• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

FSX and Ultimate Terrain Canada and US

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229
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ca-ontario
Gary
Just gat a response to my E-mail to SimForrum on the Lake Huron question
Thanks for the report. Unfortunately as far as I am aware there are no plans for any future bug fix releases for the UTX series of products. The core development of FSX itself stopped in 2009, and even the Steam version of it released in 2014 has had no fixes for a long time. This leads to no commercial viability to produce new bug fix versions of third-party add-ons which were released in that similar timeframe.

Jeff
 
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7,450
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us-illinois
Gary
I already have a link to that Ontario topographical map.
I did notice that it has 5 m intervals in this location, while around Trout lake it has 10 m intervals. And as I said, if you zoom in close enough, you get water elevation.


View attachment 86915

You will see that right at the dam you have 124 m. but also notice the contour line going across the water , indication the big drop in the water at the dam. A bit further upstream it shows 152 m (upper right corner)
Because they only show up at this lower zoom, you need to pan the map till you find them.

Regarding the Ontario topographical map linked above:

As you may know, Red contour lines pertain only to land, and Blue alphanumeric text pertain only to water surface ...Altitude.

Indeed, there is a drop in the water surface Altitude from above the dam to below the dam.

However, water Altitude values shown on the Topo map immediately below the dam are based on a underwater concrete 'chute' level.


In the new LiDAR HRDEM:

https://search.open.canada.ca/openmap/957782bf-847c-4644-a757-e383c0057995

* the water 'channel' below the dam along the North shoreline shows an Altitude of 112 Meters

* the upstream water above the dam shows an Altitude of 157 Meters

157 - 112 = 40 Meters
water drop at Des Joachims power generating station dam.


Regarding your PDF diagrams attached above and the Ontario topographical map linked above:

In Hydro polygon areas depicted by your images, there is only a terrain slope under water, which would not show in FSX at run time underneath a level Hydro polygon:

https://web.archive.org/web/20161017203115if_/http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/44764527.jpg

44764527.jpg


44764531.jpg


3155010362_dfb569902e_o_d.jpg

At any rate, going back to the top with that topographical map, any way of showing this website as background to SBuilderX?


The above linked / depicted online Ontario CA Topo map disclaimer says:

"Note: The technology to convert the maps on this page to an accessible format is not currently available. These maps may not be compatible with screen reader software. If you are unable to access these maps please contact pmu@ontario.ca"


But, not to worry, as there may be other Topo sources available from Canadian government agencies or other GIS entities.


IIUC, you are looking for Hydro surface elevations, so you should be able to use both DEM / DTM and CanVec sources in QGIS to view and format *.SHP source data for directly making more accurate replacement water bodies without manual tracing of background map imagery.

You should also be able to directly Append CanVec *.SHP files derived from CvxExtractor to SBuilderX to create CVX vector BGLs to replace original UTXCan BGLs as needed.


Otherwise, you can Open such *.SHP files and/or *.KML / *.KMZ files in Google Earth Desktop Edition (aka "GE"):

https://www.google.com/earth/versions/#download-pro


After creating Polygon / Poly-line objects in GE, you can save out *.KML files. then convert them to *.BLN via rhumbaflappy's KML2BLN.

The *.BLN files can then be Appended to SBuilderX.


If you do not install detailed terrain mesh, you can still increase TMVL in FSX.Cfg so FSX' terrain grid allows closer terrain vertex intervals.

GaryGB
 
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7,450
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us-illinois
Gary
Just got a response to my E-mail to SimForrum on the Lake Huron question

AFAIK, since P3Dv5 updated its CVX content to utilize what IIUC, may have been the same data sources as licensed by Scenery Solutions' UTX, the market for UTX has maxed out for prior versions of FSX and P3Dv1.4x through P3Dv4.5x.

