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SU10 impressions

rhumbaflappy

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I thought I'd start a discussion about the MSFS SU10;

In DevMode, the Properties menu doesn't seem so touchy, and you can switch 'objects' and it properly works on the new object.

Something that seems broken is create an apron. Then color it, move it, assign material... broken.
 

=rk=

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Well, just "wow." Initially, steam started to come out of my ears, because "now" I'm using water runways and the Volocity vehicle doesn't work there. I set a custom spawn and slewed down to the runway. Apparently my current working airport, the one I'd had problems with using ADE, will only load the parking and runways starts now, so I'll have to take it out of Community and see what's up with that.

Beyond that, I immediately noticed the grass is different. It is much more "olive" now, with tufts of tan. It used to be universally green, like Astroturf. Also, it more closely mimics ground color, as represented in grass density. Previously, it would cut off starkly at white ground stripes and cover everything else. So despite the initial let down, the grass got the update the wow.

grass.jpg
decent.jpg


The difference is stark, the old grass is much "bluer." If people do not notice this, I suggest there are regional variations, or perhaps it is actually color matched to ground polygons. I think the density "fading," is the best part. The upper image shows a road and rows of planted ground cover. The ground cover takes unevenly and the automatic procedurally placed grass represents that part almost perfectly. Finally, the roads are free of grass!
 

Md Alavi

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Hi,
I am also having water runway bug with custom scenery, is it a Asobo bug?

but when I set custom spawn its seem to be there and working fine in sim

Desktop Screenshot 2022.09.22 - 17.31.25.25.png
 

=rk=

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Follow up after further explorations. The World Map "From" field has changed slightly. My version now offers saved coordinates, as a destination. At first, I'd thought it had been my own saved coordinates, from when I work on my scenery, but I do not have the airport package in Community folder, so I can spawn at that location to work on it. However, the saved coordinates go to a city in the Midwest called "Austin," a place I'd never look for, so I believe the saved coordinate destination was placed there to alert simmers that one can type geo coordinates into the search bar and have it generate a custom spawn point at 1500' altitude.The feature is not new, it has always worked this way, the only thing that has changed, is now there is a set of coords to select.

Also, FSPackagetool compiles much more quickly. This is especially noticeable, if you use a desktop icon, or other process to load just the compiler, as I do. I just drop the XML onto the icon and the result is just short of instant.

As to my project, it remains botched and I can't start there, unless I use a float plane, or custom spawn. This despite some exploration and discoveries. I'd actually decided this is not a consequence of SU10 and I am still not convinced, despite the latest comment and it seems more likely this is a consequence of issues with ADE, or making poorly supported changes, which would be helpful to confirm, with the commenter above.

Hi,
I am also having water runway bug with custom scenery, is it a Asobo bug?

but when I set custom spawn its seem to be there and working fine in sim

I am trying to determine this, currently. I have done some investigations and they tend to discount "a universal custom scenery bug," or anything like that. It seems much more likely a software error, I am suspecting issues I had using ADE, but this would involve the premise that ADE introduced a glitch that remained "dormant," until SU10 uncovered it, which seems preposterous. Additionally, other airports I made in the area, to support AI operations, do not have this issue, so although this happened exactly at the transition to SU10, it seems difficult to relate the two. I had not performed a build with SU10, until I tested to see if doing so would remedy the issue.

Can you tell us if your airport.xml has a similar value for runway surface type, as does mine, an image of which is below?

With what software do you edit your airport details? Have you used ADE lately?

After some initial tests in the sim, I took a deep dive into the PackageSources folder.

Surface.jpg


I discovered an apparent anomaly in the airport XML, in that every other taxiway has a surface type that looks like a GUID, but the runway has type "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000," which seems incredibly improbable, so either runway surface GUID is always 000, or previous versions ignored runway surface type while SU10 discriminates it, or maybe when ADE allowed me to add an NDB and then crashed due to its presence it left a "present."

