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Help please - FSDS 3.5 & Scenery Objects

D

Dusty.M.J

Messages
36
Hello everyone

I've decided to take the plunge in modeling to see if I can add to the library of scenery objects that are available for FS2004, and learn modeling.

First off, I don't know anything about modeling whatsoever. I thought hard about what I was going to use, Gmax or FSDS. I went ahead and bought FSDS because of the compatability with both FS9/X, and because of recommendations.

Since installation I've been shaking my head asking why I bought it and didn't try Gmax (free) first. I'm mainly feeling this way due to not being able to find the right tutorials for MY uses. I want to build scenery objects (as a start) for FS2004. Problem is, I've searched everywhere. Google has been no luck either. All I'm finding are tutorials written around aircraft design.

I'm in hopes that someone here can guide me in the right direction to the tutorials I'm looking for.

Anyone?

Desperate to learn...

Dusty
 
Welcome to the madness that is modelling for flight simulator!

Have you gone through the basic FSDS tutorials (part of the help files)? Practically the FIRST tutorial is going through and modelling a water tower object and placing it in the Sim (at the ubiquitous Sea-Tac airport). (If anything, I thought that the FSDS Help file tutorials were biased in favor of scenery objects).

Modelling an object is no different than modelling an airplane (think of it - if you want to model an airplane as a static object, you just don't worry about animations).

For example, what are you trying to create, as your first object?

If you're going to find guidance and support for flightsim object modelling anywhere, you've come to the right place in fsdeveloper.com (Yes ScruffyDuck, even I will admit that fsdeveloper.com is better for scenery design than FreeflightDesign.com)
 
FelixFFDS said:
Welcome to the madness that is modelling for flight simulator!

Have you gone through the basic FSDS tutorials (part of the help files)? Practically the FIRST tutorial is going through and modeling a water tower object and placing it in the Sim (at the ubiquitous Sea-Tac airport).

(If anything, I thought that the FSDS Help file tutorials were biased in favor of scenery objects).

For example, what are you trying to create, as your first object?
Click to expand...

Hi Felix, thanks for the response.

No, I haven't built the water tower (yet) I immediately started looking for the needed tutorials so I could get a grip on what I'm about to get myself into. I wasn't having any luck at all. I totally agree with you on the help files.

As far as what I wanted to create? Well, I figured I'd start simple. My way of thinking if I've never done something before = (K.I.S.S =(Keep It Simple Stupid) But even starting off with that frame of mind, I'm already frustrated. I don't recall drafting and/or mechanical drawing being this bad.

I wanted to build a box. If all went ok, then, add a door. Then, if things were going right, add a roof. Kind of a trial and error approach of falling down the stairs...lol.:o

EDIT: Lesson One Complete



The one below was made using the BackDrop Method


I'm ready for lesson TWO. Pretty simple to be honest. I'm ready for the box, entrance, a couple extruded windows, and a roof. Not the airplane related stuff. Makes it hard to relate to when attempting to learn from aircraft tutorials
 
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Dusty, like Felix said, welcome to the maddness!!

My first advice is this, don't expect to pick up modeling overnight or even in a week or two. It's just too complex at first to learn quickly. My own experience with FSDS was similar to most modelers. At first, I was uber excited to dive right in and produce great looking objects. It didn't happen. In fact I got so frustrated, I deleted the shortcut to FSDS and let it fade into oblivion on my hard drive. Then about 6 months later I gave it another shot one day when I was bored. This time a funny thing happened, I actually started to "get it" and could make a few basic things. They were admitedly not very good but I had actually managed to model something. But after a few days of playing around with FSDS I again reached a learning plateau and put the program away again. I didn't go back to it for another 4-5 months. But this second time around, something had finally changed and I started to pick things up quickly. I went through the tutorials and started to experiment on my own.

So here I am, more than two years after first purchasing FSDS and I'm just now feeling confident about my modelling abilities. I have done several objects that I couldn't have done a year ago or even 6 months ago. Most of my knowledge has been gleamed from trial and error and from the few internet forums like this one (one of the best out there BTW).

There is so much to learn, so much that the FSDS tutorials do not tell you about. Mostly little nice to know things that make modeling parts easier and faster. Your experience will most likely be different from mine. Hopefully you will pick it up right away and with help start to get into the swing of things. But if you feel like you can't make anything worth while, give it a rest for a couple weeks and come back to it with a fresh mind. '

I think most modelers here would admit to a project or two that they had to put to the side for a while and come back to it to get it finished. Little breaks can do wonders. So don't get discouraged if it doesn't come naturally at first, that's actually a normal thing and is nothing to worry about.

Here's another good link for you to check out: http://www.abacuspub.com/adam/blog/ Adam has tutorial on how to make certain things and how to use some of the tricky functions of FSDS like the Boolean operation.

I think the community could benefit from another site or blog like this and I have been milling the idea around in my head for some time now. If I did a modeling site, it would be geared towards scenery modeling only as like you said, there are plenty of aircraft modeling sites already.

The biggest thing is to just take a realistic approach to it and not to expect too much too quickly. Start out small and build your way up from there.

Did I mention texturing.................

That's a whole other headache. :))
 
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Mike...I can sense words spoken of pure wisdom..via trial and error. Especially when it comes to the subject at hand. Even though I don't have the experience to actually say what I'm about to, I can honestly relate in the way you put things. It makes sense. And I do agree that the modeling softwares are complex.

I've got a few good friends that are great modelers. But they go in different directions from the FS world. Rhino, Maya and the more complex software that make compatibility issues and exporting nightmare (from what I've been told)

And, you are right. I am anxious to learn. As most things in life, I take them head on for the most thrill and excitement. It's the best way IMHO.