So, apparently you need to make your own FS2Kx corrected scenery content through the methods discussed in this thread. ;)

Perhaps you might even share your fixes with the FS2Kx Community when you are finished ? :idea:

GaryGB
 
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229
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ca-ontario
Gary
On the subject of Lake Huron, I expected that king of response, but I had to try (again).
Now that I know how to do it, I might just do my own fix, but this might be for nest winter.
For now, I want to work on the route from Georgian Bay to Montreal going by Mattawa River and Ottawa River River.

I have a question on drawing new polygons. How to you match a point from existing to new polygon?
I know that on AutoCAD, I can use the "snap" to go to right on to an existing intersection. Is there something like that for SBuilder, or do I just zoom right down to the closest zoom and drag it to as close as possible to the other polygon?
I did find out that I can't start a new polygon of the point of an existing polygon'

As for the maps and all the stuff, I will need much "regurgitating" to make full sense of it.
From what I gather, going from Google Earth to KLM to BLN, is only to get the lakes contours closer to real life. I thikg UTX did a faily good job of this, but were they did not, then this will be usefull.
Just found were to go to download the shape files from CanVec.
Testing this out to see what I get. Waiting for download to finish on the 50K ON Elevation shp files and see what I have
Already downloaded the 250K ON Hydro. Cool!!!

Michel
 
Messages
7,450
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us-illinois
Gary
On the subject of Lake Huron, I expected that kind of response, but I had to try (again).

Now that I know how to do it, I might just do my own fix, but this might be for next winter.

For now, I want to work on the route from Georgian Bay to Montreal going by Mattawa River and Ottawa River.

I noticed Killarney has new satellite imagery available now (but not new elevation data ...yet).

AFAIK, your route does not pass near that location.

I have a question on drawing new polygons. How to you match a point from existing to new polygon?
I know that on AutoCAD, I can use the "snap" to go to right on to an existing intersection. Is there something like that for SBuilder, or do I just zoom right down to the closest zoom and drag it to as close as possible to the other polygon?
I did find out that I can't start a new polygon off the point of an existing polygon.

SBuilderX Polygon or Line Tool mode has special functions available ...if we are actively using Line or Polygon edit "mode"

For details on these special functions within SBuilderX accessible from:

* Right-click context menu

...and/or:

* letter Key presses

...refer to the SBuilderX 'Help' *.CHM file via:

SBuilderX Menu > Help > {Search Tab} query string: Polygon > click: "Working with Points, Lines and Polygons".


Also refer to the info in the latter part of this post in another thread:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/steep-sided-islands.445660/post-825526


Of particular note is SBuilderX developer Luis Sa' tutorial video (ShockWave Flash format) showing 'clipping' to terrain quad borders:

http://www.ptsim.com/sbuilderx/videos/normans.swf

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/nice-island_no-mesh.427225/post-647843


https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en&ei=-BybWvD_EovajwOhi53YBw&q=site:+www.ptsim.com+SBuilder+line+polygon+copy+paste&oq=site:+www.ptsim.com+SBuilder+line+polygon+copy+paste&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.12...16050.22280..24989...0....372.1075.0j3j1j1..........1..mobile-gws-wiz-serp.n5QsuBqzGrg=


NOTE: MS Edge and Chrome reportedly can play .SWF ShockWave Flash files, but this may be disabled by security apps.

How to play a SWF ('Adobe ShockWave Flash') file in Windows Media Player

Change the default program for opening a .SWF file to Windows Media Player by:

1.) Right-click the .SWF file > Properties > General > Change > Windows Media Player.

2.) After this 'Windows file association' is done, Double-click .SWF files to play them in Windows Media Player.


But, in the mean time, generally speaking, if a CVX Vector object has been clipped at a LOD-9 / QMID-11 boundary, one must make a new object in the quad adjacent to the clipped object, so we must display the SDK Terrain quad grid to see where CVX objects start and end relative to quad borders.

If an object is not clipped, we should be able to select the end vertex point and edit it, provided we are using Line or Polygon edit "mode" within SBuilderX.

Also, SBuilderX has a snap to grid feature that moves vertex points to the nearest LOD-21 quad area point position, but IIRC it does not snap to a targeted existing nearby CVX object vertex point.

