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Sketchup slow as molasses.

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us-michigan
Computer to slow or I'm too fast and detailed? General question really, for the most part designing objects for FSX works fairly well. But SketchUp lags horribly if I design detailed objects. I designed a building for FSX with night textures and all. I thought I'd have a go at detailing the building to the max for myself. Window sills, walls bumped out etc. Anyway my computer stats are as such:

Toshiba Satellite
I3 1.80 GHz
4 gig ram
64 op system
Windows 8
500 gig hd

This always confused me. I started designing with a XP, very little ram and small hard drive back in the day. It seems like things would get faster and smoother with better technology. But it doesn't seem too. My hard drive is almost half full. It is running a bit on the warm side. Any thoughts?
 
What version of Sketchup are you using ? :scratchch

I suggest using Sketchup Version 8 (32-Bit) ...it is faster. :idea:


The biggest killer of performance in Sketchup is mapping small areas within large texture images as a Material, and then
forgetting to make those texture areas mapped to Faces "Unique"

If you do not make them unique, all the unused area of the large texture images is still retained within the project file.

If you do make those mapped texture areas "Unique", you can then "Purge Unused" Materials from the project.


If you do what is suggested above, you could still have reasonable performance on a 1.8 GHz / 4 GB RAM system.


BTW: Having SKP or KMZ project files that are larger than 40MB impairs performance.


PS: Tell us the Manufacturer's Model number of the computer; we can then see if there is a video driver update for it.


Hope this helps ! :)

GaryGB
 
Some additional info that may help:


While it is a good idea to keep MDL files smaller, FS is actually able to render very large and complex objects. :pushpin:

FYI
: Some of my SKP projects (during construction as a "scene" with multiple objects in it) ...are over 120 MB in size. ;)


But, regardless of whether using Sketchup version 8 32-bit or the newer / 64-bit versions, Sketchup would normally start to 'slow down' when working on files that are 40 MB or larger ...unless one uses a few 'tricks". :teacher:


CAVEAT: Even if you do no more than "Tip #1", it may be the best of all for performance 'lag'.


TIP #1
: To prevent stuttering, slow responsiveness, file saves that 'take forever', occasional failed auto-saves / manual saves, or crashes of SKP projects which are 'very large' in size in Sketchup, navigate: :idea:

Sketchup Menu > Window > Model Info > File > General > un-check "Redefine thumbnail on save"


TIP#2
: To make dramatically "speed up" large projects in Sketchup and more quickly launch other applications such as one's graphical Editor linked to Sketchup texture via:

{ selected texture face } > Right-click > Texture > Edit Texture Image...


...Use 1 or more fast flash drive (ex: at least 150 or 100 MB/sec) on a USB 3.0 / 2.0 port as ReadyBoost cache memory.

I use "SanDisk Ultra - Dual USB Drive 3.0" (32-GB capacity) available from ex: WalMart

FYI: SanDisk was recently 'acquired' by Intel; these actually are quality flash drives ;)


NOTE: For faster I/O:

1.) Format flash drive(s) as ExFAT file system

a.) Use larger Cluster sizes per MS Windows KB docs for ReadyBoost on ExFAT drive:

"Default cluster sizes for exFAT

The following table describes the default cluster sizes for exFAT.

Volume size in Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows Server 2008, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2003, Windows XP

Code:
Drive size   -   Cluster size

7 MB–256 MB      4 KB

256 MB–32 GB     32 KB

32 GB–256 TB     128 KB

> 256 TB         Not supported

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/140365


2.) In Windows Explorer, right-click drive letter > Properties > ReadyBoost Tab:

a.) 'Tick' radio button: "Dedicate this device to ReadyBoost"

b.) Set "Space to reserve for system speed" slider to maximum size allowed by Windows on ExFAT drives


3.) Click [Apply], [OK] buttons; ReadyBoost drive is now activated (system gains speed promptly after initial file I/O / execution)



PS: ReadyBoost also dramatically speeds up Windows Explorer file display / search of folders with 'MANY' (> 5,000) files on local and networked drives, in addition to speeding up web browsers ex: FireFox.


