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Airport with different altitudes

E

erickcc319

Messages
5
Country
peru
Good morning to everyone.

I have one question please, there is a way to create an airport with two runways with different altitudes ( the difference is about 25 feet between runways, bot runways are parallel united with taxiways) with ADE for FSX? If not, wich program Can I use?.

Than You.

Erick.
 
erickcc319 said:
Good morning to everyone.

I have one question please, there is a way to create an airport with two runways with different altitudes ( the difference is about 25 feet between runways, both runways are parallel, united with taxiways) with ADE for FSX? If not, which program can I use?.

Thank You.

Erick.
Click to expand...

Hi Erick.

Yes you can do this with ADE; IMHO, version 1.79x is the best to use.

AI Traffic will not work on non-level ground; so assuming you are OK with that, you can make sloped flattens to modify the local terrain.

SBuilderX can also be used to make sloped flattens.

You may avoid making sloped flattens by instead using a high resolution custom terrain mesh from free source data to shape local ground.


What is the airport ICAO ?

GaryGB
 
Hi Gary.

Thank you for your quick answer :), the ICAO is SPJC in Perú.

Could you explain me in more detail, how can I achieve this, please?, Actually I have ADE 1.79 PRO.

About the AI traffic, not problem at all. But with the Vatsim/IvAO traffic also exists this problem ?

Regards.

Erick.
 
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erickcc319 said:
Hi Gary.

Thank you for your quick answer :), the ICAO is SPJC in Perú.

Could you explain me in more detail, how can I achieve this, please?, Actually I have ADE 1.79 PRO.

About the AI traffic, not a problem at all. But with the Vatsim/IvAO traffic also exists this problem ?

Regards.

Erick.
Click to expand...

Hi Erick:

Yes, SPJC ("SPIM" in FSX) is a large and interesting airport which could be made in more detail than the FSX default using ADE. :)

At the least, you would need to add the new RWY to the SW, and add connecting infrastructure.


What is your primary goal, for example:

* Correction of FSX default airport infrastructure to include accurate elevation, sloped RWYs, Taxiways, paved surfaces, and ground markings

* Airport infrastructure within airport boundary area only, or including surrounding city with accurate streets and buildings

* FSX default land class textures and Autogen outside airport boundary area.

* Personal use only (not for Public release), Public release (free), or Commercial release (product for sale).


Regarding VatSim/IVAO traffic:

Most activities in FSX default scenery assume use of the default FSX airport altitudes and approaches.

You may need to keep default altitudes and approaches if the group you fly with will not acknowledge updated airport infrastructure / altitudes.

If they will acknowledge updated airport infrastructure / altitudes for group activities, you may need to edit approach code in the airport XML.

IIRC, ADE provides a way to do that.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ADE...M0LjGgB-IGsgcDMy4xuAeTAw&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


FYI: This thread indicates that at least "some" VATSIM use of upgraded FSX airports is acceptable :

https://forum.vatsim.net/t/fsx-old-airports/4342

GaryGB
 
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Hi Gary,

This is going to be a Public release (free), I have everything done, new runways and stuff with the help of Google maps, now I need to know how to make the new runway with a different altitude and also if this affects to the VATSIM/ IVAO traffic.

Regards.
Erick.
 
See my reply above with regard to using ADE to edit approach code for VATSIM/ IVAO traffic.

If you will not have any AI aircraft attempting to navigate your custom SPJC / SPIM, you can use fully sloped RWYS end-to-end.

IIRC, ADE provides a way to do that too.


The Altitude of the RWY start locations can be assigned to published elevations in Meters AMSL for use of "sloped" RWYs.

One would wish to use an upgraded terrain mesh and perhaps also a local sloped flatten for realism to blend the RWYs into the surroundings.

The FSX default terrain mesh is only LOD-9 with elevation data points at 76.4 Meter intervals, which IMHO is lacking in realism.

There is freeware 38.2 Meter interval terrain mesh you can download and use; that is 2x as detailed as the 76.5 Meter terrain mesh.


I could not find any higher resolution data sets for Lima Peru online that could be used to make a custom terrain mesh.


One can fine tune the terrain mesh further and force it to a desired shape using "sloped flattens" ...if desired.

Let me know if that interests you, as you create a realistic Altitude for the RWYs at SPJC / SPIM, and blend them into surroundings.

GaryGB
 
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erickcc319 said:
Hi Gary,

This is going to be a Public release (free), I have everything done, new runways and stuff with the help of Google maps, now I need to know how to make the new runway with a different altitude and also if this affects to the VATSIM/ IVAO traffic.

Regards.
Erick.
Click to expand...

Hi again:

IIUC, you want to add a new SPJC RWY to a copy of FSX default SPIM, and ADE will not let you change Altitude from a default RWY ARP ?

Since AFAIK, you have a 'ProKey' installed in ADE version 1.79x, this can be done from: ADE Menu > Tools > Raw Data View.


However, forum threads on this issue, show there are (2) known ways to do this in FSX:

1.) Make an "_ALT" airport 'stub' BGL and place it in [FSX install path\Scenery\World\Scenery.

2.) Make a new airport (SPJC) with the new RWY and airfield SW of the existing default FSX RWY and airfield to the NE (SPIM)


If it were me, I would consider doing the latter procedure as George Davison (aka "GHD") had recommended <...Thanks George ! :wizard:>:

GHD

Post in thread 'Runway Altitude (not airport) editing. Is it possible.'

