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P3D Version 3.4.14 Landclass bleeding through .bgl's

Discussion in 'Prepar3D' started by astaticmusic, 30 Nov 2016.

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  1. astaticmusic

    astaticmusic

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    The Once solid textures/images of my .bgl photoreal ground textures are now bleeding some kind of landclass through, looks like very large grass, and its showing though all ground .bgls

    I just noticed this upon updating to version 3.4.14

    anybody have any ideas on this or how to fix this?? Thanks for looking!!!

    EDIT: appearantly they were never completely solid, as a little closer inspection has revealed

    Screenshot_1.jpg Screenshot_2.jpg
     
    Last edited: 30 Nov 2016
  2. astaticmusic

    astaticmusic

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    here is a shot from FSX. I guess mabey it was not so noticable when the landclass/whatever it is - coming through looks more like stone, rather than large grass. Is there a way to get rid of it altogether? mabey sbuilder?
    I wanna say - I'll bet Gary knows something!! ;)
    Screenshot_3.jpg
     
  3. astaticmusic

    astaticmusic

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    Here it is easy to see how at aerosofts EDDF they somehow cut out the landclass/whatever it is/default textures from showing though the airport grounds.
    Does anyone know how to do this??
    I tried xbuilder to either change it to 1. sand (that would be better than grass) but IDEALLY just erase it from the area period!!
    Screenshot_4.jpg
     
  4. GaryGB

    GaryGB

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    Hello:

    In the event that I might be the "Gary" you were referring to.... ;)

    When making a custom photo-real aerial imagery BGL via FSX / P3D SDK Resample, the Blend Mask gray scale values used in the "Blend channel" of the INF file must be either less than - or more than- 128 out of 256 possible steps in the scale spectrum of the separate 8-bit gray scale TIF file, or (1 of) the Alpha channel(s) of the 24-bit aerial imagery source data file itself, to control whether portions of the underlying land (or water) class texture image shows through to the top; this can also determine whether Autogen objects annotated onto underlying land class layers may 'pop through'.


    You may wish to review this info:

    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/are-blend-masks-working-properly-in-p3dv2.433786/

    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-error.427351/

    https://www.google.com/#q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com++GaryGB+Blend+Mask+gray+scale


    BTW: If use of a super-imposed Detail1.BMP file was enabled, the same mechanism cited above would control visibility of that as well.


    It is also possible that P3D implements some further display parameters for Detail1.BMP.:pushpin:

    https://stevesfsxanalysis.wordpress.com/2015/11/28/fsx-detail-texture-aka-grass/


    Hope this helps ! :)

    GaryGB
     
    Last edited: 2 Dec 2016
  5. astaticmusic

    astaticmusic

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    Hey! Thanks Gary (you are the Gary :)

    I will look at my settings again, i thought i had it set differently....
     
  6. astaticmusic

    astaticmusic

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    OK. One solution is to simply turn off "land detail textures" but it tends to make the ground textures blocky and pixelated.
    Iguess the best way to ask this question is - How to turn off ground detail textures for only the area of the airport where the custon ground photo bgl is?

    These shots are exactly what i want to see for the asphalt and concrete areas, basically the whole airport area, I can also add custom textures where there is grass, etc... - but outside the bounds of my custom poly - mabey the user would prefer to see the ground detail textures. So "how to turn them off for only the custom bgl area"?

    Screenshot_5.jpg Screenshot_6.jpg
     
  7. GaryGB

    GaryGB

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    Hi again:

    Because the Detail1.bmp file is a seamless, repetitively tiling texture which is super-imposed on top of all ground-type land class textures in the FS world at run time (and is to be distinguished from hydro-type water class textures), one must use a FS SDK Resample Blend Mask source that has no transparency in the portions of the aerial imagery where you do not wish to have either the default land class and/or Detail1.bmp textures showing through to the top.


    You may wish to review the linked content in this thread:


    "the alpha channel, isn't visible but acts as a mask to make certain areas of the image transparent in software that recognizes alpha channels.

