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basic steps for a noob

S

sinzov

Messages
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germany
Hi,
once upon a time i used to do sceneries. the sequence was quite simple and life was easy:

fs1.jpg


now in the new (xml-)world i get confused: loads of tools, gmax-, xml-. mdl-, lib-files - how are they connected, how are they to be converted ? i need some help to figure out a similar step-by-step-process, both for FS9 and FSX:

fs2.jpg


sry for the basic questions

thx for your understanding ;-)
sinzov
 
Hi,

For what concerns GMAX (creating objects and scenery) you can find a lot of guidance in the WIKI here on fsdeveloper. :)
Setup, exemples, possibilities and so on... for FS2004 and FSX.

Greetz. José.
 
Hi,

thx for the hint. gmax seems to be very difficult, and so i bought FSDS. i am looking for some sort of general tutorial, the wiki does not really help. what puzzles me is the amount of tools and their use - which are necessary, which not.

greetings
sinzov
 
Hi,

I think the process is not much more complex than before, it is just different.

In your object modelling program (GMax or FSDS) you make the objects and then you export them as a MDL file. This is a bit similar to the old API macro. Only to be able to use them in the scenery you need to put them in an object library. For that you need to put them in an object library. My Library Creator XML tool gives you a GUI to do this. As an output a BGL file will be created with your objects that goes into the scenery folder.

Then comes the placement. This will create a second BGL file that positions the objects you made at a certain location in the world. Tools that can be used for this are WhisPlacer or other placement tools. Or by using ADE you can also combine it with your airport design activities. Out of this comes a second BGL that goes into your scenery folder.
 
Once upon a time I had the urge to say the same things as you are saying right now. And I still do once in a while.
I have now reached a point where I am able to do the same things I could do in FS9 and some very interesting things more. It takes a while but you'll get there.
Hang on.
 
Hi all,
many thx for your advice. it cleared some of my problems. so i shall give "xml" a try (2 years ago i lost all my sceneries & apis incl. the source files, onlythe bgl are still with me ;-)

thx again
sinzov
 
@ Robystar

I've been away from scenery for a few years, when you say you are accomplishing in fsx what you had in fs9, do you mean you know how to do seasonal variants and conditional animation?

When I was doing scenery right after fsx came out, these seem to be impossible.

Best,
Bob
 
Bob,

To answer your question: no I do not. I mean I have not tried it yet, but in FS9 I had not tried these things either. It might help if you tell the wise men here what exactly you would like to have accomplished. But I would be a novice in this respect as well. But then, I wonder how you did this in FS2002 with EOD and FSSC? EOD still works with FSX by the way.

Rob
 
robystar said:
It might help if you tell the wise men here what exactly you would like to have accomplished.
Click to expand...

Rob, your comment seems to have an edge to it. I hope you found no reason to be offended by my question. I simply was seeking information on what had been discovered possible in fsx since my absence.

My concerns about fsx scenery design capability is pretty much what I've already asked, seasonal variation to both mdl files and terrain, and conditional animation, such as...having a hangar door open when the aircraft reaches a set location..or having a model rotate to always face the aircraft.

Now about how these were done in fs9, that's fully documented here in the wiki. The "wise men" as you describe them don't need me to tell them how to do this, they taught me. I've never used EOD, so I can't discuss that tool. I've only used GMAX for 3d objects since whenever it was written. FSDS before that. In GMAX animation is described in the user documentation, and converting that to conditional animation was the role for Arno's utility called "CAT".

Seasonal variants on objects was accomplished though a tweak to the ASM code, if I remember correctly. Seasonal variations on fs9 terrain was accomplished through a command line in the resample tool (if memory serves me correctly).

But....according to memory, all this was "broken" or overlooked when fsx was released, which was a great dissapointment to me. Then I went to Grad School so no time for fs anyway.

Now I'm reading the boards to learn what was learned since I dropped away. Your post could have represented much progress, however, if you hadn't tried these techniques in fs2004, then I understand that I got my hopes up without reason.

