MSFS24 Tarmac edge lights correct in msfs2020 - wrong in 2024

[Nordscape]

Hello. I am currently experiencing and issue with the edge lights following msfs2020 lightrow template. In msfs2020 they show as they should, with the emitting ball within the glass housing. However in msfs2024 the emitting ball is way up in the sky. I am also not seing the model. Any ideas why?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Vetle:

The MSFS 2024 SDK Docs links to "LightRows" are found here:

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/msfs2024/html/1_Introduction/Introduction.htm?rhsearch=lightrow


I have not yet had time to look through MSFS 2024 SDK Docs Samples and Tutorials to compare 'LightRows' workflow with 2020.


But perhaps the MSFS 2024 SDK Doc links to LightSupport objects info may help "elucidate" the topic as implemented in 2024:

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/msfs2024/html/1_Introduction/Introduction.htm?rhsearch=LightSupport


IIRC, the SDK Docs Search does not index the XML contents of Samples and Tutorials files.

But you may find a 2024 SDK compliant example use of the objects in question in Sample / Tutorial or default Airport XML.


Also to be considered is examining XML code for a recent 2024 SDK compliant add-on 3rd party Airport.


PS: An excellent "worked example" for MSFS 2024 airport lighting is Christian Bahr's Dortmund freeware package ...here:

https://www-bahrometrix-de.translat...tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc&_x_tr_sch=http

https://www-bahrometrix-de.translat...tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc&_x_tr_sch=http

GaryGB

 

[Nordscape]

Hi Vetle:

The MSFS 2024 SDK Docs links to "LightRows" are found here:

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/msfs2024/html/1_Introduction/Introduction.htm?rhsearch=lightrow


I have not yet had time to look through MSFS 2024 SDK Docs Samples and Tutorials to compare 'LightRows' workflow with 2020.


But perhaps the MSFS 2024 SDK Doc links to LightSupport objects info may help "elucidate" the topic as implemented in 2024:

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/msfs2024/html/1_Introduction/Introduction.htm?rhsearch=LightSupport


IIRC, the SDK Docs Search does not index the XML contents of Samples and Tutorials files.

But you may find a 2024 SDK compliant example use of the objects in question in Sample / Tutorial or default Airport XML.


Also to be considered is examining XML code for a recent 2024 SDK compliant add-on 3rd party Airport.


PS: An excellent "worked example" for MSFS 2024 airport lighting is Christian Bahr's Dortmund freeware package ...here:

https://www-bahrometrix-de.translat...tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc&_x_tr_sch=http

https://www-bahrometrix-de.translat...tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc&_x_tr_sch=http

GaryGB

Thanks Gary. The docs does not say anything about the difference between 2020 taxiway edge lights placement and how 2024 does that instead.

I have not had any issues with the lightrow/lightsupport function previously so I am considering just adding a different setup than the default template.

I will do some more testing today and see what can be figured out.

 

[Nordscape]

The issue seems to not be relevant to the light row template. I am having the mentioned issues with all light row objects. In 2020 they show as they should, but in 2024 they are elevated well above the ground, and not showing any models. I am currently not able to make this scenery 2024-compatible due to this issue which I have not encountered before. I have no idea how to troubleshoot and any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[GaryGB]

This section of the SDK Docs mentioned "Relative Position" and "Offset To Ground":

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/msfs2024/html/2_DevMode/Scenery_Editor/Objects/Airport_Objects.htm

Thus far, aside from another section on SimObjects which mentions "Offset" of attached Effect objects, I have not found MSFS SDK Docs leads that might relate to what you describe.

I did find this thread intriguing, however, as it describes LightRow object offsets when not proximal to a RWY axis extent:

https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/t/light-preset-mesh-relative-position/10082

GaryGB

 

[Nordscape]

I've made a FS Dev forum thread as well: https://devsupport.flightsimulator....n-2020-and-2024-altitude-specifically/15013/2

What I find curious is the fact that they are working as they should, and are offset correctly at the right altitude as well as its lateral placement within 2020 and not in 2024. I did not have any such issues with the previous projects but with this scenery they are very unreliable.

I did a clean and build which placed the light rows back into the ground in 2024, but somehow not all lights will show. That leads me to believe that there might be an elevation issue in those specific segments, but there are none. Its all flat...

There are no polygons, exclusion rectangles, or other mechanisms which interferes with the light rows as far as I can see.

Regarding the models not showing; After checking a post with the official msfs fs dev support forum, I was hinted towards a possible error with models using more nodes than one. I am abit unsure how many nodes I have in my sketchup models. A workaround is to place light rows with a light support rectangle using the "exclude light model" function, and instead use vector placement to place the models, but then my custom made lights did not show with the warning too many nodes - or something like that.

