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Is it possible to add effects on aircraft converted fsx to msfs2020 in mdl form?

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brazil
Good afternoon, I don't know if you can help me,
I did a conversion of an aircraft from fsx to msfs2020, it's working great. I would like to add the effects of dust when it's on a dirt track and trails from the turbines. but I already researched and I only saw the addition of effects in the form gltf and not mdl. It's possible?
 
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306
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unitedstates
Sorry to butt in but I've been away from this for over a year and now none of my FSX converts work right. How did you fix or do they have to be completely redone??
 
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10
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brazil
Sorry to butt in but I've been away from this for over a year and now none of my FSX converts work right. How did you fix or do they have to be completely redone??
Well in my conversion I used the MSFS Legacy Importer then I made the adjustments with an aircraft already installed. But remember to always update the layout.json file, as nothing works correctly if this file is not updated.
 
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306
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unitedstates
Well in my conversion I used the MSFS Legacy Importer then I made the adjustments with an aircraft already installed. But remember to always update the layout.json file, as nothing works correctly if this file is not updated.
Thanks been awhile like I said , how would I do that??
 
Messages
10
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brazil
Thanks been awhile like I said , how would I do that??
There are several videos on the internet talking about it, watch some and start making your own conversions. Remembering how it is about converting fsx to msfs2020, it would be important that you have installed fsx golg, it will help a lot with the conversion. Also install ModelConverterX
 
Messages
306
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unitedstates
There are several videos on the internet talking about it, watch some and start making your own conversions. Remembering how it is about converting fsx to msfs2020, it would be important that you have installed fsx golg, it will help a lot with the conversion. Also install ModelConverterX
I converted quite a lot of FSX planes a years ago but I see it has all changed. Some are working somewhat ok others are wacko...I can't remember what all I did but will check out videos.
 

=rk=

Resource contributor
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4,450
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us-washington
Recommend you consider some legacy aircraft will crash the sim, it is hit or miss and while Legacy Converter is a great tool, it can't keep up with Asobo's mad scientist approach to development. It is easier, imo, to simply start over, there are enough resources available to have a good go at it. My most recent work involves copying animations from existing models, like landing gear and applying those to my own models. Thus far it is sufficient for AI aircraft, but again, it is a great way to get started, with lots of possibilities.

Here is a post where I describe the process of adding and aligning parts with a model.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...s-model-misalignment-issue.455901/post-906956
 
Messages
10
Country
brazil
Recommend you consider some legacy aircraft will crash the sim, it is hit or miss and while Legacy Converter is a great tool, it can't keep up with Asobo's mad scientist approach to development. It is easier, imo, to simply start over, there are enough resources available to have a good go at it. My most recent work involves copying animations from existing models, like landing gear and applying those to my own models. Thus far it is sufficient for AI aircraft, but again, it is a great way to get started, with lots of possibilities.

Here is a post where I describe the process of adding and aligning parts with a model.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...s-model-misalignment-issue.455901/post-906956
Very good, but my case is different, I did the conversion of an aircraft from fsx to msfs2020, it's working very well. I'd like to add the dust effects when it's on a dirt track and turbine tracks. but I already researched and I only saw the addition of effects in the form gltf and not mdl. It's possible?
 

=rk=

Resource contributor
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4,450
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us-washington
I am afraid I do not explain things well. There is no support for .mdl format. If things work, it is luck and if they do not, random fortune is your only option. You comment that your model works well, yet dust and engine effects that are present in the original model remain unavailable. There are likely a host of unreported, possibly unknown issues, as well.
 
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7,450
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us-illinois
Hello:

I do not work on aircraft in MSFS (yet), but AFAIK, there is a way to do what you want in MSFS with aircraft, albeit as a very early W.I.P.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/landing-effects.453256/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/you-can-never-trust-a-microsoft-sdk.453456/


There are a few aircraft that utilize the very early new Effects / Fx available via the MSFS SDK Visual Effects methods:

MSFS SDK Visual Effects


MSFS Fx I have seen thus far look like FX from FS 2002 / FS 2002 displayed in FSX without having yet been re-written / optimized for FSX.

Fx rendering is limited in Particle Density, 'FPS stutters' are seen, duration is short / cyclic, drift via Temperature attributes are wimpy etc.


IMHO Asobo has a fundamental misunderstanding of how well Fx (can) work via Windows DirectX sub-system (even old DirectX versions).

I should think that DX-12 would make Fx rendering even more FPS efficient and feature rich visually.


To be fair, ACES, prior to their termination in 2010 admitted FS' Visual Effects / Special Effects SDK was "a mess" needing a re-working.

Asobo is doing a good- but very slow- job re-working all the FS SDK to make it more logical, accessible, and (eventually ?) easier to use.

But, "necessity is the mother of invention" (...or was it: "child is father to the man" ? :scratchch :laughing:), so the W.I.P continues on MSFS' Fx rendering.