Can you advise why you wrote the edgy words in quotes above? I've reread my post to you, and it seems like the simple innocent question that I meant it to be.

Best,
Bob
 
Bob - I think there's a bit of "language barrier" here, nothing more. In American English, I will agree, the way the sentence was phrased carries an "edge", However, I did a quick mental translation into my native language and back into American English, and really come up with "Hey, I don't completely understand what you're trying to say that you want to do in FS-X, but maybe if you explain it better, one of the guys in here (that live, breathe all this stuff) can give you a better answer than I can".




bob5568 said:
Can you advise why you wrote the edgy words in quotes above? I've reread my post to you, and it seems like the simple innocent question that I meant it to be.

Best,
Bob
Click to expand...
 
Sorry if there seemed to be an edge in my reply to you, I am sorry. I assure you none was intended. Felix translated my meaning correctly. This site has a lot of contributors that know a lot more than I do about these things (And you were the one that mentioned EOD).
I was kind of hoping one of the wise men here would indeed step in and hellp you out. But for that I thought they might want some more info on what you were looking for exactly.
My apologies for making my reply controversial.:)
 
Thanks both to you and Felix for the language bridge.

I forget sometimes that some folks are using a secondary language here. Thank's to those putting out that effort so we can all exchange thoughts. I'm spoiled with English being my native tongue and the apparent language of choice for international business.

@ Felix....you would likely know the answers to my question. Has there been any discoveries in the last two years that make it possible to add seasonal variants to either 3d objects or terrain in fsx? And is conditional animation been "invented" yet for 3d objects in fsx?

Thanks!
Bob
 
Hi Bob,

I think I have found an answer to your questions by stumbling on the following:
(I quote a comment of Bill Womack of a couple of months ago)

"I can't speak for FSDS, but in FSX itself, we lost the ability to code conditions into scenery objects. That means no seasonal textures, no rotate to user, and no conditional animations. There's some hope on some of these counts with third-party products in development, but for now the answer, sadly, is you can't do it in true FSX MDL files.
__________________
Bill Womack "

Hope he is wrong.

PS I mixed up your questions and Zinsov's questions earlier on. It was Zinsov that mentioned EOD.
 
Thanks Rob,

At least Bill references some 3rd party dev work trying to solve those limitations. Before ACES got canned, I was ready to write fsx off and wait till the next version, but given the current circumstance, I'm looking back into fsx.

Cheers,
Bob
 
I gotta say, and I have said it before...

I wish that someone, and I know that SOMEONE here on this board KNOWS someone that is still inside MS.....would get the inside scoop.

I mean, and I don't care what any of you insiders say...cause you are wrong... MSFS is a dead product (and by this, I simply mean, they are done with it. They will not produce any more, they will not improve it, they will not fix major bugs, they won't offer support for problems other than MAYBE installation problems) .... or, someone that does know someone inside can try and make a case that because MS has ended MSFS as it is and ever was known.... that people NOT employed by MS should be allowed to get in it and fix those problems. I am sure there are people very capable of doing it and most would probably do it for free!!!! My God, even if they let the EX ACES team fix some of the stuff.

Maybe the ACES team feel like they have an unfinished product and WANT to fix it. Maybe they don't.

I guess I just don't understand the thinking of a company that would end a product that is full of bugs, and while 10's of 1000's of people use it, tell those people that the problems must be allowed to exist and they have no right to fix them.

I mean, seriously, if it were my product, why would I care if other people WANT to make it better? (And I have written all this to MS, as if they read any complaints sent to them) I would be honored that people wanted to improve on something I created. But again, I guess I just think wrongly.

These are my thoughts, and while I am sure they are shared by many if not most, they are only mine. I speak for no one else and I would just like MS to stand up and give an explanation of their decision. Cause the one given, is not even an explanation.