Yes, older airport XML documents do have a numerical value for that GUID, but no, replacing the zeroed out one, changes nothing. Besides, how could SU10's FSPackagetool, edit the contents of my PackageSources folder, without even changing the modification date? Please also explain how this SU10 FSPackagetool then leaves my corrected XML in the PackageSources folder, builds an airport project with a numerical valued GUID surface type, that remains a water runway.

So essentially, two things happened, on the coincidence, of SU10 update.
1) my airport.xml zeroed out it's surface type designation.
2) my airport is now a water runway, regardless if surface type is zero, or copy/pasted from previous versions.
Also, I see no AI activity whatsoever. No planes, no boats, no GAIST, no custom. Not the current issue, but it is ominous.

I suppose I could try editing one of the other airports, to see if that screws things up worse.
 
Last edited:

Md Alavi

Resource contributor
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176
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bangladesh
Follow up after further explorations. The World Map "From" field has changed slightly. My version now offers saved coordinates, as a destination. At first, I'd thought it had been my own saved coordinates, from when I work on my scenery, but I do not have the airport package in Community folder, so I can spawn at that location to work on it. However, the saved coordinates go to a city in the Midwest called "Austin," a place I'd never look for, so I believe the saved coordinate destination was placed there to alert simmers that one can type geo coordinates into the search bar and have it generate a custom spawn point at 1500' altitude.The feature is not new, it has always worked this way, the only thing that has changed, is now there is a set of coords to select.

Also, FSPackagetool compiles much more quickly. This is especially noticeable, if you use a desktop icon, or other process to load just the compiler, as I do. I just drop the XML onto the icon and the result is just short of instant.

As to my project, it remains botched and I can't start there, unless I use a float plane, or custom spawn. This despite some exploration and discoveries. I'd actually decided this is not a consequence of SU10 and I am still not convinced, despite the latest comment and it seems more likely this is a consequence of issues with ADE, or making poorly supported changes, which would be helpful to confirm, with the commenter above.



I am trying to determine this, currently. I have done some investigations and they tend to discount "a universal custom scenery bug," or anything like that. It seems much more likely a software error, I am suspecting issues I had using ADE, but this would involve the premise that ADE introduced a glitch that remained "dormant," until SU10 uncovered it, which seems preposterous. Additionally, other airports I made in the area, to support AI operations, do not have this issue, so although this happened exactly at the transition to SU10, it seems difficult to relate the two. I had not performed a build with SU10, until I tested to see if doing so would remedy the issue.

Can you tell us if your airport.xml has a similar value for runway surface type, as does mine, an image of which is below?

With what software do you edit your airport details? Have you used ADE lately?

After some initial tests in the sim, I took a deep dive into the PackageSources folder.

View attachment 84124

I discovered an apparent anomaly in the airport XML, in that every other taxiway has a surface type that looks like a GUID, but the runway has type "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000," which seems incredibly improbable, so either runway surface GUID is always 000, or previous versions ignored runway surface type while SU10 discriminates it, or maybe when ADE allowed me to add an NDB and then crashed due to its presence it left a "present."

Yes, older airport XML documents do have a numerical value for that GUID, but no, replacing the zeroed out one, changes nothing. Besides, how could SU10's FSPackagetool, edit the contents of my PackageSources folder, without even changing the modification date? Please also explain how this SU10 FSPackagetool then leaves my corrected XML in the PackageSources folder, builds an airport project with a numerical valued GUID surface type, that remains a water runway.

So essentially, two things happened, on the coincidence, of SU10 update.
1) my airport.xml zeroed out it's surface type designation.
2) my airport is now a water runway, regardless if surface type is zero, or copy/pasted from previous versions.
Also, I see no AI activity whatsoever. No planes, no boats, no GAIST, no custom. Not the current issue, but it is ominous.

