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Initial Thoughts and Requests

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70
Country
unitedstates
First off, I'm new to the scenery development world (I diddled around with FS98 and FS2000 when they were the cat's meow, but never did much more than just fiddled with it), but have a few projects that I need done to a certain standard. I recently found ADE and just love many things about it. The last few days have been remarkable what I've been able to accomplish with this tool. Bravo on making something great and thank you for NOT charging for it as it opens up the design world to many more people (if I had to pay for the designer, I'd probably not bother with what I want to achieve).

I've been messing around in 1.62.5306 and have run into a few issues I'd like to report (I had a few others, but seems the 5348 build has addressed quite a few of these even without being mentioned in the notes - such as SAVE AS wasn't actually saving a new design file and a few other things I can't remember right now)

#Issue 1 Item Handle Clicking/Grabbing
At near max zoom levels with the line/handle size inflated or deflated (z or shift+z), sometimes grabbing the handle location is an exercise in futility. It may take 100 clicks to get it right. Click, see if it changed to a SELECTED status, now wait a second to avoid dragging the whole item, then click and drag the point again. Oh damn, it seems that you're half a pixel off from the item (even though the cursor is smack dab in the middle of the square). It may need to be left, right above or below the point at which you are trying to click. Sometimes, it gets REALLY aggravating just to move a single node. At normal zoom levels, its less tedious, but it is hard to get the points in the right spots without really zooming in.

#Issue 2 Runway Modification with FS Open and Connected
In order to make sure something is working with the runway, I'll save, compile then load FS. Connect ADE to FS then move the aircraft to where I need to see something. I'll see what needs to be fixed and switch to ADE, open the runway dialog and try to close it. When clicking OK or Cancel, the window will not close. If I close FSX, the window will close just after FS disconnects. This issue pops up 75-90% of the time.

#Issue 3 Image Quality
When using images from Google Earth (used snip tool to copy screen area, saved file based on Lat/Lon coords), the image quality even at maximum zoom is barely half the actual resolution of the image. Typically, the Google Earth eye height is around 1100ft for most of the images at the airport I'm working at, but zooming in and taking the screen capture again from 600ft yields the same image quality in ADE.
The images I have added via the Right click, Add, Image menu. I am specifying the Lat/Lon directly and the image is damn near spot on with only slight re-positioning needed afterward.

#Issue 4 Tab order for Runway/Right Left VASI
When you select the Left VASI type dropdown box and hit tab, it skips over the EDGE parameter and jumps to the THOLD parameter. The only one that works properly is the SECONDARY RUNWAY LEFT VASI control group. The PRIMARY RUNWAY LEFT VASI, PRIMARY RUNWAY RIGHT VASI and SECONDARY RUNWAY RIGHT VASI groups skip over the EDGE parameter.


Request #1 - Split Line
One thing I thought might be good would be for items like a GP line, maybe even a poly would be the ability to split the item. When you make a long line and want to sub-divide it into smaller parts. Right now, the only way to do that would be to copy the item, then delete the nodes from the original (1 by 1) that you want in part 1, then do the same to the copy. Maybe if there were a way to split the line at a certain node (smaller node counts for GP Lines seems to make the GP Texture dialog move MUCH faster). This also lends to the inability to select multiple nodes of a line or polygon for mass deletion. You can only select, delete, select delete which can be very slow at times.

Request #2 - Copy/Paste/Rotate multiple point-based items
Another idea would be the ability to group items and rotate polygons. I am trying to create GROUND LOCATION IDENTIFIERS which basically consist of a single background rectangle polygon with rectangle polygons for each letter on top. If I want to rotate even slightly, I have to delete the whole thing and re-create them. If there were the ability to select the markers and then rotate their points in the same way as rotating a rectangle helper, it would be awesome. Grouping the tiles together would make it easy for Copy-Paste operations as a long runway with lots of intersections usually has the same identifiers at each intersection.

Request #3 - Paste at Original Location
Also, in order to make my taxiways with a uninterrupted black border, I have found that if you copy a GP Line and make a layer of just the background line, then layer the actual centerline as a different object on top of that, you get a seamless yellow network of lines with the black background around them. The trick is that the copy/paste of an object places the pasted object at the cursor. Maybe it would be prudent to have a paste option that places the new object at the same coordinates as the original for my method to work. As it is, sometimes when moving a GP line with 50+ points, it may take 5-10 seconds for the line to show in its new location. Pasting the GP line in the original's position would eliminate having to re-position the pasted item to get alignment perfect.