As for the maps and all the stuff, I will need much "regurgitating" to make full sense of it.
From what I gather, going from Google Earth to KLM to BLN, is only to get the lakes contours closer to real life. I think UTX did a faily good job of this, but where they did not, then this will be useful.

Hopefully you meant "Rumination" ...rather than ' hurling ' ! :rotfl:

Certain aspects of the GE vector drawing engine are convenient, as is the ability to scroll and work over large areas without having to download new tiles for maximum resolution zoom such as we have to do in SBuilderX.

Just found were to go to download the shape files from CanVec.
Testing this out to see what I get. Waiting for download to finish on the 50K ON Elevation shp files and see what I have
Already downloaded the 250K ON Hydro. Cool!!!

Michel

The CanVec multi-scale series is available as several resolutions based on a scale ratio, thus the smaller the scalar ratio, the more detailed the vector objects, and the larger the scalar ratio, the less detailed the vector objects.

https://ftp.maps.canada.ca/pub/nrcan_rncan/vector/canvec/doc/info.html#catalogue

NOTE: If FireFox has certain extensions installed, the above linked pop-up pages may need to be viewed using MS-Edge or Chrome


The downloadable files are located at:

https://ftp.maps.canada.ca/pub/nrcan_rncan/vector/canvec/shp/Hydro/


IIUC, the high resolution "50k" data is more likely to look best in FS.

GaryGB
 
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229
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ca-ontario
Gary

Hopefully you meant "Rumination" ...rather than ' hurling ' ! :rotfl:

Pardon my "french", What I meant is go over the information again and again until I can make some sense of it

On the Canvec issue, when I downloaded the 50K ON Elevation file, I manage to append 1 of 3 files (northern Ontario, way above what I need) The other 2 would not load and I suspect it has something to do with the size of the file being too much for my system to handle.
So thsn I downlosded the 250K elevation. That worked. I know this is what i need IF i want to do terrain modification at a latter date
So I am trying to go thru the process of ordering a "clipped" area in the 50K size. Just waiting for E-mail to cone in to see if this works,

Michel
 
Messages
7,450
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us-illinois
Gary

Pardon my "french", What I meant is go over the information again and again until I can make some sense of it

On the Canvec issue, when I downloaded the 50K ON Elevation file, I manage to append 1 of 3 files (northern Ontario, way above what I need) The other 2 would not load and I suspect it has something to do with the size of the file being too much for my system to handle.
So then I downloaded the 250K elevation. That worked. I know this is what i need IF i want to do terrain modification at a latter date
So I am trying to go thru the process of ordering a "clipped" area in the 50K size. Just waiting for E-mail to come in to see if this works,

Michel

You can load large 50k *.SHP files in QGIS, then select needed areas, and extract smaller segments to be exported for use by SBuilderX. :idea:

We do this with the large *.SHP files distributed by Geofabrik.de for Open Street Map vector data. ;)

GaryGB
 
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229
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ca-ontario
Gary
File received and It does contain quite a bit of information.
There is however a couple of .shp file that SBuilder can not open. I am prety sure these are some sort of text files that would tell me what is the "elevation point" of the elevation lines and what are the "hydro obstacle" like dams and rapids.
Any thoughts on how I could open up that information?
These are the files extensions of the 2 files I can;t open: .cpg, .dbf, .prj, .sbn, .sbx, .shp, .shx.
If all fails, I will compare with the map on the web.
Other than that what I can open is
Contour, Hydro obstacle, Water linear flow (although there are no arrows to indicate direction), Water bodies and watercourse.
 
Messages
7,450
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us-illinois
Gary
File received and It does contain quite a bit of information.
There is however a couple of .shp file that SBuilder can not open. I am pretty sure these are some sort of text files that would tell me what is the "elevation point" of the elevation lines and what are the "hydro obstacle" like dams and rapids.

Any thoughts on how I could open up that information?