"Windows 7 allows up to eight devices for a maximum of 256 GB of additional memory,[8] with up to 32 GB on a single storage device.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost


Hope this info helps a bit more ! :)

GaryGB
 
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Um, I was going to say, that if your model is so complex it slows your 3d software down, it will NEVER render within the simulator. 74 paragraphs about how to make your computer work better, covering every possible situation you can possibly imagine is not developer support.
I have been modelling with Sketchup exclusively since 2014. In my signature are links to my model libraries and I have created 14 sceneries that I have uploaded to Avsim. I have done several projects for commercial developers for companies like Golden Age Simulations and FS2Crew. I have never had to "make faces unique," nor has a statement of "my computer runs slow," triggered any sort of desire to spew solutions to a myriad of marginally related problems. The more one writes, the harder it is to find the one meaningful sentence that encourages progress.

Anyway, if you have not died of old age after reading the above posts - and you were able to find this relatively shorter post, one where I go to effort to make it condensed and digestible, "simple" if you will; you will want follow this advice; to change from a laptop to a developer rig.

What is killing you with the Toshiba Satellite - this is the reason all the information above is useless - is that it has no substantial video processing power, almost certainly no onboard vid card. If you went and purchased the available $86 video card for your $79 laptop, you'd get something like 128 megabytes of dedicated graphics memory. That is about enough power to model a boat oar or a fire extinguisher or something. These days video cards are measured in gigabytes.
The problem is that everything you do in your software has to be rendered, just like in the sim. I am sure you well know that that laptop can not run FSX. It is reasonable to assume that a laptop intended for Facebooking may also have difficulty with elements that comprise the FSX simulation. Now your 3d modelling render may be all wire frame and pastel colors, suitable for a 3d work space, but it will still quickly overwhelm the likes of a Toshiba Satellite. Think of the name, for graphics work, you'd need something called the Toshiba Deathstar, or something.
 
Um, I was going to say, that if your model is so complex it slows your 3d software down, it will NEVER render within the simulator. 74 paragraphs about how to make your computer work better, covering every possible situation you can possibly imagine is not developer support.
I have been modelling with Sketchup exclusively since 2014. In my signature are links to my model libraries and I have created 14 sceneries that I have uploaded to Avsim. I have done several projects for commercial developers for companies like Golden Age Simulations and FS2Crew. I have never had to "make faces unique," nor has a statement of "my computer runs slow," triggered any sort of desire to spew solutions to a myriad of marginally related problems. The more one writes, the harder it is to find the one meaningful sentence that encourages progress.

Anyway, if you have not died of old age after reading the above posts - and you were able to find this relatively shorter post, one where I go to effort to make it condensed and digestible, "simple" if you will; you will want follow this advice; to change from a laptop to a developer rig.

What is killing you with the Toshiba Satellite - this is the reason all the information above is useless - is that it has no substantial video processing power, almost certainly no onboard vid card. If you went and purchased the available $86 video card for your $79 laptop, you'd get something like 128 megabytes of dedicated graphics memory. That is about enough power to model a boat oar or a fire extinguisher or something. These days video cards are measured in gigabytes.
The problem is that everything you do in your software has to be rendered, just like in the sim. I am sure you well know that that laptop can not run FSX. It is reasonable to assume that a laptop intended for Facebooking may also have difficulty with elements that comprise the FSX simulation. Now your 3d modelling render may be all wire frame and pastel colors, suitable for a 3d work space, but it will still quickly overwhelm the likes of a Toshiba Satellite. Think of the name, for graphics work, you'd need something called the Toshiba Deathstar, or something.



Actually, I use it for everything I do. Modeling, FSX and web browsing. I'm low income, I can't go out and get a decent gamer computer. It was working fine, but has now been getting hot and slower with each passing day I throw more into it.
 
What version of Sketchup are you using ? :scratchch

I suggest using Sketchup Version 8 (32-Bit) ...it is faster. :idea:


The biggest killer of performance in Sketchup is mapping small areas within large texture images as a Material, and then
forgetting to make those texture areas mapped to Faces "Unique"

If you do not make them unique, all the unused area of the large texture images is still retained within the project file.

If you do make those mapped texture areas "Unique", you can then "Purge Unused" Materials from the project.


If you do what is suggested above, you could still have reasonable performance on a 1.8 GHz / 4 GB RAM system.