Request #4 - Predefined UV mapping of text
If there were any way to identify the alphabet/text locations in the image using a text file marking UV coordinates on the texture sheet for pre-determined tiles, it would make it a lot easier to make the location markers. Let's say the 7 is top left of (0.581,0.082), top right of (0.635,0.082), bottom left of (0.581,0.009) and bottom right of (0.635,0.009). The text marker file would basically have all of these locations predetermined. Then, you could add space around the character in the selection dialog. The drop-down that you select the "Line Pattern/Style" would say "Restricted Area, Restricted Zone, Contact Tower" and the like for each tile defined in the file with entries like "[Tile Description],
,
,[Top],[Bottom]" and then your program would take the
and [Top] values from the selected item to create the Top Left UV coordinate. If the user wanted extra spacing, they could use the outline property to define how much space outside the character to use or maybe add an up/down control between the Line Pattern/Style combobox and outline width textboxes for this value. Maybe 4 controls for each direction from the tile (Top, Bottom, Left, Right).


Again, in making my airport, I absolutely LOVE this program and cannot say enough about how great it is and how much someone can do with it. I just want to help you to make it the best program it could possibly be.​
 
First off, I'm new to the scenery development world (I diddled around with FS98 and FS2000 when they were the cat's meow, but never did much more than just fiddled with it), but have a few projects that I need done to a certain standard. I recently found ADE and just love many things about it. The last few days have been remarkable what I've been able to accomplish with this tool. Bravo on making something great and thank you for NOT charging for it as it opens up the design world to many more people (if I had to pay for the designer, I'd probably not bother with what I want to achieve).

Thanks for the feedback. It will take us a while to work through it carefully

I've been messing around in 1.62.5306 and have run into a few issues I'd like to report (I had a few others, but seems the 5348 build has addressed quite a few of these even without being mentioned in the notes - such as SAVE AS wasn't actually saving a new design file and a few other things I can't remember right now)

5348 is a considerably more stable build that 5306 and should address a number of issues in the earlier build

#Issue 1 Item Handle Clicking/Grabbing
At near max zoom levels with the line/handle size inflated or deflated (z or shift+z), sometimes grabbing the handle location is an exercise in futility. It may take 100 clicks to get it right. Click, see if it changed to a SELECTED status, now wait a second to avoid dragging the whole item, then click and drag the point again. Oh damn, it seems that you're half a pixel off from the item (even though the cursor is smack dab in the middle of the square). It may need to be left, right above or below the point at which you are trying to click. Sometimes, it gets REALLY aggravating just to move a single node. At normal zoom levels, its less tedious, but it is hard to get the points in the right spots without really zooming in.

I don't know if you have tool tips turned on but it is a good predictor as to whether an object can be selected. We use a third party graphics engine (which it is unlikely we will replace since it would be a massive job after ten years or so of development). So we are a bit beholden to it. However irrespective of the exact position of the cursor relative to the object if the tool tip is visible then you should be able to left click to select.

#Issue 2 Runway Modification with FS Open and Connected
In order to make sure something is working with the runway, I'll save, compile then load FS. Connect ADE to FS then move the aircraft to where I need to see something. I'll see what needs to be fixed and switch to ADE, open the runway dialog and try to close it. When clicking OK or Cancel, the window will not close. If I close FSX, the window will close just after FS disconnects. This issue pops up 75-90% of the time.

This has been reported before but unfortunately I cannot replicate it on either of my development machines. We are aware of graphics issues where ADE is open over the top of the sim. I assume you are running FSX windowed? If not then please try that. If you are then please try minimizing FSX to see if that helps. Finally if you have ADE set to automatically connect to FSX try changing it to manual connect and then do a manual disconnect from FSX within ADE rather than closing FSX

#Issue 3 Image Quality
When using images from Google Earth (used snip tool to copy screen area, saved file based on Lat/Lon coords), the image quality even at maximum zoom is barely half the actual resolution of the image. Typically, the Google Earth eye height is around 1100ft for most of the images at the airport I'm working at, but zooming in and taking the screen capture again from 600ft yields the same image quality in ADE.
The images I have added via the Right click, Add, Image menu. I am specifying the Lat/Lon directly and the image is damn near spot on with only slight re-positioning needed afterward.