I've now manually placed the custom made edge lights and TLOF light, while also having placed a different light rows with light support. That is a workaround, but a time-consuming one, raising the question of how are light rows actually ment to be used with custom models

 

[Nordscape]

On a side note: I am also noticing a different issue with the fs2024 lights, especially in regards to vector placements within fs2020. The LOD is so strict, and seemingly especially with the use of vector placement, that streetlights and apron/terminal building lights pop in and out. I would almost say that my current testing concludes with vector placement within 2020 is not compatible with 2024 - but please prove me wrong...

Example: Flood lights are placed by me, using the EDHK lights library. THat is what showing here. You can also see the lamp models on the pole.

Here you see the lights from the vector placement popping in, while only adjusting the camera slightly:

 

[GaryGB]

This is subtle, but I see "Dark" underlying light splashes and a glow in the Ramp light, as well as light that floods over the Helipads.

Obviously they become much brighter when you shift the camera view angle, but in this case, final brightness level is OK in MSFS 2024.


By that I mean the brightness level is appropriate for the scene displayed in MSFS 2024 (unlike ENKH parking lots in MSFS 2024 vs. 2020)


I am not certain if this display anomaly may be due to coding requiring further revision by Asobo (since they say lighting is still a 'W.I.P.').


Christian Bahr recently showed an example of some display anomalies in daylight involving what IIUC was high resolution texture LODs.

An updated version of his post originally within another thread with a primary focus on 'Package Order Hints' ...is instead now found here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/custom-aerial-imagery-and-photogrammetry.460150/


He had an initial impression that the anomaly was related to having Photogrammetry display enabled in MSFS 2024, as others reported.

I was curious as to a work around for this by modifying transparency used in mapped texture images for Aprons / aerial imagery.

However, subsequent to our original discussion of the anomaly affecting Aprons and aerial imagery, Christian has updated his findings:

"If I turn off photogrammetry, this "transparency" disappears again. The airport is Dortmund Airport EDLW (freeware), but this effect can also be observed at other airports with a custom aerial image in photogrammetry areas. For example, EDDL Duesseldorf. It affects the entire airport area, including areas where no transparent apron textures exist."


So this compels (2) questions about the Heliport in your screenshot:

* Did you use transparency in the textures mapped onto custom Aprons and/or aerial imagery ?

...If so, how was it implemented (ex: Alpha channel, or 'other' types via MCX Material Editor) ?


* Did you have MSFS 2024 Photogrammetry enabled ?

GaryGB

 

[Nordscape]

This is subtle, but I see "Dark" underlying light splashes and a glow in the Ramp light, as well as light that floods over the Helipads.

The lights I believe you mention are the EDHK-light, placed by me. They were placed due to the streetlights not initially showing the lights splash on the ground during vector placement, but after the build. I was uncertain wether or not they automatically emitted lights, so I manually placed the EDHK-lights.

Obviously they become much brighter when you shift the camera view angle, but in this case, final brightness level is OK in MSFS 2024.

Those are the fs-base generic streetlamps showing on top of the EDHK-lights. As soon as I removed the generic streetlamps, the very bright and cool flood lights disappeared.

So this compels (2) questions about the Heliport in your screenshot:

* Did you use transparency in the textures mapped onto custom Aprons and/or aerial imagery ?

I have no transparent texture on anything that is on the ground.

...If so, how was it implemented (ex: Alpha channel, or 'other' types via MCX Material Editor) ?


* Did you have MSFS 2024 Photogrammetry enabled ?

Photogrammetry enabled, yes. But it is not present in the relevant area. Only generic "autogen" buildings there.

-Vetle

 

[GaryGB]

Have you seen any of the "Photogrammetry transparency anomaly" such as Christian Bahr shows in his screenshot here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/custom-aerial-imagery-and-photogrammetry.460150

...in your own scenery for MSFS 2024 in areas adjacent to photogrammetry ?

GaryGB

 

[Nordscape]

No, not with my sceneries.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Vetle:

Have you seen these threads ?

https://devsupport.flightsimulator....een-2020-and-2024-altitude-specifically/15013

https://devsupport.flightsimulator....de-of-multinode-mesh-2020-compatibility/10469

https://devsupport.flightsimulator....ering-light-nodes-2020-compatibility/10470/11

"

SLH
Nov 2024

Ensure they are one node, meaning all attached to each other by an edge. I just extrude a vertice to another part of the mesh and merge the vertices. And make sure you apply all transformations. That what i did to get mine to show. But your blender lights wont work due to a bug."


IIUC, a Sketchup equivalent of what SLH does, is to draw and 'weld' a line between adjacent LightRows ?

FYI: Very useful Sketchup Ruby plugin scripts / extensions:

Extrude Tools by TIG:

https://sketchucation.com/pluginstore?pln=ExtrudeTools


TIG-weld by TIG

https://sketchucation.com/pluginstore?pln=TIG-weld


Weld by Rick Wilson c/o smustard.com

https://web.archive.org/web/20161126110429/http://www.smustard.com/script/Weld


MSFS 2024 SDK Docs has 284 hits when I do a search on "Nodes", most of which relate to attaching lights to Aircraft and/or SimObjects.