BTW: Having SKP or KMZ project files that are larger than 40MB impairs performance.


PS: Tell us the Manufacturer's Model number of the computer; we can then see if there is a video driver update for it.


Hope this helps ! :)

GaryGB


Each surface has it's own unique texture that I've created on Gimp. So it shouldn't be that. They're small to begin with. It's once I start pushing and pulling windows and walls in and out and duplication them over and over that it slows down. We're talking over 1600 feet high, half a block long building fully textured and detailed out. I just have not even a quarter of the bottom done and not even a half high and it's very slow.

Will my projects work on SK8? Do you have a trusted link for downloading it (sorry if you've already linked me one before). I'll get back to you on the model number. Unique textures for me always ends up being bad quality and the edges are always white a tad.
 
This is my model. Worked fine with these textures on SK14, MCX and FSX. Just placed it with ADE. I'm trying to remodel it using better textures and detailing it.
 

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Here it is in Google Earth. Thankfully I was going to model this block before the SketchUp / Google mess.
 

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Hi Chris:

Use of "Groups" is another factor that may greatly affect performance of a complex 3D model within Sketchup.

Based on your description above, you may have used many groups (rather than Components).


First, be certain to always make at least 2 backup file copies of your project: 1 as a SKP, 1 as a KMZ.


Then Intersect Faces with Model, and Explode 'all' groups to reduce 3D model complexity.


Also, reducing both the complexity of "wire-frame" geometry and the number of coplanar Faces mapped with Materials can be achieved by use of the Sketchup default Combine Textures feature.

NOTE: Click ["Yes" button] when prompted "Do you want to erase interior Edges ?) for adjacent sections of the opaque wall Faces, but do not 'Combine' textures for Window Faces with Faces for opaque walls ...if 'transparent' window Materials are used.


1.) After creating the desired precisely drawn and textured sub-faces on top of a exterior wall or other model 'surface':

a.) Select each sub-face (except for Window Faces if 'transparent' window Materials are used)

b.) Right-click > select "Make Unique Texture"

...to then make all such selected sub-face textures "unique"


2.) After making all such selected sub-face textures "unique" on ex: a flat exterior wall 'surface':

a.) {Ctrl+Left-click} to select all of the sub-faces with unique textures on ex: a (single) flat exterior wall 'surface' (except for Window Faces if 'transparent' window Materials are used)

b.) Right-click > select "Combine Textures"

(1) When Sketchup prompts "Do you want to erase interior Edges ?), click ["Yes" button]

......to then make all such sub-face textures "Combine" into a 1-piece texture ...on a 1-piece wall 'surface'


CAVEAT: If Sketchup does NOT submit the prompt "Do you want to erase interior Edges ?", there may be a 3D modeling issue which prevents normal operation of that default "Combine" script, and which must be manually inspected / fixed in order to properly "Combine" the selected 'unique' sub-faces.

IMHO such 3D modeling issues which prevent normal operation of that default "Combine" script must be manually inspected / fixed immediately and before proceeding further, or one may not be able to:

* reduce complexity of model Geometry and texturing with mapped materials

* properly fix other 3D modeling issues via thomthom's "Cleanup" add-on plugin Ruby script (before exporting a file to be imported into MCX)


Alternatively, you can Export a 2D graphic image of each side of the building to create a 1-piece texture image for re-mapping as a new Material onto a ex: 1-Face side for each coplanar (aka "perfectly flat") wall of the building.


Hope this helps a bit more with exploring your options for this project. :)


PS: If you wish, you can send me a Private Message (aka "PM") here at FSDeveloper, and provide a link to a ZIP containing a KMZ export of this 3D model; after I inspect the model, I can then advise you better. ;)

GaryGB
 
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Each surface has it's own unique texture that I've created on Gimp. So it shouldn't be that.
Actually it is probably that - that ans the fact that you should try to blow all the dust out of your ports. It might speed things up.
You can try using a single non-distinct texture to see the difference and numbers of polygons definitely do matter. You can take a look at default buildings to see how they are composed and you can picture how a photograph of an actual building will provide much more realism than extruding windows and walls ever will. Save you polygons for the detail areas that matter, like spires.

Here's an entire city, all the landmark buildings came from the Trimble Sketchup Warehouse. Some came from other sceneries, some default, the rest were made to order.