    And because this alpha channel is 8-bit, 256 levels, it can have 256 levels of transparency from black/100% transparent to white/100% opaque.
    "


    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-error.427351/#post-649137


    ...and:


    "masks are just regular 8-bit grayscale TIFF files (not GeoTIFF, although those would work too). Unfortunately, you can't use 8-bit grayscale BMP files with Resample but TIFFs work great.

    Here are a few things to keep in mind about the land/water masks. White (255) is land; black (0) is water. If you want the default water color to show through, you must paint entirely black (RGB=0,0,0) pixels into the source image containing the color channels.
    "


    ...also:


    "If you'd rather just see the default water colors, you have to use a blend mask to punch a hole in your image to reveal the default textures below. Note, however, that the default textures revealed by the blend mask might not be water; they could very well be land textures!"


    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-error.427351/#post-649156



    Hope this helps a bit more ! :)

    GaryGB
     
    Last edited: 2 Dec 2016
  8. HolgerSandmann

    HolgerSandmann Resource contributor

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    Hi guys,

    Gary, I'm not sure I understand correctly but I'm not aware of any method to prevent the detail1.bmp to be displayed on top of photoreal .bgl files (other than unchecking the "Land detail textures" checkbox in Options > Settings > Display > Scenery).

    I have plenty of photoreal files with full-white blendmasks and they all get fully covered by that semitransparent overlay (easy to cross-check in the sim via the "Land detail textures" checkbox). I'm pretty sure that's by design as it's simply meant to be a "white-noise" overlay to improve the apparent detail of the landclass or photoreal sources. Using detail1.bmp replacements as high-contrast "grass" or "cracked concrete" or similar is misleading anyway as it'll get displayed on dunes, glaciers, fields, and any other land surface globally.

    Only custom surfaces placed on top of the terrain textures, like (ADE) runways, taxiways, aprons, and ground polys, will not receive the detail1.bmp overlay. If using those elements are not an option for the scenery in development then suggesting that users stick with a generic, low-contrast version of detail1.bmp (like the default file) will at least prevent odd overlays as in the first screenshot above.

    Cheers, Holger
     
  9. GaryGB

    GaryGB

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    Hi Holger:

    Thanks for the "heads-up", as it has been a long time since I tinkered with Detail1.bmp, and now that you mention it, that certainly makes sense for it to appear on top of custom photo-real aerial imagery made via FS SDK Resample ...since that scenery type is inherently a special form of "land class" texture. :scratchch


    Probably for the OP troubleshooting scenario above, I should instead have mentioned the option to utilize non-land class texture types for the airport ground surfaces.:duck:



    Personally, I never use Detail1.bmp, but I should properly have also mentioned that option to enable / disable it via the FS menu GUI as you so kindly explained above. :pushpin:


    Many thanks for posting that important clarification regarding use / non-use of Detail1.bmp, and the additional pertinent "details" regarding when / where / how it is displayed ...for this otherwise rather 'under-documented' feature. :)

    GaryGB
     
    Last edited: 2 Dec 2016
  10. astaticmusic

    astaticmusic

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    Hi Guys,
    THanks for commenting, as this is definately a issue with not much available info for. I wonder how would one replace that "default" texture for a certain area. Id much rather have a plain texture such as sand or whatever, than seeing grass under my custon polys.
    I dont have a blend mask on in my .inf file btw.
    Thanks!!!
     
  11. sharmes6

    sharmes6

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    Hi,

    I'm not sure, but I think that large grass "detail1.bmp" may be from the recently released REX World Airports HD package, as I have had the same since installing that, and I remember an option to install it. There are many options for replacements. ORBX has their Aero tool which allows for different scales of an asphalt texture, Drzewiecki Design has a package with snow or grass, and these options would all replace the default detail1.bmp. You should be able to browse the web for a copy of the default detail1.bmp, which may be less obtrusive. Otherwise the best option is to probably disable detail1.bmp.

    I do really like the REX grass texture, but it's obviously only good when it's overlayed on what is meant to be grass. The reason I came across this thread tonight is that I was searching for a solution to the grass texture overriding a watermask on an airport's PR. I may just be disabling the land detail checkbox.


    Edit:

    Actually I have just discovered that the issue I mentioned above was caused by a higher res PR overlaying a lower res PR and no actual watermask, so the higher res PR was somehow showing through when I was above it, displaying the PR water which hadn't been masked or cut out for some reason.