Personally, I shall watch and wait a while longer before I invest any time coding MSFS FX, only to get such a bad-looking result on screen.

GaryGB
 
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=rk=

Resource contributor
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4,450
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us-washington
But, "necessity is the mother of invention" (...or was it: "child is father to the man" ? :scratchch :laughing:), so the W.I.P continues on MSFS' Fx rendering.


Personally, I shall watch and wait a while longer before I invest any time coding MSFS FX, only to get such a bad-looking result on screen.

GaryGB
I think the expression might have been something like, "there was a bull in a field..." but also think you'll agree that it requires wading through a lot of unknowns and children outpacing fathers, to get the dubious results of a complete FSX aircraft into FS2020. It seems like a better investment of time to just bite the bullet, so to speak.
 
Messages
10
Country
brazil
I am afraid I do not explain things well. There is no support for .mdl format. If things work, it is luck and if they do not, random fortune is your only option. You comment that your model works well, yet dust and engine effects that are present in the original model remain unavailable. There are likely a host of unreported, possibly unknown issues, as well.
Thanks for the reply, but I'll keep trying, there must be some alternative
 
Messages
10
Country
brazil
Hello:

I do not work on aircraft in MSFS (yet), but AFAIK, there is a way to do what you want in MSFS with aircraft, albeit as a very early W.I.P.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/landing-effects.453256/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/you-can-never-trust-a-microsoft-sdk.453456/


There are a few aircraft that utilize the very early new Effects / Fx available via the MSFS SDK Visual Effects methods:

MSFS SDK Visual Effects


MSFS Fx I have seen thus far look like FX from FS 2002 / FS 2002 displayed in FSX without having yet been re-written / optimized for FSX.

Fx rendering is limited in Particle Density, 'FPS stutters' are seen, duration is short / cyclic, drift via Temperature attributes are wimpy etc.


IMHO Asobo has a fundamental misunderstanding of how well Fx (can) work via Windows DirectX sub-system (even old DirectX versions).

I should think that DX-12 would make Fx rendering even more FPS efficient and feature rich visually.


To be fair, ACES, prior to their termination in 2010 admitted FS' Visual Effects / Special Effects SDK was "a mess" needing a re-working.

Asobo is doing a good- but very slow- job re-working all the FS SDK to make it more logical, accessible, and (eventually ?) easier to use.

But, "necessity is the mother of invention" (...or was it: "child is father to the man" ? :scratchch :laughing:), so the W.I.P continues on MSFS' Fx rendering.


Personally, I shall watch and wait a while longer before I invest any time coding MSFS FX, only to get such a bad-looking result on screen.

GaryGB
Thanks, I will check your suggestions above, I know that in the SDK we will be able to create special effects and I don't see much difficulty in this regard, but in the case of the SDK we have to configure it after the effects are ready in the external GLTF model, which is not I have in this case seen that the external model is in MDL format.
 
Messages
10
Country
brazil
I think the expression might have been something like, "there was a bull in a field..." but also think you'll agree that it requires wading through a lot of unknowns and children outpacing fathers, to get the dubious results of a complete FSX aircraft into FS2020. It seems like a better investment of time to just bite the bullet, so to speak.
But that's the point, the challenge is what motivates us to keep going.
 
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7,450
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us-illinois
Hi again:

Although there is a "FSX Compatibility Mode" with a method to use a converted FSX MDL with the Legacy Flight Physics Model, only a handful of Fx files were configured to work with the MSFS version of the Aircraft.Cfg, thus we inherited from FSX, only a few original Fx files ...primarily for use with aircraft, and almost none for non-aircraft scenery use.

The "FSX Compatibility Mode" is deprecated, and may not be supported in the (near ?) future, so one must learn to output in glTF format.


Reportedly, AttachPonts are deprecated in MSFS as well, and we instead work to attach Fx via PartInfo listings in code structure elments:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...you-own-modelbehavior-code.451037/post-871171


With glTF aircraft, AFAIK, one uses a new type of code for creating AttachPoints that has some differences from FSX MDL AttachPoints.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/mcx-same-key-error-exporting-gltf.453610/post-890683

However, the ongoing interpretation of "AttachPoints" by MCX of Microsoft MSFS Deluxe / Premium KBFH airport scenery is intriguing:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/mcx-same-key-error-exporting-gltf.453610/post-890586


If a Aircraft.Cfg equivalent in MSFS is retained for glTF 3D SimObject models, 'GroundRoll'-related Fx can be attached there in Text form.

Engine exhaust Fx may need to be specified within the 3D model itself via AttachPoints with conditional display code.