These are the files extensions of the 2 (50k ? :scratchch) files I can't open:

.cpg, .dbf, .prj, .sbn, .sbx, .shp, .shx.

If all (else) fails, I will compare with the map on the web.

Other than that, what I can open is:

Contour, Hydro obstacle, Water linear flow (although there are no arrows to indicate direction), Water bodies and watercourse.

Hi Michel:

A ESRI Shape (aka "*.SHP") file is a 'meta-file' that consists of 3 -or- 4 parts: a SHP, DBF, SHX ...and in some versions, a XML file;
note that 'other' optional files may also accompany a *.SHP file.

To open a *.SHP in a GIS enabled application such as QGIS, one only loads the *.SHP, and not its accompanying files.:

https://gisgeography.com/arcgis-shapefile-files-types-extensions/


The *.prj file contains the GIS projection (aka "CRS" or Coordinate Reference System info for the GIS file (in this case a *.SHP file)

This may be expressed as EPSG numbers; FS SDK requires source data to be in EPSG:4326


CvxExtractor *.SHP GIS data must be 'reprojected' from EPSG:4326 to be 'unwarped' ...as EPSG:3857 for SBuilderX tile map use.


Elevation / Altitude for vertex points in a 3D *.SHP is stored in the *.DBF (aka "dBase") file, but ...this should not be accessed directly.

Instead, the Altitude data attribute for the *.SHP should be viewed in a GIS application like:

* QGIS (free):

https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/download.html

...or:

* Global Mapper (payware).

https://www.bluemarblegeo.com/global-mapper-download/


Even if a *.SHP file contains a lot of (unwanted for FSX ? ) info, I am not certain if *.SHP attributes are Appended by SBuilderX ...beyond:

* X,Y,Z (Latitude, Longitude, Altitude) for vertex points ('vertices' =plural)

...and:

* GUID (--for Polygon / Polyline object land or water class definition in [FSX_install_path]\Terrain.Cfg file)



Regarding the CanVec data:

https://ftp.maps.canada.ca/pub/nrcan_rncan/vector/canvec/doc/info.html#catalogue

https://ftp.maps.canada.ca/pub/nrcan_rncan/vector/canvec/doc/info.html#

NOTE: If FireFox has certain extensions installed, the above linked pop-up pages may need to be viewed using MS-Edge or Chrome



Regarding 'Metadata' for the CanVec 50k files:


FYI: There are several such pages for "Water Bodies" linked from the top page cited above.

Here is a direct link to example Metadata page URLs that work in FireFox:

https://ftp.maps.canada.ca/pub/nrca...B_EXPL_ESSIM_50K_Hydro-sd-en.html#div-1160009

https://ftp.maps.canada.ca/pub/nrca...B_EXPL_ESSIM_50K_Hydro-sd-en.html#div-1160002

https://ftp.maps.canada.ca/pub/nrca...B_EXPL_ESSIM_50K_Hydro-sd-en.html#div-1169992

GaryGB
 
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Gary
I started working on fixing my lake levels, so I did an "exclude file" by changing all polygons that I wanted to exclude to "Exclude all water polygons" rather than drawing a bunch of polygons intersecting the polygons I want to remove. At the time it seemed like a better way as they are so many polygons for lake Nipissing and some of therm are so small thet if I try to draw polygones to catch them all. I am sure to miss some.

The funny thing is that come of the water polygons that is no way connected to any of the polygons I am removing and that I had deleted from my SBuilder file because I did not want to remove then, have been deleted. What puzzle me is that it is not a consistent occurrence.

1678415031780.png


In FSX
1678415201603.png


Can you explain?

Michel
 
Messages
7,450
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us-illinois
Gary
I started working on fixing my lake levels, so I did an "exclude file" by changing all polygons that I wanted to exclude to "Exclude all water polygons" rather than drawing a bunch of polygons intersecting the polygons I want to remove. At the time it seemed like a better way as they are so many polygons for lake Nipissing and some of therm are so small that if I try to draw polygons to catch them all. I am sure to miss some.