I am not quire sure I understand this one. There are some algorithms in ADE that manage the size and quality of background images. One issue we have struggled with in the past is getting out of memory problems with images. This has nothing to do with the actual size of the image file on disk but more to do with the area in pixels and the color quality. Hi color quality uses several bytes per pixel and an image of 1000 x 1000 pixels will use a lot of memory. I don't want to get into the technicalities of how memory is handled but the program has to find a single continuous block of memory at least the size required by the image in the memory allocated to it. Other folks can probably talk about their strategy for background images which may be of more practical help than my programmers view

#Issue 4 Tab order for Runway/Right Left VASI
When you select the Left VASI type dropdown box and hit tab, it skips over the EDGE parameter and jumps to the THOLD parameter. The only one that works properly is the SECONDARY RUNWAY LEFT VASI control group. The PRIMARY RUNWAY LEFT VASI, PRIMARY RUNWAY RIGHT VASI and SECONDARY RUNWAY RIGHT VASI groups skip over the EDGE parameter.

To be honest I would not be surprised if tab order is wrong in quite a few places in ADE :oops: I will look at this one of course.

Request #1 - Split Line
One thing I thought might be good would be for items like a GP line, maybe even a poly would be the ability to split the item. When you make a long line and want to sub-divide it into smaller parts. Right now, the only way to do that would be to copy the item, then delete the nodes from the original (1 by 1) that you want in part 1, then do the same to the copy. Maybe if there were a way to split the line at a certain node (smaller node counts for GP Lines seems to make the GP Texture dialog move MUCH faster). This also lends to the inability to select multiple nodes of a line or polygon for mass deletion. You can only select, delete, select delete which can be very slow at times.

We have split lines on the development list. I don't understand multiple delete of vertices since I can select several (using Shift Click) and then delete them with the Delete Key - but perhaps you mean something else.

Request #2 - Copy/Paste/Rotate multiple point-based items
Another idea would be the ability to group items and rotate polygons. I am trying to create GROUND LOCATION IDENTIFIERS which basically consist of a single background rectangle polygon with rectangle polygons for each letter on top. If I want to rotate even slightly, I have to delete the whole thing and re-create them. If there were the ability to select the markers and then rotate their points in the same way as rotating a rectangle helper, it would be awesome. Grouping the tiles together would make it easy for Copy-Paste operations as a long runway with lots of intersections usually has the same identifiers at each intersection.

You can rotate a poly or line by selecting it, holding down the Alt Key and using the mouse wheel. Are you asking for the ability to copy and paste multiple objects?

Request #3 - Paste at Original Location
Also, in order to make my taxiways with a uninterrupted black border, I have found that if you copy a GP Line and make a layer of just the background line, then layer the actual centerline as a different object on top of that, you get a seamless yellow network of lines with the black background around them. The trick is that the copy/paste of an object places the pasted object at the cursor. Maybe it would be prudent to have a paste option that places the new object at the same coordinates as the original for my method to work. As it is, sometimes when moving a GP line with 50+ points, it may take 5-10 seconds for the line to show in its new location. Pasting the GP line in the original's position would eliminate having to re-position the pasted item to get alignment perfect.

You can copy/paste the coordinates of one object to another if you have a ProKey. This would not work for a whole line but would for the vertices. I will take a look at this in more detail

Request #4 - Predefined UV mapping of text
If there were any way to identify the alphabet/text locations in the image using a text file marking UV coordinates on the texture sheet for pre-determined tiles, it would make it a lot easier to make the location markers. Let's say the 7 is top left of (0.581,0.082), top right of (0.635,0.082), bottom left of (0.581,0.009) and bottom right of (0.635,0.009). The text marker file would basically have all of these locations predetermined. Then, you could add space around the character in the selection dialog. The drop-down that you select the "Line Pattern/Style" would say "Restricted Area, Restricted Zone, Contact Tower" and the like for each tile defined in the file with entries like "[Tile Description],
,​
,[Top],[Bottom]" and then your program would take the​
and [Top] values from the selected item to create the Top Left UV coordinate. If the user wanted extra spacing, they could use the outline property to define how much space outside the character to use or maybe add an up/down control between the Line Pattern/Style combobox and outline width textboxes for this value. Maybe 4 controls for each direction from the tile (Top, Bottom, Left, Right).​


I think this is one for Don (gadgets) who develops the GP functions

Again, in making my airport, I absolutely LOVE this program and cannot say enough about how great it is and how much someone can do with it. I just want to help you to make it the best program it could possibly be.

