Airspace classification problem

[kevinfirth]

I've been using VoxATC which usually is very good. However, I've encountered a problem at my home airport of EGGP Liverpool, which I use the Uk2000 version of.

The problem: "I usually fly VFR from EGGP Liverpool, and what I'm used to is being handed off from Liverpool tower to Liverpool approach when departing the CTZ until I have passed the appropriate VRP. Vox asks me to change to en-route frequency straight from tower, missing out Liverpool approach? When returning to Liverpool, the reverse is true, in that rl I contact Liverpool approach who direct the entry to the zone via VRP and then hand off to tower when field in sight, whereas Vox instructs me to do an overhead join with comms going straight to tower!"

Developer's reply: "EGGP should have a class D control zone. The airspace around EGGP is not set as a type of terminal airspace and so VoxATC does not assign the correct airspace class but defaults to a UK ATZ where VFR flights are not required to contact approach when departing."

Could anyone give me a pointer or help me to learn how to set airspace type so I can get the correct procedures when flying please?

Thanks K

 

[chris]

It's ages since I've played with that stuff, but here's an airspace xml that you can drop onto bglcomp to generate a bgl file - goes in addon scenery of course.
You'll need to change the data obviously and you need editvoicepak to add the atc stuff if you want atc to talk to you. (for me VUNGTAU says Vung Tau, as in "Contact Vung Tau centre on yada yada yada".)
Ignore the FSData=9.0, this works for FSX.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<FSData version="9.0"
     xmlns:xsi='http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance'
     xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd" >

<Boundary
      type="CLASS_B"        
      name="VUNGTAU">
      <Origin
      lat="10.539599843"
      lon="107.344999909"/>
      <Circle
      index="0"
      radius="55560"
     minimumAltitudeType = "MSL" 
      altitudeMinimum="0"
      maximumAltitudeType = "MSL"
      altitudeMaximum="3300"/>
</Boundary>

</FSData>

 

[kevinfirth]

thx for the pointer, I've looked at a cpl of other historic threads, and it seems reasonably straightforward at least in theory!

Is it best to go with compiling a brand new addon bgl or to decompile the right default one, amend it and recompile??

Cheers K

 

[edphipps]

It is generally not a good idea to modify default files. As Chris suggests create the xml in Notepad and compile it with bglcomp. Just make sure to put the resulting bgl into a folder where it will load after the default for that area. Addon scenery/scenery probably will work fine.

Ed

 

[kevinfirth]

ok thanks, I've got the relevant co-ords from the UK AIP so it shouldn't be too difficult to create the xml and the bgl. Will my new bgl automatically override the default data though? With airspace classifications, its easy to have multiple definitions stacked on top of one another, so how does the sim know which it should use? It seems sensible to at least amend the original classifications that I'm replacing in the default files so there aren't any conflicts?
Cheers for any advice on this.. K

 

[chris]

It's all to do with what gets loaded last.
Of course you could always try it and see what happens...

 

[kevinfirth]

Here's my xml..

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<FSData version="9.0" xmlns:xsi='http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance' xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">
<Boundary type="CLASS_D" name="Liverpool CTR">
<BoundaryStart lat="53.50305" lon="2.68972" minimumAltitudeType="AGL" altitudeMinimum="0.0" MaximumAltitudeType="MSL" altitudeMaximum="25.0"/>
<Line lat="53.45222" lon="2.62888"/>
<Line lat="53.19166" lon="2.62888"/>
<Line lat="53.24083" lon="3.02777"/>
<Line lat="53.32333" lon="3.12638"/>
<Line lat="53.39194" lon="3.13444"/>
<Line lat="53.47138" lon="2.95527"/>
<Line lat="53.50305" lon="2.68972"/>
</Boundary>
</FSData>

When I try to compile it by dropping it on bglcomp I get a very brief DOS window which I managed to screen capture :s Can anyone give me any pointers on what I did wrong please? It's probably something very basic and schoolboy in nature!

Sorry, should add this was bglcomp from the P3D2 SDK... might that be the reason?

Thanks very much K

 

[GHD]

If you run it in a DOS box you will see the error:

Parsing document: Boundary.xml

INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR:  #C2033: XML Parse Error (line, column, error)

ERROR: 4, 142, The attribute 'MaximumAltitudeType' on this element is not defined in the DTD/Schema.
INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR:  #C2309: MaximumAltitudeType is NOT a valid token!
INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR:  #C2028: Invalid attribute! (MaximumAltitudeType)
INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR:  #C2432: Invalid attribute!

ERROR: MaximumAltitudeType
ERROR: MSL
INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR:  #C2032: XML Parse Error!  Element tree follows:

ERROR: <FSData
ERROR:  version = 9.0
ERROR: >
ERROR:  <Boundary
ERROR:          type = CLASS_D
ERROR:          name = Liverpool CTR
ERROR:  >
ERROR:          <BoundaryStart
ERROR:                  lat = 53.50305
ERROR:                  lon = 2.68972
ERROR:                  minimumAltitudeType = AGL
ERROR:                  altitudeMinimum = 0.0
ERROR:          >
ERROR:
INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR:  #C2606: Schema errors detected, compilation failed!

 

[kevinfirth]

Thanks George, That capitalised 'M' was a little bugger Now I have a bgl Thanks very much! K

 

[kevinfirth]

Now, Just to check before I used that bgl, I decompiled the default file BNXWorld0.bgl to check what the original data was in it. To my surprise the Liverpool CTR boundary is already correctly defined as Class D from surface to 2500ft (albeit a couple of the physical boundaries of that definition don't correspond to the up to date AIP). However, I have learned how to manage airspace definitions so thanks to all who contributed to either my problem here or earlier threads from which I learned a lot, thanks K

 

[mgh]

As a warning, I found that FSX doesn't model all airspace categories:

 

[kevinfirth]

thanks for that, I had seen it in another thread but havent figured out yet how to work around any limitations. I'm guessing it will involve substitutions where workable and some airspace will just have to be incomplete? K

 

[mgh]

Yes, Microsoft didn't realise that there is lot of Class A airspace outside the USA.

 

[kevinfirth]

Looking through the decompiled xml for one of the default data files (BNXWorld01.bgl or something similar) there is quite a lot of class A airspace defined for the UK, although by no means all of it! Is it just that the default ATC isnt able to recognise or work with it then?

@mgh I saw on a previous thread a couple of years ago you said: "I've created an application that enables me to cut-and-paste from the UK AIP with little manual intervention and automatically create .xml and .bgl files. I've created London and Manchester TMAs so far." I wondered if you would be willing to share your application at all please?

Thanks K

 

[mgh]

I checked out and I found that quite a lot of airspace isn't modelled in FSX. I simply compiled .xml to .bgl file for all FSX airspace and some some just didn't display on the map.

Someone also asked for that application but I'm afraid I've lost it - following two changes of pc and a crash

 

[kevinfirth]

darn it thanks for the info anyway! I'm intending to use the data in the PlanG flight planner anyway, so whether it works in the default FSX/P3D planner doesnt matter that much to me..

Cheers K

 

[mgh]

Does PlanG use the missing airpace boundaries?

 

[kevinfirth]

yes it shows everything i think, but definitely class A

 

[mgh]

I never knew that! It suggests the the airspace boundaries are in the .bgls but that FSX doesn't process them.

 

[kevinfirth]

Some class A airspace is defined in the default data yes. The default data does not contain all the airspace and information in the UK AIP though, and the info that it does contain dates back to 2006.