If you need to have runways at different altitudes, you need to create another airport with a different ICAO and the required altitude.
  • Like


Make a new airport (ex: SPJC) alongside a edited copy of SPIM; set their respective RWYs / Start Location Altitudes separately.

Allow the (2) airport ARP Test Radius sizes to overlap each other within the current real world overall airport boundary area.


Bear in mind that we always Exclude and Replace existing scenery, and let ADE make a copy of FSX default SPIM, and we never directly edit the multi-airport APX*.BGL containing FSX' SPIM.

Scruffyduck as author of ADE may recommend excluding some extra copied objects in a "Side-By-Side" airport modification such as this.


Some threads on this issue and workflow involving ADE:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/changing-airport-elevation-in-ade.18902/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/runway-elevation-problem.43039/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/runway-some-4-m-above-groundlevel-of-ap.447384/page-2

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/trying-to-change-stock-airport-altitude.459135/

https://prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=274884#p274884


Additional Google search links:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:+www.fsdeveloper.com+ADE+runway+with+different+altitude&sca_esv=99c99235e0cddbf1&source=hp&ei=nNT_Z6C7G7jP0PEPhKLDwAE&iflsig=ACkRmUkAAAAAZ__irK4rtsm8cjh_1eTZufbhheTRyIFh&ved=0ahUKEwig-cDP9tyMAxW4JzQIHQTREBgQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=site:+www.fsdeveloper.com+ADE+runway+with+different+altitude&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6IjxzaXRlOiB3d3cuZnNkZXZlbG9wZXIuY29tIEFERSBydW53YXkgd2l0aCBkaWZmZXJlbnQgYWx0aXR1ZGUyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABSLGgAlAAWLz9AXAAeACQAQCYAZQBoAGhJ6oBBTExLjM0uAEDyAEA-AEB-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&sclient=gws-wiz

GaryGB
 
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If you’re using ADE runways in FSX the runways themselves will need to be flat. That said, each runway can have its own elevation setting. That’s in the runway properties. To bring the land up to that altitude you would need to have the airport background flatten at the original altitude avoid that area and create a new flatten polygon in that area. These can be the sloped flattens that Gary mentions.
 
Hi Tom:

Indeed, it seems the trend towards use of "flat / level" RWYs for AI Traffic is pervasive even into MSFS development.


However, my thought was since ADE also has the ability to "slope" RWY surfaces as IRL at SPIM / SPJC, the OP may try this.

Of course, then one has an even more complex task making a sloped flatten to blend the RWY edges into surrounding terrain.

GaryGB
 
As far as I know, sloped runways are not available for FSX, only later Sims. I believe that is P3 D version five and above.
 
Indeed, the "official" feature option via ADE or BGLComp with sloped increments along the RWY axis is not there for FSX.

But RWY slope at the airport of interest is significant enough to merit including in FSX scenery, as the OP (like me) is OK w/ no AI.


I would make these as 3D G-Polys in Sketchup, and texture them with a BMP or DDS converted from a default RWY *.R8 file.

Then I would use a hidden mini RWY to get an ARP, and place start Locations at the sloped RWY ends.


Google Earth shows ...these Altitudes at RWY Ends (Start Locations):

SPIM IRL: ~40 Ft. NW, 104 Ft. SE

SPJC IRL: ~25 Ft. NW, 52 Ft. SE

GaryGB
 
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Good evening, Gary

Really appreciated your help.

May can I speak you for E-mail?, I would like to share with you my .bgl and .ad4 files and it would be nice and very appreciated if you can help me, as I don't understand to much in this items 😅

Regards.
Erick
 
Hi Erick:

You can send me a Direct Message (previously called 'Private Message' in the forum software).

If you have files that are too large to attach to a post here (even if already inside a ZIP file), post a link to the ZIP on a server.

MediaFire.com, DropBox.com, Google, Windows OneDrive etc. all have free accounts you can upload file(s) to for download.

Just use the 'Insert Link' feature when posting via Direct Message (aka "DM").

GaryGB
 
Hi again:

We discussed some options for your SPJC project, and agreed to share the discussion and work-flow with other FSX users.

I propose that you edit (2) copies of SPJC:

1 - becomes SPJC without SPIM

1 - becomes SPIM without SPJC

Each can have the IRL Altitudes for each RWY, as you stated you would prefer not to use flat / level default ADE RWYs.

erickcc319 said:
So I would like the first one " becomes SPJC without SPIM" and I would like to use sloped terrain and runways, and taxiways, I prefer you decide the best option for not problem with taxiways and stuff please.

Erick.
Click to expand...


We can slope the RWYs and set the Altitude for each end to match IRL Altitudes.

The edges of the RWYs can be blended into the taxiways and surrounding terrain at each airport.

That process can be done either in ADE, or in both ADE and SBuilderX, if you wish.


When we make the RWYs sloped, they can still be flat and level edge-to-edge, but not level along the RWY axis.

If we had a more detailed terrain mesh we could include "undulations" in the surface for realism, but we will not do so this time.

We can use a higher resolution photo-real (aka "PR") imagery to assist in our work; I will check to see how much time that may take to download and compile via SBuilderX.

PR imagery use would only be for personal and internal development purposes, as a license is needed for public distribution.


[EDITED]

I have made the PR imagery BGLs, and linked them for download via DM; we can discuss these after you download them.

I understand from your Direct Message ("DM") you may be out of town until Sunday; we'll discuss this further when we connect again. :)

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB
 
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