FSX CTD

[=rk=]

What are the 'Hotties'?

There's a shot with those red roofs...

Amphibs "float" above the water in slew mode because the static height is based on wheels down.

cheers,
Lane

What about the default avatar in P3D makes it float because it doesn't have any wheels and probably doesn't have anything that retracts? Also, the explanation about contact points does not account for the suspension shift documented above, which you or anyone can easily reproduce. Finally Bob would have to confirm, but the Beaver in his screen shot does not appear to be amphibious.

Based on the test and observations, a simulation of weight more closely explains why an airplane rises in slew mode than some manifestation of contact points, imo. What about slew mode would make wheel contact points relevant? I can think of nothing. What about slew mode would make the pilot weightless? The fact that he is about to start whipping around up, down, start, stop with no usual game physics interfering. Just a working theory, but it seems...postable.

 

[robystar]

What about the default avatar in P3D makes it float because it doesn't have any wheels and probably doesn't have anything that retracts?

I am tempted to reply to that one but I am afraid I will be banned for it .

 

[=rk=]

I am tempted to reply to that one but I am afraid I will be banned for it .

Well..you know they are already selling custom avatars, right?

and the avatar is modeled with eyeballs and teeth:

I want the Captain Jack Sparrow avatar or maybe Jake Sully as the blue critter thingy.

Ok, not really sure what sort of a rig/controller one would use to ambulate the avatar - I can say a Kinect 3d cam is sufficient to animate any normal (as in 35+ bones) game avatar to the fidelity of picking my nose - which is useless in the world of MSFS where no one should need more than 22 bones to ever model and animate anything associated with fight simulation. 22 bones works out to be: no toes, a stiff back, jointed only at hip and neck and one finger and thumb on each hand with one joint each for articulation. Barely enough to knock off a believable salute.

Anyways, assuming LM figures out a way to roll eyeballs, there will be a lot more "modeling" to do. Actually it will be mostly posing, do we know any good posers? Presumably someone is going to want an avatar with even more "slew lift" and someone is going to have to model that - Roby.

 

[robystar]

ell..you know they are already selling custom avatars, right?

They do? Or don't I get the joke?

Presumably someone is going to want an avatar with even more "slew lift" and someone is going to have to model that - Roby.

I tried that already as well but, you know, I am not very photogenic (My wife told me a long time ago: quote "your are not handsome and you do not have 'charme' but the fact that you have none of the two, is your 'charme' " unquote, so instead I put my dog in as an avatar .
But maybe we are digressing a little bit from the original CTD problem?

Cheers,

Sent at 01.32 PST (past sherry time)

PS: well, as long as Jon does not mind our babbling, it should be OK.
PS2 (so that you know it is me): spent almost 5 hours today on making a fence that disappears in the fog in FSX as well as in P3D.
PS3 (so that you really know it is me): I am not sure how to translate the word 'charme' as there is nothing in English that really covers the deeper meaning entirely.
PS4 (....): sorry for ranting.
PS5 (.......) Bob still has his CTD the minute he puts in some carrier flattens I made for him. But maybe that should be kept for another thread?

 

[=rk=]

They do? Or don't I get the joke?

INDIAFOXTECHO - MILITARY AVATARS PACKAGE FOR P3D V3
Ok Simmarket, you owe me some sort of endorsement perk.

CTD the minute he puts in some carrier flattens I made for him. But maybe that should be kept for another thread?

Well, do you think you can safely rule out the possibility that scenery flattens somehow trigger my phantom DEP that I keep harping on?

 

[jyarddog]

Those avatars look great. Yep- the hotties would be a nice addition to Cadiz scenery.

 

[Lane Street]

What about the default avatar in P3D makes it float because it doesn't have any wheels and probably doesn't have anything that retracts?

Can't comment on P3D, don't have it.

Bob would have to confirm, but the Beaver in his screen shot does not appear to be amphibious.

Where is Bob's screenshot?

What about slew mode would make wheel contact points relevant?

Nothing, model position in Slew Mode is defined by static_cg_height = and static_pitch = , though I will concede those aircraft.cfg entries are in the [Contact Points] section.

 

[robystar]

Well, do you think you can safely rule out the possibility that scenery flattens somehow trigger my phantom DEP that I keep harping on?