I suppose I could try editing one of the other airports, to see if that screws things up worse.
Hi
Thanks for the explanation
Also I don't use ADE to edit airport
1663857793563.png


this how my airport.xml file look
 

Md Alavi

Resource contributor
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176
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bangladesh
Update-

checked Asobo sample airport and noticed that the GUID there is in correct manner

file name- MYNN.xml

1663858340915.png
 

=rk=

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I know that when I edit an airport within DevMode, it does modify the PackageSource folder contents, but I had not saved after downloading SU10, until doing so as a test, which didn’t work either, btw.

The only surface type adjustment that had been applied, was an Asobo decal material. I removed that, “builded,” placed that result in Community folder and the problem remained.

It is for this reason that I believe the issue started before SU10 and has only manifested, due to changes in SU10.

Another possibility, is that the GUID I applied, despite being copied from a previous version of the same airport, is itself defective and effectively identical to the 000 one.

We need more information and without its all guesswork.
 

rhumbaflappy

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In DevMode, the Properties menu doesn't seem so touchy, and you can switch 'objects' and it properly works on the new object.

Something that seems broken is create an apron. Then color it, move it, assign material... broken.
Working with this a bit, I find the DevMode Properties is still hit or miss. It's just not solidly sticking to the correct object, or making the changes needed. Regarding Aprons, I have found if I make sure the Materials window is closed, and it is transparent, I can then click on the Properties material slot, and I can then drag'n'drop a material from the newly opened Materials window. Whew! Not a good design at all. And you need to be sure the correct object is still selected, or you'll change the material of the wrong apron.... and sometimes colorization works and sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes the apron is non-textured until you close MSFS, restart it, reload the project.

And this is just aprons.
 

=rk=

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Update-

checked Asobo sample airport and noticed that the GUID there is in correct manner

file name- MYNN.xml
In my simulator, the only files that are affected, is one airport that I edited with ADE by adding an NDB, manually removing the NDB and then editing the airport in ADE again. If I simply take a previous version, that did not have the NDB manually removed, it works absolutely fine in MSFS, with no additional changes. This to me, is a strong endorsement of SU10 robustness and implies the problem is caused by something other than SU10.

Given this "development," I am absolutely convinced that, given time, I could find the exact snippet of code that corrupts the airport.xml and I sincerely believe "NDB incompatibilities" and "zeroed surface type, as water runway," are both consequences of the corrupt code, not examples of it.

Additionally, in all the world of flight simming, this far into an update, only two developers at the largest independent developers website, report? It seems highly improbable and the only thing that would convince me otherwise, is if you claim you never use ADE. Barring that, I will stop treating this as an update issue.
 
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us-illinois
Hello:

Based on these search results:

https://www.google.com/search?q=MSFS+Runway+Surface={00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}&ei=2tUtY7S_A6CGptQPq6eRoAM&ved=0ahUKEwi0lPqioqv6AhUgg4kEHatTBDQQ4dUDCA0&uact=5&oq=MSFS+Runway+Surface={00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBQgAEKIEMgUIABCiBDoKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzoHCAAQHhCiBEoECEEYAEoECEYYAFDuDVi7XGDJamgBcAF4AIAB8gGIAbsNkgEGMS4xMS4xmAEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz

https://www.google.com/search?q=msfs+runway+Surface={00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}+site:www.fsdeveloper.com&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj6zoWeoKv6AhVJAjQIHcwcBCwQrQIoA3oECAsQBA

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/tin-exclusion-polygon.453588/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/runway-start-points-issue.451051/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...vert-msfs-2020-bgl-files-to-xml.450677/page-4

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/mergedProjects/How_To_Make_An_Aircraft/Contents/Modelling/Airframe/Texturing/Surface_Detail.htm?rhhlterm=Surface=

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Developer_Mode/Scenery_Editor/Objects/Runway_Objects.htm?rhhlterm={00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}

...IIUC, one may infer (RWY) Surface={00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000} GUID is a 'transparent' Material Null Value placeholder.