Are you making your LightRow objects as SimObjects to implement Time-Of-Day display control ?


MCX Hierarchy Editor may help somewhat in showing Nodes, and ModelParts, but MCX by default "Optimizes" imported 3D models, and that loses original part names for 'Nodes', as MCX is not a full featured glTF Editor.

However, Arno has implemented an Option to disable the Optimization process, to allow retention of original Node / ModelPart Names from imported 3D models when accessed via MCX Hierarchy Editor:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/model-part-node-name.456461/post-910701


Related search results:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:+www.fsdeveloper.com+MCX+Hierarchy+Nodes&client=firefox-b-1-e&sca_esv=a19e3038bac685ef&channel=entpr&ei=mv2IaJ7uHunBp84P5reF2Q4&ved=0ahUKEwieo7v9xOKOAxXp4MkDHeZbIesQ4dUDCBA&oq=site:+www.fsdeveloper.com+MCX+Hierarchy+Nodes&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiLXNpdGU6IHd3dy5mc2RldmVsb3Blci5jb20gTUNYIEhpZXJhcmNoeSBOb2Rlc0i0ogFQ-wpYr44BcAF4AJABAJgBrAGgAfkYqgEFMTcuMTS4AQzIAQD4AQH4AQKYAh2gAtwXwgIOEAAYgAQYsAMYsQMYgwHCAg0QABiABBiwAxhDGIoFwgIIEAAYgAQYsAPCAgsQABiABBiwAxixA8ICDhAAGLADGOQCGNYE2AEBwgIXEC4YgAQYsAMYsQMY0QMYxwEYyAPYAQHCAhMQLhiABBiwAxhDGMgDGIoF2AEBwgIaEC4YgAQYsAMYsQMY0QMYgwEYxwEYyAPYAQHCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgIREC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYgwEYxwHCAgUQLhiABMICBBAAGAPCAgUQABiABMICDhAuGIAEGLEDGNEDGMcBwgILEAAYgAQYsQMYgwHCAgsQLhiABBixAxiDAcICCxAuGIAEGNEDGMcBwgIIEC4YgAQYsQPCAg4QLhiABBjHARiOBRivAcICDhAuGIAEGLEDGIMBGIoFwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAhAQLhiABBjRAxhDGMcBGIoFwgIfEC4YgAQY0QMYQxjHARiKBRiXBRjcBBjeBBjgBNgBAcICDRAAGIAEGLEDGEMYigXCAgcQLhiABBgKwgILEC4YgAQYxwEYrwHCAhQQLhiABBiRAhjHARiKBRiOBRivAcICERAuGIAEGLEDGIMBGMcBGK8BwgIjEC4YgAQYkQIYxwEYigUYjgUYrwEYlwUY3AQY3gQY4ATYAQHCAgoQABiABBixAxgKwgIHEAAYgAQYCsICBhAAGBYYHsICCxAAGIAEGIYDGIoFwgIIEAAYgAQYogTCAgUQABjvBcICBxAhGKABGArCAgUQIRigAcICCBAAGKIEGIkFwgIGEAAYDRgemAMAiAYBkAYTugYGCAEQARgJkgcFMTMuMTagB9rEAbIHBTEyLjE2uAfMF8IHCDAuNi4xNi43yAegAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
https://www.google.com/search?q=site:+www.fsdeveloper.com+MCX+Hierarchy+Nodes&client=firefox-b-1-e&sca_esv=a19e3038bac685ef&channel=entpr&ei=mv2IaJ7uHunBp84P5reF2Q4&ved=0ahUKEwieo7v9xOKOAxXp4MkDHeZbIesQ4dUDCBA&oq=site:+www.fsdeveloper.com+MCX+Hierarchy+Nodes&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiLXNpdGU6IHd3dy5mc2RldmVsb3Blci5jb20gTUNYIEhpZXJhcmNoeSBOb2Rlc0i0ogFQ-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&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


Sketchup has a type of Hierarchy viewer in its "Outliner" feature:

Related search results:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Ske...MC4xuAeYAcIHBTItMS4xyAcQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


Might we be seeing LightRow Groups and/or Components in Sketchup not "welded" before Export to MCX ?

Do you use "Arrays" to make multi-object LightRows from scratch in Sketchup, then tag as "Lights" in MCX ?


Regarding the another possibility for why MSFS SDK compiler sees "too many nodes", do you still do this ?:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ive-lights-render-distance.460027/post-934030

"adding an object to a lightrow"

...if so, is it "welded" to the LightRow, and have all sub-Groups / Components been 'Exploded' before export ?


PS: Regarding this...

https://devsupport.flightsimulator....n-2020-and-2024-altitude-specifically/15013/5


NightstalkerNOR
1d

"Thanks for the advice. I am not smart enough for Blender, so need to stick with Sketchup for now. I will see how I can approach the issue in the future."

IMHO, you are smart enough for Blender, and smart enough to use Sketchup instead for 'most' 3D modeling.


GaryGB