    Cheers,
     
    Last edited: 26 Jan 2017
  12. astaticmusic

    astaticmusic

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    Hi,
    Where do you find the detail1.bmp file?
    If it's just a .bmp then we could replace it with another one, less obtrusive. Perhaps?
     
  13. sharmes6

    sharmes6

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    It's in the root folder Scenery/World/Texture. There are a lot of different versions to try online, mostly freeware, but I don't like the repeating pattern effect any of them leave on PR, particularly on plain PR such as snow or sand, it is really noticeable. The problem is also exaggerated if you increase the max texture size in the fsx.cfg or p3d.cfg to 2048 or 4096. The detail does look good up close, but not on the wrong PR base, and as I say not on snow or sand photoreal.

    I found the grass texture to be a bit more acceptable as a lot of addon airports now have their own ground poly, so the taxiways, aprons and runways will not be affected, but any surrounding grass areas will show the grass detail1.bmp overlay. On some airports it looks great.

    I'm not sure of how it's done, but some developers have created PR using gmax or 3dsmax which is not affected by the detail1.bmp. The PR is imprinted on to texture files rather than in bgls. I have seen tutorials showing how to do this, probably here on fsdeveloper.

    One example of this method is Max Kraus' airport on the Gold Coast. ybcg_v100.zip on Avsim.

    Cheers,
     
  14. astaticmusic

    astaticmusic

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    I will let you know when I get a chance to make a new one, I need to do it soon. I think a nice detailed gravel type, very small, might do the trick. Needs to look good under asphalt and grass.
    Thanks!!
     
  15. GaryGB

    GaryGB

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    Hi again:

    On a practical basis, one will not see all the detail otherwise visible via the Detail1.BMP file unless one's user aircraft is on- or near- the ground itself. ;)


    If there are areas of terrain within the airport boundary where you wish to- and are objectively 'able' to- see more "detail" on- or near- the ground itself, IIUC, the way to enable that detail is to either use a very high resolution "synthetic" custom photo-real texture layer with a partially transparent attribute super-imposed over an underlying lesser-resolution custom photo-real aerial imagery layer ...both of which are made via FS SDK Resample.

    Alternatively, one would have to utilize very high resolution textures mapped onto custom Ground Polygons (aka "G-Polys" or "GP's") made as non-MDL 3D objects via FS2002 / FS8 SCASM / ASM methods for FSX, and/or made as a MDL-based 3D objects via P3D v2.x / 3.x with Z-Bias Material properties using P3D SDK XtoMDL methods for P3D.


    Otherwise, when land class textures are used (including any custom photo-real textures made via FS SDK Resample which are also a special type of 'land class'), Detail1.BMP will ultimately be displayed on top.


    As Holger and Scott pointed out above, regardless of which version of Detail1.BMP is used, it is difficult to "minimize" its display in areas where one does not want it to be seen. :alert:


    IMHO, it would be a more effective use of one's time to utilize very high resolution custom photo-real textures made via FS SDK Resample mapped onto areas of the airport where one wishes to see the terrain texture detail otherwise not visible unless one's user aircraft is on- or near- the ground itself.

    Whether that method or G-Polys are used, MIPMAPs / LODs will determine what is visible from the user aircraft as a function of one's distance from the textured ground polygon or aerial imagery terrain quad "tile". :pushpin:


    If you do wish to add more sophisticated surface attributes to textures displayed on G-Polys, I would recommend considering the methods discussed by Pete Beeby ...here:

    https://www.google.com/#q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+GaryGB+"Pete+Beeby"

    [EDITED]

    Of particular interest, IMHO, is Pete's described work-flow of using a very high resolution "synthetic" custom photo-real texture mapped onto a G-Poly with a partially transparent attribute super-imposed over an underlying lesser-resolution custom photo-real aerial imagery layer made via FS SDK Resample. :idea:

    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/hi-res-ground-polygon-grass.435074/

    [END_EDIT]


    Hope this helps a bit more ! :)

    GaryGB
     
    Last edited: 27 Jan 2017

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