- Greg
 
I wish that someone, and I know that SOMEONE here on this board KNOWS someone that is still inside MS.....would get the inside scoop.
Click to expand...

Assuming that anyone does know - and that is a big assumption - there would be the small matter of NDA's :)
 
Jon... I agree..it's an assumption based on comments made by people on here of things they know... And while MS could tie anything up in courts long enough to bankrupt most individuals, NDA's pretty much are garbage on paper in the USA. 99% of all NDA lawsuits are lost by the people trying to enforce them. They are mostly a scare tactic.

I have successfully gotten out of 3 NDA and 2 NCA's (non-compete agreements.) And while some people may think that is just wrong, you don't know the circumstances. The crappy thing, at least here in the US, is that if you work for a company, and let's say a year before you start working for them you start a project at home..... now, after 5 years busting your butt for the company, you also finally finish your project. Here, in MOST cases, your project belongs to the company. It's total BS and beyond wrong, but it happens every day. When I worked for Heinz, I created my own salad dressing. I had started working on this when I was in High school, 20 years before ever working for Heinz. I was told that based on the agreements I signed with them, my work belonged to them. I quit, sued and won my case. But, it cost me almost everything.

Anyways, LOL this has nothing to do with anything, but I wasn't even really thinking about the NDA's...more of if I knew someone on the inside, I would do my best to secure permission to talk with whomever and provide correct info to the people that care. Us. But, then again, I am all for taking down another NDA or NCA. LOL

- Greg
 
Ethical issues aside, it is likely that for those who've signed an NDA it's also a case of enlightened self-interest...

...'cause once someone's been identified as one who won't honor an NDA, their chances of ever being granted such a privilege again have been reduced to less than zero...

...in addition to which their reputation among honest simmers would take a nose dive. After all, who would trust anyone who couldn't keep a :ziplip:
 
Bill, Again, you can't judge anyone (you being anyone you..) if you don't know circumstances behind whatever they do. In my personal case, there were very good reasons, thus, the reason I won. Anyone can make up a NDA or NCA, but in the US, no company or person can keep another from working in the field they work in. They just can't. So you can sign a NCA, work for say a cleaning company... leave that company, and work for the cleaning company next door to the first one. They will never get a NCA to stick.

NDA's are a bit trickier, however, again, it depends on what it is. If I work for a graphics design company, I can't leave and tell their secrets to another company. But, I can leave and start my own company and use what I learned there. They can't stop that. Again, no court (well, maybe courts in California) would ever allow the first company to say sorry bout your luck, you can't make those.

I have hired people that have broken NCA's. Has nothing to do with ethics. Has to do with they could do the job and I needed people. Business. Plain and simple. I have had people leave me and go to another company and do the same job. Welcome to the world. It happens. I don't get upset about it. I hire someone else.

There are no holier than thou people in any industry. Not even our beloved flight sim designing industry. I can't stand when people (and I have met a few) think they are perfect and would never do anything wrong. Look long enough, and you can find that they do, have, and probably will again.

Quick personal example. I own Photoshop. But I used it for 4 months before I paid 1500.00 for it. Does that make me a criminal? I made damned sure that I was going to use and need what I was about to dump that much money on. And their trial period is a joke, as are most. I now own the entire suit of their products. And paid a fortune for it. But, again, I used it longer than the trial period. And the one part I found I would never need, I deleted off my computer.

I also now have 3DSMax.. Got it from my neighbor and friend who is a design artist. But, he doesn't use it anymore. He bought the new one. So he gave me his old one with his license code. Does that make me wrong? It's paid for. And the person that paid will never use it again. Gave me the dvd and had already deleted it off his system. Just like if I bought it at a garage sale from someone. It's mine. Regardless of what I paid or didn't pay. It's his to do with what he wants. And if you don't agree...don't ever sell anything in the state of Ohio, because that is how our laws are written. It can only be on ONE computer...but it can be on ANY ONE computer. And that goes against most bogus agreements for software. I love Ohio!!!!!

- Greg
 
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