FS2004 Boeing 747 Classic

[arwasairl]

I've been following this project since the beginning and wow it's truly amazing how much progress is being made! Take my money already!

Are there any plans for a retrofit/glass cockpit version like some airliners did to their 747 classics in the late 90's/early 2000's?
View attachment 100763
picture by airliners.net

Would be fun for 'modern' cargo ops! But I guess that would take a ton of time.

There are no plans for this in the foreseeable future, not only for an EFIS cockpit but any kind of FMS or nav system that requires a nav database (that goes for an LTN-92).

The reason being is that we have no way to update the navigation database. Navigraph have not shown interest in this project (I dont necessarily blame them, its an FS2004 project) but because of that, I dont have any starting data to work with and users will not be able to update the database anyways even if I did have this data.

Not to mention that the default scenery in FS9 is horribly out of date. I am aware aero.sors.fr has an update tool, but it only updates navaids, fixes, and EU airports only. Airports outside of the EU are not updated hence making an FMS with the latest navdata useless in 70% of the world. Even addon scenery for FS9 is horribly out of date too.

And to my knowledge, Navigraph does not have access to the cycle date that would have been relevant when FS9 first came out (cycle 0301). When Navigraph was first founded in 2003, they only had charts products and no AIRAC cycle products back then. And from what I heard, their contract with Jeppesen doesn't necessarily extend to them having free access to this data either.

That would be nice, but doing so would require remodeling the VC.
It’s easier to create a retrofit version featuring a digital VSI/TCAS and a digital altimeter.
Some of the last 747s my father flew were equipped with a digital VSI/TCAS,digital altimeter, digital HSI, and a tape-style radio altimeter

The VC is not that much work; in fact, it would be the easiest and fastest part of making something like this. It does not need a "remodel".

 

[Jon00]

There are no plans for this in the foreseeable future, not only for an EFIS cockpit but any kind of FMS or nav system that requires a nav database (that goes for an LTN-92).

The reason being is that we have no way to update the navigation database. Navigraph have not shown interest in this project (I dont necessarily blame them, its an FS2004 project) but because of that, I dont have any starting data to work with and users will not be able to update the database anyways even if I did have this data.

Not to mention that the default scenery in FS9 is horribly out of date. I am aware aero.sors.fr has an update tool, but it only updates navaids, fixes, and EU airports only. Airports outside of the EU are not updated hence making an FMS with the latest navdata useless in 70% of the world. Even addon scenery for FS9 is horribly out of date too.

And to my knowledge, Navigraph does not have access to the cycle date that would have been relevant when FS9 first came out (cycle 0301). When Navigraph was first founded in 2003, they only had charts products and no AIRAC cycle products back then. And from what I heard, their contract with Jeppesen doesn't necessarily extend to them having free access to this data either.



The VC is not that much work; in fact, it would be the easiest and fastest part of making something like this. It does not need a "remodel".

I thought it would be difficult (it is for me).
Do you think it's possible for you to implement ground support equipment (like in Posky)?

 

[arwasairl]

Blow in doors for the 3A.

 

[Jon00]

Blow in doors for the 3A.

View attachment 100772

You're are a legend.
For statistical purposes, I can tell you that the last aircraft produced with the -3 was a SAS -283B on 28 October '71.
According to my list, there is no "F" model with the -3.

Now that I recall the -3 has a different sound from the other JT9s—
shouldn't it be much louder with the air intakes open? (That’s how it was on the 707s).
I imagine it's impossible to find a video of the -3s, but if anyone has an idea of which sound to use, perhaps they could help me sample it to create a proper sound pack.

 

[arwasairl]

In light of finding out all the surging quirks of the -3A, I also found out our current engine model is simply too barebones to properly give the terribleness that is the -3A.

With that comes an entirely new engine model. Luckily, our current data we had was already accurate, so it was just a matter of picking the right model to fit around existing data. The performance of the new engines are within 0.1% of the original model's behaviors, but now with a few added bonuses:

• Components within the engines are now failable
• Engine surging due to high crosswinds and low intake airstream whilst slamming the throttles forward is simulated (requires slower ramp up in high crosswinds due to vortexes)
• High AoA engine surging with damaged component boxes simulated
• FOD damage due to prolonged reverser operation at low speeds simulated

And, a completely new monitoring panel for the engines. I will make the other systems (electric, hydraulic, etc.) also with these pretty graphics, but for now, the engines are the only ones to have this.

Now the -3A has a much better basis for simulation.

 

[ASCTU744]

Doc Donaldson UAL 744 Oral prep
The 744 community had these video's to prep for their orals, incl systems and FMA ops
Does the 747 CL have something similar?

 

[arwasairl]

2 new windows have added; though this time, this was merely just adding the menus. This level of simulation for the INS units themselves were implemented already.

This is the first GDI+ window, which adds 3D gyroscope animations and accelerometer/error map vectors. This is probably the coolest menu in my opinion

Below is a video of the INS monitors with the INS and a FAST ALIGN feature. Keep in mind, these are 2D panels that are viewable in the sim; these are not external programs!

 

[ASCTU744]

Nice!!!! Please post a vid showing us all the panels, a landing, moving the cam around.

 

[jt23]

I will most likely never fly this because I struggle with learning to fly the older equipment, but I just want to say it's really cool to see someone making this aircraft for the sim. It gives me hope that we may one day have the modified SP version of the 747 with the NASA telescope and cargo door that opens. Which is something I have always wanted. I know it has an older cockpit as well, but it would still be awesome to have to simulate those types of flights.

Keep up the good work!!

 

[Jon_aus]

I will most likely never fly this because I struggle with learning to fly the older equipment, but I just want to say it's really cool to see someone making this aircraft for the sim. It gives me hope that we may one day have the modified SP version of the 747 with the NASA telescope and cargo door that opens. Which is something I have always wanted. I know it has an older cockpit as well, but it would still be awesome to have to simulate those types of flights.