The funny thing is that some of the water polygons are in no way connected to any of the polygons I am removing and that I had deleted from my SBuilderX file because I did not want to remove them, have been deleted. What puzzles me is that it is not a consistent occurrence.

View attachment 87007

In FSX
View attachment 87008

Can you explain?

Michel

Hi Michel:

While custom water polygons are most commonly going to be subject to clipping at LOD-11 boundaries due to the default SDK SHP2VEC compiler CVX vector XML parameter values used, the custom content in FSX and UTXCan may have been generated using larger quad sizes, so you must first inspect them in SDK TMFViewer to see what mix of quad grid sizes actually apply to water polygons ...before CvxExtractor derivation / being Appended to SBuilderX.

Generally speaking, in large water bodies, a mix of larger LOD sized quads are used, and only when more detailed modifications of water polygons are required along shoreline areas of terrain, a mix of increasingly smaller quads will be used, down to a minimum of LOD-9 / QMID-11 in size.


So, IIUC, results may vary with excluding polygons having the same targeted GUID, over the extent of a quad larger than LOD-9 / QMID-11 in size ...because it was originally authored with a larger assigned "clip" attribute. o_O


For example, you may recall I pointed out that UTXCan utilized a LOD-6 Area quad clip level rather than the default LOD-5 Area quad clip level:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/fsx-and-ultimate-terrain-canada-and-us.456742/post-912448


To see what the actual quad sizes are for Hydro polygons in a custom CVX vector BGL file, load it into TMFViewer without any grid displayed.

Next, in TMFViewer Menu > View > Vector Data > Polygons > un-check "Fill"; note the 'mix' of actual quad 'clip' sizes used for Hydro polygons.

fsx_cvx2615_lake_nipissing-tmfviewer_view_vectors_polys_filled_on-jpg.87016


fsx_cvx2615_lake_nipissing-tmfviewer_view_vectors_polys_filled_off-jpg.87017


GaryGB
 

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  • FSX_CVX2615_Lake_Nipissing-TMFViewer_View_Vectors_Polys_Filled_OFF.jpg
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Gary
UTX has a different clipping location that what you is shown on the one you show. They have a whole lot more smaller squares.
But I don't think the problem is dependent on where the "squares are as some of the missing lakes seem to be just outside of the squares and some of the ones that are within a square have not disappeared.
At any rate, this is not a big issue. Another issue that came up that is also puzzling is islands that are not thee after I exclude and redo at different elevations. In my SBuilder file, the "hole" in the polygon where the island is located is there, but somehow, I believe the connection between the "hole" and the polygon might have been disassociated. Again, not a big issue.
I have been progressing in my project to get the Mattawa and Ottawa river fixed up. Coming along pretty good,

I ordered a paper topographical map to see if there might be more info on it. As for most of the information I can see clearer on the web mabs, I have just notice on thing. The lake elevation are s slightly different that he elevation shown on the web map.

At any rate, I want to thank you very much for you patience and your help

I might come back to the forum latter is I decide to try to fix those "flat" island and shoreline.

As for my "locks" that I would like to attempt, I fear that I need to abandon the thought. I had posted back in 2015 about this and did not get any response. I did a search again the other day on the "carrier elevators" and there are very few posts. And one of the post that seems to have resolved it involved more programs that I don't have.

Again, thank you very much

Michel
 
Messages
7,450
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us-illinois
Gary
UTX has a different clipping location than what is shown on the one you show. They have a whole lot more smaller squares.
But I don't think the problem is dependent on where the "squares" are as some of the missing lakes seem to be just outside of the squares, and some of the ones that are within a square have not disappeared.
At any rate, this is not a big issue.

Indeed, UTXCan used a somewhat different clip quad size for some of its content compared to FSX' default clip quad size for CVX BGL files.

IIUC, this can be specified by manually editing the default clip level from QMID-11 to whatever UTX requires, when one compiles the CVX vector source data edited in SBuilderX.