Thanks again for the feedback
 
The Alt+Wheel only works for one item. If you have a background rectangle plus tiles for location text and try to rotate them, only one will rotate. It is better than not at all, but being able to rotate them ALL would be great. Plus the ability to copy/paste all selected items at one time instead of one by one. Positioning for all sub items would be maintained, especially if the rotate function were extended to include all items selected.

The multi-point delete I see you have to use Shift+Click for each point. But the rectangle select cannot be used on vertices. Also, the rectangle select tool should rotate with the viewport instead of being slaved to north up.

Another thing I forgot to mention was the taxiway point bubble should scale with the zoom level. At max zoom levels, it is impossible to differentiate them apart from each other in tight circumstances.

The copy/paste of the lines should have the option of the cursor location or the original item location to preserve overlapping.


The google earth image method (easier with multi-monitors)

1. Open Google Earth (get rid of anything you can so it's a map/status bar only) and move it to where you want to take an image of
2. Use the snipping tool and go from the extreme top-left to the bottom right of the window
3. Move the snipping tool window to the one opposite the google earth viewport
4. Save the image in the snipping tool - will ask for filename
5. Without clicking, move the mouse pointer to the extreme top-left corner of google earth and type the lat/lon reported in the statusbar in the bottom right of the window (status bar)
6. Move the cursor to the bottom right of the window and type in the lat/lon
7. Set the picture format as desired (I use JPG due to file size versus quality, PNG would be second on my list)

The filename should be something like "29.193112 -81.085671 29.168874 -81.039337".

8. Right click on the ADE editor, then Add->Image
9. Use the ... button to find your image (changing the open file dialog to "EXTRA LARGE ICONS" will give a nice preview of the file so you don't have to remember the lat/lons)
10. Check the "Enter Corner Coordinates" checkbox
11. Copy the LAT/LON pairs to the respective boxes
12. Click Save
13. Focus on the newly loaded image and right click, then Position Image
14. Use the controls to place the image to match either your already placed items or any other images used for tracing


When I use the above method, I end up having to scale the images 2x to get them to the right size when using the coordinates entry. Then, once loaded, I edit the image properties and change the quality to 1 and click ok, then edit the image quality back to 100 and the quality is ok, but still not the same as the original image quality, even at max zoom. Without the coordinates entry and just loading the file, then resizing the image, the quality seems better, but not reliably better than after resetting the quality to 1, then back to 100.
 
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Request #4 - Predefined UV mapping of text
If there were any way to identify the alphabet/text locations in the image using a text file marking UV coordinates on the texture sheet for pre-determined tiles, it would make it a lot easier to make the location markers. Let's say the 7 is top left of (0.581,0.082), top right of (0.635,0.082), bottom left of (0.581,0.009) and bottom right of (0.635,0.009). The text marker file would basically have all of these locations predetermined. Then, you could add space around the character in the selection dialog. The drop-down that you select the "Line Pattern/Style" would say "Restricted Area, Restricted Zone, Contact Tower" and the like for each tile defined in the file with entries like "[Tile Description],
,
,[Top],[Bottom]" and then your program would take the
and [Top] values from the selected item to create the Top Left UV coordinate. If the user wanted extra spacing, they could use the outline property to define how much space outside the character to use or maybe add an up/down control between the Line Pattern/Style combobox and outline width textboxes for this value. Maybe 4 controls for each direction from the tile (Top, Bottom, Left, Right).
Obviously, the answer to your initial question is "yes". And, on the surface, an excellent suggestion. Indeed, that's basically how lines work - in one axis only, however.

Rather than redesign, a better question might have been "How can I accomplish [what I want to do] with the current implementation?" The answer to that question is, you could rework that texture to have all the elements one above the other (like the upper elements already are) - adding any other signs you might need and, with the Texture Editor, name each element and specify it's "U" position and depth. Using short "undimensioned lines", the boundaries will automatically enclose the specified element. You may still have to do some "fiddling" with line length, but I see no way to avoid that other than practice. Use the texture "gp_Patterns" as an example.

Don
 
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