GaryGB
 
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Messages
10
Country
brazil
Hi again:

Although there is a "FSX Compatibility Mode" with a method to use a converted FSX MDL with the Legacy Flight Physics Model, only a handful of Fx files were configured to work with the MSFS version of the Aircraft.Cfg, thus we inherited from FSX, only a few original Fx files ...primarily for use with aircraft, and almost none for non-aircraft scenery use.

The "FSX Compatibility Mode" is deprecated, and may not be supported in the (near ?) future, so one must learn to output in glTF format.

With glTF aircraft, AFAIK, one uses a new type of code for creating AttachPoints that has some differences from FSX MDL AttachPoints.

If the Aircraft.Cfg equivalent in MSFS is retained for glTF 3D SimObject models, 'GroundRoll'-related Fx can be attached there in Text form.

Engine exhaust Fx may need to be specified within the 3D model itself via AttachPoints with conditional display code.

GaryGB
Thanks for the clarifications. With ModelConverterx we were able to generate a gltf, the problem is that it doesn't follow the animations, so we have to do it all over again.
I'm not worried about the cockpit because I'm using the salty 5.01 that already has gltf, it's just the outside that worries
 

=rk=

Resource contributor
Messages
4,450
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us-washington
Engine exhaust Fx may need to be specified within the 3D model itself via AttachPoints with conditional display code.
Attached effects are node based. If you scan a glTF file with Notepad, you'll see many references to nodes. MCX Hierarchy Editor will also provide node information, "SceneGraphNode," is the header and every step is a node. Once you know the node you want to use, the details of the effect are recorded in the model XML file, visibility conditions are pretty similar to FSX, it's nice to find a "boolean" one so it reflects engine speed. There is almost always a node called "exhaust," or something like that, for afterburners and exhaust trails and if not, just use MCX to merge a little polygon into the model and attach your effect to it. Another cool thing about MCX, is that it will make the conversion from .mdl embedded effects, to glTF XML driven effects, at least in certain circumstances. So although it won't export the .mdl animations to glTF, it will teach us how to attach the new style effects and by extension animations, because FS2020 XML driven animations are coded almost exactly like XML effects.

waverider boost.JPG
 
Messages
10
Country
brazil
Attached effects are node based. If you scan a glTF file with Notepad, you'll see many references to nodes. MCX Hierarchy Editor will also provide node information, "SceneGraphNode," is the header and every step is a node. Once you know the node you want to use, the details of the effect are recorded in the model XML file, visibility conditions are pretty similar to FSX, it's nice to find a "boolean" one so it reflects engine speed. There is almost always a node called "exhaust," or something like that, for afterburners and exhaust trails and if not, just use MCX to merge a little polygon into the model and attach your effect to it. Another cool thing about MCX, is that it will make the conversion from .mdl embedded effects, to glTF XML driven effects, at least in certain circumstances. So although it won't export the .mdl animations to glTF, it will teach us how to attach the new style effects and by extension animations, because FS2020 XML driven animations are coded almost exactly like XML effects.

View attachment 84498
Okay, I'll leave the mdl gltf conversion for later, my converted aircraft has good external animations. Taking advantage of your patience with me, would it be possible to trigger the external effects that I need inside the cockpit, since it has gltf and xml, like a button that would turn on the exhaust effect creating trails?
 

=rk=

Resource contributor
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4,450
Country
us-washington
Everything created for FS2020 must pass through the "build" procedure. FSPackagetool will process SimObject .mdl files, as an example in the case of an AI ship project package, however the incompatibility issues remain and insist any development toward "backwards compatibility" will be unproductive.
Okay, I'll leave the mdl gltf conversion for later, my converted aircraft has good external animations. Taking advantage of your patience with me, would it be possible to trigger the external effects that I need inside the cockpit, since it has gltf and xml, like a button that would turn on the exhaust effect creating trails?

Therefore, such things could be possible, but will likely remain unexplored.

On top of this, there is the fact that mainstream simulation providers, like PMDG and CaptainSim, are announcing suspension of support and development for P3D and are shifting focus to the "less professional" sim.

The writing, as my friend Steely Dan once told me, is on the wall. He said this to me, "you can go full Kid Charlemagne, or you can join the human race."
 
Messages
10
Country
brazil
Everything created for FS2020 must pass through the "build" procedure. FSPackagetool will process SimObject .mdl files, as an example in the case of an AI ship project package, however the incompatibility issues remain and insist any development toward "backwards compatibility" will be unproductive.


Therefore, such things could be possible, but will likely remain unexplored.

On top of this, there is the fact that mainstream simulation providers, like PMDG and CaptainSim, are announcing suspension of support and development for P3D and are shifting focus to the "less professional" sim.

The writing, as my friend Steely Dan once told me, is on the wall. He said this to me, "you can go full Kid Charlemagne, or you can join the human race."
OK, now I realize I'm paddling against the tide. Thank you all for your patience and positions, clarifying what can and cannot happen in the near future.
 
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