In the case of CVX vector water bodies that include flattens, there would be a FLX*.XML file generated.

When submitted by SBuilderX for compilation to BGL by SDK SHP2VEC compiler, SBuilderX outputs the source data into:

[SBuilderX install path]\Tools\Shapes.


So, if you pick an example water body, post the name here, perhaps we can see what is required in a custom FLX*.XML file to be placed in:

[SBuilderX install path]\Tools\Shapes

...folder along with the *.SHP and other source files, to duplicate the SDK SHP2VEC compiler BGL output with a clip level that UTXCan utilizes.


Another issue that came up that is also puzzling is islands that are not there after I exclude and redo at different elevations. In my SBuilderX file, the "hole" in the polygon where the island is located is there, but somehow, I believe the connection between the "hole" and the polygon might have been disassociated. Again, not a big issue.

I might come back to the forum later if I decide to try to fix those "flat" islands and shorelines.

SBuilderX' Hole, Parent Polygon, and Child Polygon concepts are sometimes challenging to grasp from available tutorials / help files.

Suffice it to say, if one segments CVX Water polygons to leave an opening / hole for an island, FSX' terrain mesh will 'pop up'.

Again, pick an example island, post the name here, and perhaps we can identify a workflow to allow its terrain mesh to be shown properly.


I have been progressing in my project to get the Mattawa and Ottawa river fixed up. Coming along pretty good,

I ordered a paper topographical map to see if there might be more info on it. As for most of the information I can see clearer on the web maps, I have just noticed one thing. The lake elevations are slightly different that the elevation shown on the web map.

IIUC, in some cases the elevations are older and may be based on topographical contours before Dams were put in place.

The CDEM 23 Meter elevation data may be used for reference in QGIS to verify more recent elevations compared to FSX' older terrain mesh derived from SRTM Space Shuttle Radar data viewed in TMFViewer.


At any rate, I want to thank you very much for your patience and your help

Glad I was able to help. :)

As for my "locks" that I would like to attempt, I fear that I need to abandon the thought. I had posted back in 2015 about this and did not get any response. I did a search again the other day on the "carrier elevators" and there are very few posts. And one of the post that seems to have resolved it involved more programs that I don't have.

Again, thank you very much

Michel

IIUC, you refer to this thread:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...al-ai-shipping-package-for-fsx.425633/page-15


Perhaps these may be the applications you were inquiring about, which were cited in that thread ? :idea:

AIFP = A.I. Flight Planner (free)

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/ai-flight-planner.100/


AIBTC = A.I. Boat Traffic Compiler (free)

https://web.archive.org/web/20181018044154/http://lc0277.gratisim.fr/boat


ModelConverterX (aka "MCX" = free)

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/modelconverterx.87/


It may indeed be possible to make an animated platform for a waterway 'lock' using aircraft carrier elevator methods.

Most developers export their 3D models for use in FSX via SDK compiler workflows, and/or via Arno's MCX.

GaryGB
 
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Gary
this can be specified by manually editing the default clip l........

Are you saying that the QMID can be changed before compiling? All I have been doing is revising each square generated by the UTX extracted shape files to this:

1679323086369.png


Then going to “general” tab and assigning new altitude.

For Lake Nippising, the squares ranged from QMID 13 to QMID 15. And there are times when the clip is not even on a QMID line’

In the case of the Ottawa River, it gets even worst. The splits between polygons are also along the Quebec/Ontario border.

In the case of CVX vector water bodies......

In what I am doing now, there is no “flattens” (if by this you mean terrain}. But I still get HPX.___.xml files.

So, if you pick an example water body, post the name here......

I am trying to keep my revisions simple. This process you are suggesting seems to complicate things. Is it really necessary to do any changes to the clip levels?

SBuilderX' Hole, Parent Polygon, and Child Polygon concepts

I understand the principle of adding a “hole” polygon and “attache” it to the main polygon to create the island. What I don’t understand is how I get to loose that association when all I do is create one file that “excludes” the water bodies then create a second file assigning new properties and elevation to that same polygon. And this only happens in about 1 to 5% of the time.