Just thinking of the terminology that's derived from modeling makes me think like a nerd...lol No offense anyone. Just something that came to mind. Nurbs and blurbs or something the like comes to mind when I stop and think.

You are right again about the scenery objects side of the coin. There isn't enough available. For that matter, the surface hasn't even gotten scratched as far as what can be made available for use on the flight sim. I want to change that by making/designing for everyone's enjoyment. I want to fill (somewhat) the niche.

I know that if I could meet the right person who'd (so to say) take me under their wing (teach me), I/we could make the flightsim world a better experience.

As far as waiting. I'm not getting younger. Why wait. Spontaneity!!:D

By the way, great link Mike.

Thanks!!
 
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Sounds like you are ready to roll. Here's some inspiration for you. It's my best work yet.

PhotoRealHangar_textures.jpg


maiwinhangprtext.jpg
 
That's dam....er dang nice work there Mike. Looks like one of the texturing nightmares coming to haunt me after it got you first. And it looks that you've got the hanger doors to open automatically (nav 2)

Yep, that's what I want to learn to make. Amongst much much more.

LOL..funny guy. Ready to roll !!?? Yep....I am. But at this point in the game. I'd flop like a fish out of water. Ha Ha.... inspiration? It sure is. More like intimidation for now.

That must be one of your special scenery goodies. I've never seen that one.
 
I guess the point I'm demonstrating is that the textures are as important as the model itself. You can make the most realistic looking model, but without a good texture on it, it won't look good.

Don't take it as intimidation. That, it is certainly not. It is simply a basic model with a set of photoreal textures on it to spruce it up a bit.
 
Alright Mike. I'll say excuse me now, as I don't want to offend. It's not intended to be perceived that way.

I was being subtle in my response previously. Your modeling abilities are awesome. Your texturing abilities, are just as impressive. More so than the modeling.

From really looking at the model itself, in relation to the textures applied, your model seems primitive (in a manner of speaking) The front of the hanger is the most complex thing about it. All the eye candy comes derived from the great textures. I noticed that after I saw the inside view (actual framing of the model) and the model as a whole. As few polys as needed to keep the hit frame rate to a minimum, but highly polished presentation surface. Which is the utmost, MOST needed method of application that the simulator performs at it's best.

A great representation. VERY COOL

Dusty
 
In it's very basic form, modelling is modelling.

Remember, the program doesn't know whether you're building scenery or aircraft. It's what happens when you press the "compile" button that determines it.

I have learned modelling techniques from reading the scenery threads and tutorials, as well as from aircraft tutorials.

The most important thing is to get a handle on the modelling program used, and remember there is usually more than one way to model something.
 
I'll state from the outset that I'm an aircraft modeler. My forays into scenery have been limited to a few custom hanger and FBO objects...

...however, that won't stop me from throwing my :twocents: into the discussion! :stirthepo

Dusty, you've already grasped what -to me at least- is the most important focus of any 3d modeling, especially when designed for gaming: texturing drives the modeling!

One of my first tasks when researching assets for a project is to locate pictures/images to be used in the project. Often enough, I have to develop my own composited images from multiple sources.

Then, I build the model TO the textures, using the textures to determine the level of detail the model needs. For example, do I really need to model every rib in those hanger doors, or will the texture itself be enough for the illusion? :D
 
n4gix

Thanks for the response.

I've been doing some reading in the back ground of 3DSmax. Considering this is where Gmax is derived from, I've resorted in finding my research directly. Tutorials are (for some reason) very elusive. I really don't understand why, I also think it's ridiculous. Now....this is NOT a personal jab towards anyone. But I am going to to make my statement.

For as long as Gmax (or FSDS for that matter) has been around, it's pathetic, and a true fact that people actually display themselves as NOT wanting to share secrets openly that would benefit everyone (in this particular subject)in the flightsim community.

I come NOT ONLY to the FSDeveloper forum seeking guidance and words of wisdom from the gurus who've learned things the harder ways. I'll admit. I'm old school (for those knowing the term) and I can relate (at times) to someone getting put in a round house, and then getting told to go sit in the corner. Anyone would get a laugh from it. But let's be honest here man. Information, wisdom, skills never really cost anyone , anything. Time I spose. Like me going through the paces of tracking the little bits of info I need to make something that (should be) so simple if it was demonstrated by the right person. A puzzle is only as complex as the eye sees it.

I'm going WAY too far in depth trying to make my point

(sits back down)
 
Dusty.M.J said:
For as long as Gmax (or FSDS for that matter) has been around, it's pathetic, and a true fact that people actually display themselves as NOT wanting to share secrets openly that would benefit everyone (in this particular subject)in the flightsim community.
Click to expand...

I guess you're right... I think I'll write to Arno tell him he should shut down fsdeveloper.com, scenery.org, and I'll shut down Freeflight Deisgn Shop. After all, no one's sharing anything worthwhile.

Screw it, let every modeller fend for himself.
 
ROFL.....oh man. I somewhat sarcastically lit a fuse :p

I'm going to take a guess that I won't be getting anymore correspondence Felix.

I'll have to assume you're not old school
 
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FelixFFDS said:
I guess you're right... I think I'll write to Arno tell him he should shut down fsdeveloper.com, scenery.org, and I'll shut down Freeflight Deisgn Shop. After all, no one's sharing anything worthwhile.

Screw it, let every modeller fend for himself.
Click to expand...

You are kidding.................right?? :D
 
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