In the context of a Water RWY, the surface IMHO, "should" be transparent, regardless of whether or not one opts to also add a Water Class Color "Material" as an additional attribute for a Polygon that is positioned with a display priority either above / below a RWY extent.


Perhaps SU10 SDK now requires all fields for RWYs to be 'populated' (even if with zeroes) in a XML declaration for RWY parameters ?

I'm not certain if placing / moving the NDB in ADE "caused" a RWY surface type string to change, or if it was merely incidental to a change in the behavior of the SU10 SDK fspackagetool or compiler in the latest build, and you happened to be one of the first to notice it ? :scratchch


BTW: IIRC, you recently mentioned 'placing' a NDB in this project; does a NDB already exist IRL, or is this a "fictional" ICAO ?

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/ade-unable-to-open-saved-project.455983/post-907551


Was the NDB implemented not only via 'routine' ADE airport code edits, but also via ADE ILS-type "Approach" code edits ? :alert:

https://www.google.com/search?q=sit...Bgc4HhDy0wN6BAgBEEA&biw=1120&bih=536&dpr=1.71


And, as others have not yet reported this NDB-related "change of RWY type", shouldn't one test further before blaming ADE ? :rolleyes:

You know the drill with rhumbaflappy: one might best PM him a link to the ADE project backup ZIP file ...so he can test it.

GaryGB
 
Last edited:

=rk=

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I would not call it "blame," unless it became determined that ADE did this with preconceived, malicious intent, in which case I'd blame ADE for singling out one of its most ardent supporters. I did start the thread in the ADE forum, in which Dick was a vocal and generous participant, the project is zipped there, but I don't want anyone to think I think they don't have much better things to do. I don't believe the addition of the NDB is causal in any way, I believe the supposed "hang" from its presence, is itself indicative of the actual issue.
BTW: IIRC, you recently mentioned 'placing' a NDB in this project; does a NDB already exist IRL, or is this a "fictional" ICAO ?

The airport exists and I believe the ICAO is correct, hower it's military and not well publicized. My only indication there is an NDB there are from pictures like this:

subi8-2021-03-24_19-04-49-1024x768.png


You can see in the upper left corner of both images, there is a large framework structure that looks like a power transmission tower. There are only two of such towers, on a very small island, with wires strung between them and a small shack right in the middle underneath. It looks like an NDB transmitter to me and it makes sense isolated out in open water. There are better pictures, but this is all I could link in a quick scan.

Thank you for the information about GUID and water runways, it is much as I suspected and again, I think this is another glitch, the airport surface is some three meters above the surrounding waves, the simulator will only allow me to select flaot planes and when I do, they are stuck on a very "solid" runway and I must slew up, so gear deploys, then slew back down and the plane will take off with dirt/runway effects, not water effects, so I think the label is only that, the "type listing," but it is not actually water, at all.

As to testing, I'll be doing a lot of copy/pasting xml, drop onto FSPt.exe, copy/paste Project contents into Community, load, select my airport, see if it allows me to start without pontoons, repeat. If I am patient enough, all that will be left when I am done, will be the little worm of code that started this all, which I can bundle up and offer to Jon for analysis.

Please tell me if I missed anything and wish luck, going down the rabbit hole. 🐇🕳️
 

=rk=

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Ok, getting back to anyone following here, the water runway glitch was solved by manually removing the NDB from the airport XML, that I had added with ADE, except FSPackagetool throws no warning flag whatsoever. Be advised that NDB transmitters and aquatic airports have next to nothing in common, beyond "airports," so an undesired water runway could be caused simply, by an unrecognized "element."

In other news, the big wow grass shading, appears to be a feature that has probably been available for some time, but due to the nuances of Asobo's "back burner" glitches, is only available at this particular location, to this particular developer, while actually editing the airport XML in DevMode and once "built" and placed in Community folder, it is no longer present:

what gives.jpg
 
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