Would I need to send you my actual SBuilder files for you to examine?

IIUC, in some cases the elevations are older

I think it’s more like the web files take the information of top of water from google earth, while on the paper copies, the elevation was taken from the original NRC paper maps and converted to metric.

Here is what I am talking about. I am using top of water elevation for Trout Lake (East of North Bay) and Turtle Lake (East of Trout Lake). I know for a fact that Trout Lake flows into Turtle Lake.

On Google Earth with my units set to Ft for elevations, Trout lake is at 663ft (202.07m) and Turtle Lake is at 670 ft (204.20m)

On the web maps, Trout Lake is at 202m and Turtle Lake is at 204m

But on the paper maps, Trout Lakes shows 202+/- m and Turtle Lake shows 201 +/- m

Bottom line: for Flight Simmer, which what FSX is all about. Nobody really cares what the top of water elevations is as long as the profile looks good from the air. This is what UTX did. They matched the profile from Google map and as long as it followed somewhat the ground profile of whatever they original used for Flight Sim, it was good.
I am more picky (it's my O.C.D) and I want to get it right.
Here is another bit of information I found that gives me the top of water elevation above the various dams on the Ottawa River


For the locks, I am referring to this tread


The thread you are refering to is more about "AI" boat traffic configuration.

Most developers export their 3D models

I do have the MCX program. As for the “SDK compiler workflows”, is this part to the SDK package that comes with FSX?

You have givin me a glimpse of hope for my locks. But I imagine I would need to start by modeling up a lock in Gmax first.
This would require me to go find a copy of Gmax, as my original program is in my older computer which is inoperative.

Michel
 
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Hi Michel:

All the sub-topics discussed here in this thread are in principle, equally valid, and related to the overall topic of the OP as of its first post.

On a practical basis, however, to keeps threads more specific to pertinent sub-topics that can more easily be found by all interested readers during searches, it is generally regarded as preferable to sub-divide those sub-topic inquiries and discussion into separate threads.

Since this thread is on its 4th page of extent within this forum, we should probably make a focused effort to subdivide future sub-topics.

I shall now try to answer your latter queries in groups by sub-topic, with less detailed quotation of our prior statements and subsequent replies.


Are you saying that the QMID can be changed before compiling? All I have been doing is revising each square generated by the UTX extracted shape files to this:

...Then going to “general” tab and assigning new altitude.

For Lake Nippising, the squares ranged from QMID 13 to QMID 15. And there are times when the clip is not even on a QMID line’

In the case of the Ottawa River, it gets even worse. The splits between polygons are also along the Quebec/Ontario border.

In what I am doing now, there is no “flattens” (if by this you mean terrain). But I still get HPX.___.xml files.

I am trying to keep my revisions simple. This process you are suggesting seems to complicate things. Is it really necessary to do any changes to the clip levels ?

If you wish to maintain the UTXCan 'configurator' utility compatibility and to maintain run time rendering as intended by Scenery Solutions, you 'may' need to maintain and compile all edited CVX vector BGL content within the same identical quad and clip level structure.

Although FSX default merely clips all 'normal' content at LOD-9 / QMID-11 quad borders, and only HWY Traffic at LOD-13 / QMID-15, I assume Allen Kreisman and the Scenery Solutions team had specific reasons for how they structured the quad sizes and layers for UTXCan CVX vector BGLs.

That said, Doug Matthews of ACES inferred that the SDK SHP2VEC compiler was exceptionally robust as a SHP processing engine, and can utilize any specified mix of clip level, and include Poly-lines, Polygons, and Excludes all in the same BGL.

Default quad sizes are essentially an attempt to keep FSX run time LOD-5 Area content loading / rendering performance hit to a manageable level.

So, if you wish to experiment, we do know that FSX' own LOD-9 / QMID-11 and HWY Traffic at LOD-13 / QMID-15 quad size scheme works OK.