Well, yes (but not 100%). The ocean carrier flattens are at least 10 nm off, are in a seperate addon scenery folder, do not pose a problem for me and neither do when I put in the Cádiz scenery.
Bob's beaver is not known to me. Bob send a screenshot!

Nothing, model position in Slew Mode is defined by static_cg_height = and static_pitch = , though I will concede those aircraft.cfg entries are in the [Contact Points] section.

If the contact points are not OK an AI would jump up and down, would not sit on the surface or sink through.

 

[Lane Street]

If the contact points are not OK an AI would jump up and down, would not sit on the surface or sink through.

How do you slew an AI?

 

[=rk=]

Where is Bob's screenshot?

It was recorded by Roby post #9. Additionally the whole static_cg_height and static_cg_pitch does nothing to address the very obvious suspension pitch that is visible in most vehicles when transitioning from slew mode.

How do you slew an AI?

Add a panel and an aircraft.cfg is I think all it takes.

 

[Lane Street]

It was recorded by Roby post #9.

Two points, first is it looks OK to me and secondly, in post #14 Roby states that he is not in Slew- http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/fsx-ctd.437588/#post-746883

So how does this pertain to float planes sitting high in SlewMode?

Additionally the whole static_cg_height and static_cg_pitch does nothing to address the very obvious suspension pitch that is visible in most vehicles when transitioning from slew mode.

Never said it did, only that those values define what the 3D model looks like in Slew Mode.

BTW, you can adjust those values so the plane doesn't move when transitioning out of Slew Mode, except for amphibs which have two states for the wheels. There is no one value that will work for both states.

I also wonder why anyone would care what happens when you transition out of Slew Mode. As long as the plane doesn't shoot off at full throttle, it's all good.

Add a panel and an aircraft.cfg is I think all it takes.

OK, so you can alter an AI so it is a user plane, still doesn't answer the question, how do you slew an AI plane (not an AI being used as a user plane)?

Tag, you're it.

cheers,
Lane

 

[=rk=]

Two points, first is it looks OK to me and secondly, in post #14 Roby states that he is not in Slew- http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/fsx-ctd.437588/#post-746883

So how does this pertain to float planes sitting high in SlewMode?

It does not.

Amphibs "float" above the water in slew mode because the static height is based on wheels down.

cheers,
Lane

However it tends to not support your assertion that amphibs float because of wheels that aquatic planes that also float do not have.

Never said it did, only that those values define what the 3D model looks like in Slew Mode.

BTW, you can adjust those values so the plane doesn't move when transitioning out of Slew Mode, except for amphibs which have two states for the wheels. There is no one value that will work for both states.

Based on the evidence thus far gathered, I observe that the adjustment of those values will stop when transitioning from slew mode, upon the point where suspension compression has been simulated at full extent, therefore there is no evidence of the gravity shift when the pilot becomes weightless.

I also wonder why anyone would care what happens when you transition out of Slew Mode. As long as the plane doesn't shoot off at full throttle, it's all good.

To me it is a natural part of troubleshooting when the OP raises the issue that his afcad and possibly his entire build, by extension, is damaged as evidenced by his airplanes rising in slew mode, when this does not happen for Roby. I know you provided the answer that it is because of amphibious wheels, apologies but been there done that and we've even discovered new things along the way like the whole pilot/slew/cg shift thing. I have to say I wonder why you wouldn't want to explore it as well.

Off slew mode they settle down into the water properly.

I thought is was contact points but both ac's did this. Ergo.... something wrong with my afcad. I see no flattens in the area on my files. My afcad shows 0 alt, btw. pattern alt is 0 also. Water rwy.

OK, so you can alter an AI so it is a user plane, still doesn't answer the question, how do you slew an AI plane (not an AI being used as a user plane)?

Tag, you're it.

cheers,
Lane

That is pure semantics. I test AI planes, I test models I sell to clients, as first person user aircraft. In terms of testing what Roby asserted, the contact points would be identical. I do not slew AI's as active AI vehicles, nor did I make the assertion, nor do I see any value splitting homonyms in the interest of Bob's solution. Do you?

 

[jyarddog]

You don't slew an ai unless you choose it to fly. no panels etc. I guess.

The one I used was a float plane but it has wheels also. in slew it would come up off the water a few feet. off slew it would settle back down. This is as float plane. I then chose a default one but with the same texture sheets. It did the same thinig but very very little... then off slew it would settle back down. Ergo- most likely contact pint adjustment. This did not cause my initial problem. It is just something I noticed along the way.

