z axes are interchanged. At this point, I have no way of knowing whether the problem is mine or your model. But, do have a close look at your model.

If the problem still exists in early-mid-May, please post again.

Don

 

[Sierra.Foxtrot-Design]

Thanks for your reply Don. You put me in the right direction. I got the model working but the axis problem still exists. The BGL Light is only in the right location when i set the attach point on the Y axis in mcx.