Thus if you also wish to simply use the default LOD-9 / QMID-11 quad clip for water polygons, feel free to test it and see if it works OK.

I assume that any replacement BGLs for the UTXCan BGLs will not work properly with the UTXCan configurator utility.

But if you keep the content of original UTXCan source CVX vector BGLs within the same coverage extents in derived / edited CVX vector BGLs, it is "possible" it may still render OK at run time in FSX, even though the internal clip levels may be FSX' default LOD-9 / QMID-11 ...instead of the clip level being identical to UTXCan.

I understand the principle of adding a “hole” polygon and “attache” it to the main polygon to create the island. What I don’t understand is how I get to loose that association when all I do is create one file that “excludes” the water bodies then create a second file assigning new properties and elevation to that same polygon. And this only happens in about 1 to 5% of the time.

Would I need to send you my actual SBuilder files for you to examine?

Please specify an island by name and/or Geographical coordinates, and perhaps we can step through creating one as a "worked example".

I think it’s more like the web files take the information of top of water from google earth, while on the paper copies, the elevation was taken from the original NRC paper maps and converted to metric.

Here is what I am talking about. I am using top of water elevation for Trout Lake (East of North Bay) and Turtle Lake (East of Trout Lake). I know for a fact that Trout Lake flows into Turtle Lake.

On Google Earth with my units set to Ft for elevations, Trout lake is at 663ft (202.07m) and Turtle Lake is at 670 ft (204.20m)

On the web maps, Trout Lake is at 202m and Turtle Lake is at 204m

But on the paper maps, Trout Lakes shows 202+/- m and Turtle Lake shows 201 +/- m

Bottom line: for Flight Simmer, which what FSX is all about. Nobody really cares what the top of water elevations is as long as the profile looks good from the air. This is what UTX did. They matched the profile from Google map and as long as it followed somewhat the ground profile of whatever they original used for Flight Sim, it was good.
I am more picky (it's my O.C.D) and I want to get it right.
Here is another bit of information I found that gives me the top of water elevation above the various dams on the Ottawa River


Remember that Google Earth uses older 90 Meter elevation data from the original NASA Space Shuttle radar scans, that has since been cleaned up and updated by correlation with other types of elevation data sets.

I woud instead use the CDEM data, and where available, the new tiles of LiDAR DEM / DTM data viewed in QGIS to get / set water surface elevations.

For the locks, I am referring to this tread


The thread you are referring to is more about "AI" boat traffic configuration.



I do have the MCX program. As for the “SDK compiler workflows”, is this part to the SDK package that comes with FSX?

You have given me a glimpse of hope for my locks. But I imagine I would need to start by modeling up a lock in Gmax first.
This would require me to go find a copy of Gmax, as my original program is in my older computer which is inoperative.

Michel

GMAX is still available for free ...here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/gmax-sdk.34/


IIRC, one may activate it without Discreet's website registration etc., even if FS9 is no longer installed; one may find this info on a FSDev forum query.

However, I think you may find it easier to 3D model by instead switching to either Sketchup or Blender, although that involves a new learning curve.

GaryGB
 
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Gary
You are correct as to the "subtopics". Once I get into those other area.s of my project, I will start new thread

As for my islands, with a bit of experimentation, I have succeeded in discovering the solutions to my problems.
I have discovered that if I do any alterations to the main polygon, the association of the "hole" for the island is lost. I therefore need to go to the island polygon, set it as "outer", then I need to go into "polygon' mode ad at that point I can click on the island polygon and set it as "hole" for the associated main polygon.

I have also mastered the "sloping water polygon" to handle the chutes and rapids. As for the "gentle" slope of the flowing river, I just drop the polygons by .1 meter at a time when crossing the QMID lines and make slight adjustment at the transitions to make it a bit smoother. Works fine.

Thanks for the info on the elevation issue. I have downloaded the QGIS. Now I juast need to read up on how this works

Thank you for the link on GMax. I will check it out later.

Michel
 
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