You do not slew an AI cannot.... only I fit is chosen by you to fly.

 

[=rk=]

Bob was kind enough to send me his files and I do not have any problems. The aircraft sits on the water and no CTD's or whatever.
I must therefore conclude that there is another file active that makes the aircraft sit on a flatten of another scenery that I do not have and so does not interfere with this one.

Ok. Is the plane you tested? Because Roby reports it does not rise in slew mode. This plane appears to not be amphibious. If that is the case, then Roby did not test your files and Lane's assertion is valid through this test.

 

[robystar]

Morning (early to rise, early to shine),

No, that pic is not Bob's plane, it is mine and it is a float plane (no wheels, only floats).
I mentioned AI, not because you can slew it because you cannot, but because it gives you an idea whether the contact points are correct without having to take into consideration other (damping ratio, static compression) parameters in that section.
The point though, is that Bob had an error message from FSX the minute he put his scenery in, while I did not when trying out that scenery. He found some leftover flattens that made his float?/amphibian? plane sit above the water surface (not in slew mode) while my float plane did not. He got rid of them and that initially took care of the problem or so he thought until it happened again. He then figures that the ocean flatten for a static carrier I put there (more than 10 nm further on) could cause the problem as inactivating that folder remedied the error message upon starting FSX. Once again, I do not have that problem either.
So far for the summary of what is going on.

 

[=rk=]

Ok well the reason Bob's plane jumps in slew and your's doesn't has less to do with the problem and more to do with the fact that one has landing gear and one does not - at least according to Lane and in the absence of anything more substantial. If there is any issue, I apologize for believing the evidence at hand.
The discovery that exiting slew seems to place 175 lbs into the vehicle as if the pilot had been weightless and any shifts are a consequence of that change is fascinating, but otherwise useless here and in the absence of enthusiasm, I'll explore it on my own.

Ultimately Bob's system is still buggered. Ultimately my suggestion to re-install is still on the table as a way to insure Bob's simulator has been cleared of whatever makes it different from Roby's - choice of preferred float planes aside. I would like to ask that in testing from this point forward that you two use the exact within the limits of possibility same vehicle. Here is another solution/test: Bob can rename his install and then initiate a repair. The software will detect the registry entry and will install an entire new build into which you can gradually substitute the folders and files of Bob's original install. If you follow that path and the "new" FSX has trouble with flattens, this does not prove a DEP situation but would be a strong indicator. There is still the possibility that installed software aside from the OS affects the situation, like antivirus stuff maybe.

 

[jyarddog]

This might be, however, whether a planes has wheels or not sometimes planes done by some authors now and then might not have the contact points just right. Most floats that are default still jump but not very much whether they have wheels or not.

and this is not related to the orig problem, of course.
Now, I had that file called ocean flattens in for a long time. In this folder were three files each referring to one of 3 carriers, placed in various places. Only one was remotely close to Cadiz bay. A short time ago another friend said, "Let's do a float plane area over at Cadiz Bay, Spain." So, I went and did the new scenery and a nice photoreal and put in a few items here and there. Throughout the following weeks everything went fine... working on a few things on Cadiz here and there.... no hurry. Then with no warning at all .... all this happened.

In other words.... no problems... flatten or otherwise until weeks after I installed Cadiz. There were not other sceneries installed I between times. With the ocean flatten folder disabled things got fixed. I did find that ONE of the files in Ocean Flattens was the prime cause, but for now I just disabled it. Then with it disabled I re-enabled the thee carrier bgls pertaining to Ocean Flatten. All was well for a day or two and then WHAMMO problem returned. It seems one of those carriers also has a problem. I believe I know which carrier, but again I disabled all 3 just for now.
Never had this problem for years until I made Cadiz Bay.... with the Ocean Flattens folder still active. Even then all was normal. It is like my FSX took a few days to figure out it did not like the combo! I have no flattens anywhere else in this region of the world.... In fact no other sceneries of mine either.
I did consider that maybe something may be wrong with my FSX as you suggested; however, I disabled ALL sceneries except the defaults and Cadiz. No problems occurred. I then re-enabled each .... one by one until the problem re-occurred. Thi is how the problem showed up again as Ocean flattens and one of the carries caused it... on my machine.

Anyway.... your suggestions are something to keep in mind. Bob