Keep up the good work!!

The only aircraft I fly are the classics. Using VOR to VOR or INS. It’s makes the flying so much more rewarding rather than ‘press and forget’ modern autopilots etc.

 

[jt23]

The only aircraft I fly are the classics. Using VOR to VOR or INS. It’s makes the flying so much more rewarding rather than ‘press and forget’ modern autopilots etc.

To each their own. I can still appreciate them, though.

 

[Jon_aus]

To each their own. I can still appreciate them, though

Indeed. However if it’s a learning thing, it just takes some patience. I struggled with understanding the CIVA INS for a long time. Patience, practice and more practice is key. The rewards are great though.

 

[jt23]

Indeed. However if it’s a learning thing, it just takes some patience. I struggled with understanding the CIVA INS for a long time. Patience, practice and more practice is key. The rewards are great though.

Oh yeah, I'm sure if I actually sat down with it and did practice flights while watching tutorials, I could eventually get it. Though I think I struggle with focus sometimes (ADHD). It's part of the same reason I don't fly any Airbus and stick with modern Boeings. To be honest, though, even with the Boeing aircraft, I don't know everything. For example, I still don't know how to start the planes from cold & dark yet I was able to make a custom STAR for Area 51 that I could use in the PMDG planes. I usually just program my flight in the FMC and do the performance calculations on the EFB, then fly. I also used to do manual landings in P3D with them and was fairly good at it, but I find I struggle more with them in MSFS. So I don't always use the AP.

 

[Hiroshi Igami]

Just for a info.
Blow in door is just pressed outside by a spring and opens by the air pressure
So make it like when N1's speed is high , opens.
Why I know is JT9D-3AW was at Narita's Aeromuseum before (Now it's under the sheet near museum's warehouse)
And I asked how it's controled.
Museum's guy just pressed in and he let me do it too.
I think I still have some closeup shots so if needed , ask me.

 

[Jon00]

Just for a info.
Blow in door is just pressed outside by a spring and opens by the air pressure
So make it like when N1's speed is high , opens.
Why I know is JT9D-3W was at Narita's Aeromuseum before (Now it's under the sheet near museum's warehouse)
And I asked how it's controled.
Museum's guy just pressed in and he let me do it too.
I think I still have some closeup shots so if needed , ask me.

So, should it open due to the suction created by the N1?
Could the force of the air at a certain speed(maybe 100kn) open it even with a low N1?

 

[arwasairl]

So, should it open due to the suction created by the N1?
Could the force of the air at a certain speed(maybe 100kn) open it even with a low N1?

No, because these doors open due to differential pressure. At high speeds (high inlet ram air) but no inlet compression, delta P between the inlet and free stream is near zero, which causes the doors to stay closed.

It is a spring loaded door, meaning there is a resistance factor that wants to stay shut. The difference in inlet pressure due to low ram air at low speed but high N1 is what causes the doors to open.

This is also AOA dependent, and can cause only parts of the doors to open as inlet vortexes can cause pressure differentials along the inlet cylinders.

 

[Jon00]

No, because these doors open due to differential pressure. At high speeds (high inlet ram air) but no inlet compression, delta P between the inlet and free stream is near zero, which causes the doors to stay closed.

It is a spring loaded door, meaning there is a resistance factor that wants to stay shut. The difference in inlet pressure due to low ram air at low speed but high N1 is what causes the doors to open.

This is also AOA dependent, and can cause only parts of the doors to open as inlet vortexes can cause pressure differentials along the inlet cylinders.

View attachment 100804

Thanks for the explanation; I thought the flaps were controlled by throttle movement, like the exhaust nozzles on a turbojet.
How will you simulate that in FS9?

 

[arwasairl]

Thanks for the explanation; I thought the flaps were controlled by throttle movement, like the exhaust nozzles on a turbojet.
How will you simulate that in FS9?
View attachment 100805

I already simulate inlet vortex as well as mass airflow. Calculating delta P between freestream and inlet will not be too difficult.

As I already mentioned before, I am using a custom engine model. I am not using FS9 engine calculations anymore.

 

[FuelJettison744]

Oh yeah, I'm sure if I actually sat down with it and did practice flights while watching tutorials, I could eventually get it. Though I think I struggle with focus sometimes (ADHD). It's part of the same reason I don't fly any Airbus and stick with modern Boeings. To be honest, though, even with the Boeing aircraft, I don't know everything. For example, I still don't know how to start the planes from cold & dark yet I was able to make a custom STAR for Area 51 that I could use in the PMDG planes. I usually just program my flight in the FMC and do the performance calculations on the EFB, then fly. I also used to do manual landings in P3D with them and was fairly good at it, but I find I struggle more with them in MSFS. So I don't always use the AP.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHqfKkD0G5Q8&si=6psFVVvv3-8MNqzj

I recommend watching the 727&734 start vids first, the doc donaldson 747 stuff goes into the systems and FMA

 

[jt23]

Oh yeah, I'm sure if I actually sat down with it and did practice flights while watching tutorials I could eventually get it. Though I think I struggle with focus sometimes (ADHD). It's part of the same reason I don't fly any Airbus and stick with modern Boeings. To be honest, though, even with the Boeing aircraft, I don't know everything. For example, I still don't know how to start the planes from cold & dark. I usually just program my flight in the FMC and do the performance calculations on the EFB, then fly. I also used to do manual landings in P3D with them, but I find I struggle more with them in MSFS.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHqfKkD0G5Q8&si=6psFVVvv3-8MNqzj

I recommend watching the 727&734 start vids first, the doc donaldson 747 stuff goes into the systems and FMA

Thanks, I will check it out.