HiLpRfm.jpg

WzThXLO.jpg

bVcOpbr.jpg

pmgaDdM.jpg

9hpiBo7.jpg


Take a look at the downtown image, in the right front foreground. It is an embassy or consular office and all those flags are purely photographic. It is all the detail one should need for simulating flight, even in a downtown commuter helicopter situation and I think it's quite convincing. Polygon cost for those flags= zero, draw calls 1, along with the rest of the building. Altogether that building with detail is composed of fewer than 600 polygons.
 
rt, I understand that if I use real life textures that look good on a surface that it'll look better from a distance on the Simulator. I said earlier that this is for myself as a model for SketchUp, not FSX. Real as possible architecture design.
 
... It was working fine, but has now been getting hot and slower with each passing day I throw more into it.

Depending on design, a laptop may slow down as it gets hotter, which might become a vicious circle. Clear the dust out as much as you can; you wouldn't be the first caught that way.
 
rt, I understand that if I use real life textures that look good on a surface that it'll look better from a distance on the Simulator. I said earlier that this is for myself as a model for SketchUp, not FSX. Real as possible architecture design.
I designed a building for FSX with night textures and all. I thought I'd have a go at detailing the building to the max for myself.
Wait, this is your statement that the model is not for FSX? You can't see how there could be a possible misunderstanding, based on how it is worded? So your question is not about FSX, nor simulator development, ok.

Back to my original thoughts, clean the dust out. Maybe do what Gary says and get a readyboost drive. I pretty much work on simulator development, so I'd better bounce. GL with the architecture thing, yes, it is definitely not he same as designing for FSX; I consider that to be more like digital origami.
 
Hello... @Aspireman

Considering your Slow SketchUp...

There are so many possible reasons,... and I believe you mentioned that your system slows down more as soon as you add more to it,...
What could be slowing it down are plugins or add-ons for SketchUp. If you are adding scenery or multiple models into a single file... that also can slow it down because of the size of your memory,... and of course, the more you add the slower it will become (both loading, as well as moving around, if at all).

If your computer is becoming hotter,... you might be running into hardware troubles later on,... make sure you blow out your computer, at least monthly,...
 
Hi Chris:

Your KMZ file shows that you are well on your way to reducing your 3D model complexity by having reduced your walls to less faces and less unique textures via use of the Sketchup default Combine Textures feature. ;)


This would be a configuration more compatible with use as a scenery object in FSX.


You can further optimize this model and its performance in Sketchup by: :idea:

* Making a copy of the KMZ file, and removing all "templates" apparently used to assemble the buildings

* Clicking "Purge Unused" option in Model Info dialog:

Sketchup Menu > Window > Model Info > Statistics > check "Show nested components" > [Purge Unused] button


Then your "Before and After" statistics will be:

Before - Delete Templates / Purge Unused

Edges: 144036
Faces:38108
Component Instances: 2
Component Definitions: 2
Layers: 1
Materials: 52
Styles: 1

After - Delete Templates / Purge Unused

Edges: 4067
Faces: 1084
Component Instances: 2
Component Definitions: 2
Layers: 1
Materials: 22
Styles: 1

FYI: "After" statistics can be improved further by processing via thomthom's "Cleanup" add-on plugin Ruby script. :pushpin:

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=193587#p193587


[EDITED]

Remembering also, that your primary goal for this 3D model was to develop and display it in Sketchup, you could convert the more complex geometry of the 'grouped' window and balcony structures into "Components", which use "instancing" within the Sketchup work-space, rather than actually duplicating the physical geometry and mapped Materials of the objects ('virtual copies' that are not actual copies).

The creation of a "Component" should allow all 'instances' of that Component to be dynamically changed concurrently with any changes of geometry, texturing etc. made to any one of those instances.

This method would improve performance of a more detailed 3D model within Sketchup.

However, Arno has indicated that when such Components used in a 3D model are imported / converted by MCX, they become actual physical copies of geometry and Materials, and would be a very complex scenery object with potential run time performance issues when displayed in FSX. :alert:

[END_EDIT]

Keep up the good work ! :)


PS: Sketchup version 8 download info is here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/ruby-tuesday-2017-03-14.439657/


GaryGB
 
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