P3D v4 Cant get water to show at airport?

[Delta620]

So I'm trying to revamp an airport I built a few years ago. This is 69Bravo, a firefighting helibase in California. I'm trying to put some water polygons down to simulate water. But nothing I do makes it appear. Any ideas? This is in P3DV4.

 

[Chris Eve]

Not familiar with P3DV4 specifically, but just wondering if you've got a photo base polygon for the airport background?
If so, it may over-ride your water polygons and you may need to "cut a hole" in the background polygon so's the water can show through.

 

[Delta620]

I did the .tif file with white background and black holes for water, did the _w on the file name. The holes show up on the photoreal BGL but no water even though its placed in ADE. I do have a flatten poly below the water, would that cancel out the water?

 

[tgibson]

As a test, try adding an exclude polygon to exclude any land in that square area. If that works, you may need to then create land polygons around the water to re-create the land around it.

 

[Delta620]

Would that be under Exclude general, specific, or landclass? I tried an excluded everything poly and that did nothing.

 

[Delta620]

Still no luck. This is what I have in ADE. The grey box on the left is the exclude everything. But what shows up is just regular ground through my photoreal blg.

 

[Chris Eve]

You might like to try a "ground-up" approach ... start with no scenery at all and just create a puddle that actually shows up in your default scenery, then add your scenery components, a level at a time, until your puddle disappears.
That might give you an idea of where intervention is needed.

 

[GaryGB]

Both of the approaches by Tom and Chris may help sort out the scenario.

But I would be inclined to first try stacking CVX LC Water Polygons on top of the local default LC Land texture, so it will be available to display Water instead of Land from underneath the custom photo-real aerial imagery where you cut a 'hole'; otherwise at run time you nay see Land instead of Water textures.

Also consider that a Hydro attribute cannot be applied to the top of a 3D model of the Helo water bomber refilling tanks, and can only be displayed on true terrain mesh / TIN terrain surfaces

I am not certain if a AttachPoint Platform object with a hardened concrete attribute added via MCX Attached Object Editor, would allow display of a Hydro attribute and Water Class texture on the top Face of the refilling water tanks.

But that may be worth trying, as Platforms in FS2Kx are internally processed as terrain, and locally change Altitude AGL; AFAIK, that same Platform processing by the FS rendering engine may be true in P3Dv4.

Be aware that a fake water texture applied to the top Faces of the water tanks would likely be opaque, thus not showing any Water Class texture or Hydro attribute underneath those refilling tanks, so the water texture on the top of those tanks would need to be made transparent via the Alpha channel of the fake water texture file mapped onto the tank top Faces.

GaryGB

 

[Delta620]

Even if I remove the photoreal bgl it doesnt show up, no polygons besides the water in ADE either. Also I'm trying to put the water below the 3D object, not on top of it. The water elevation is set the same as the ground elevation. The objects are merely to hide it.

Both of the approaches by Tom and Chris may help sort out the scenario.

But I would be inclined to first try stacking CVX LC Water Polygons on top of the local default LC Land texture, so it will be available to display Water instead of Land from underneath the custom photo-real aerial imagery where you cut a 'hole'; otherwise at run time you nay see Land instead of Water textures.

Also consider that a Hydro attribute cannot be applied to the top of a 3D model of the Helo water bomber refilling tanks, and can only be displayed on true terrain mesh / TIN terrain surfaces

I am not certain if a AttachPoint Platform object with a hardened concrete attribute added via MCX Attached Object Editor, would allow display of a Hydro attribute and Water Class texture on the top Face of the refilling water tanks.

But that may be worth trying, as Platforms in FS2Kx are internally processed as terrain, and locally change Altitude AGL; AFAIK, that same Platform processing by the FS rendering engine may be true in P3Dv4.

Be aware that a fake water texture applied to the top Faces of the water tanks would likely be opaque, thus not showing any Water Class texture or Hydro attribute underneath those refilling tanks, so the water texture on the top of those tanks would need to be made transparent via the Alpha channel of the fake water texture file mapped onto the tank top Faces.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

I downloaded your prior (FSX) version of this add-on here:

https://simviation.com/1/search?submit=1&keywords=69Bravo-1.zip&categoryId=


If I display only your custom Airport with photo-real imagery, but without any CVX Vectors or 3D models, no "Hydro" attribute displays.

I note as well, that there is no "Hydro" attribute in the custom photo-real Land Class layer to allow display of water / waves etc.

That indicates Masks may not be implemented in the INF and/or imagery source files; or if they are, FSX is not able to display them.


It appears a "Hole" was not successfully implemented in the above cited FSX version of your add-on, as the photo-real shows 'imagery'.

If a hole was achieved, default LC textures (Land or Water) would show through from underneath your custom photo-real Land Class.

If a CVX Vector Water Class Polygon was successfully placed in position underneath the photo-real imagery, we would see its color.


If you would be willing to attach or link to the source files for your FSX add-on, we can troubleshoot this further.

I also believe you may not need to make another version for P3D if you do not wish to, as these BGL features should display in both sims.

GaryGB

 

[Delta620]

Hi again:

I downloaded your prior (FSX) version of this add-on here:

https://simviation.com/1/search?submit=1&keywords=69Bravo-1.zip&categoryId=


If I display only your custom Airport with photo-real imagery, but without any CVX Vectors or 3D models, no "Hydro" attribute displays.

I note as well, that there is no "Hydro" attribute in the custom photo-real Land Class layer to allow display of water / waves etc.

That indicates Masks may not be implemented in the INF and/or imagery source files; or if they are, FSX is not able to display them.


It appears a "Hole" was not successfully implemented in the above cited FSX version of your add-on, as the photo-real shows 'imagery'.

If a hole was achieved, default LC textures (Land or Water) would show through from underneath your custom photo-real Land Class.

If a CVX Vector Water Class Polygon was successfully placed in position underneath the photo-real imagery, we would see its color.


If you would be willing to attach or link to the source files for your FSX add-on, we can troubleshoot this further.

I also believe you may not need to make another version for P3D if you do not wish to, as these BGL features should display in both sims.

GaryGB

Yes, my original version I didn't try adding any water to so there was no layer mask or cutout. This is a new excursion I'm trying for our aerial firefighting group. Let me package up the current project and send it over so you can see. In the new and current photoreal bgl you can see the circles cutout in the sim but the water polygons are not displaying. I've attached the ADE project file as well.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

I am independently re-constituting the photo-real area used in your project; yours appears to be Google Satellite imagery at Zoom level 19.

The file name cited by the background image load error in ADE when opening the *.AD4 cites imagery at zoom level "20" from SBuilderX.


If you ZIP and attach / link to a SBuilderX Project file (*.SBP) and Export a SBuilderX Exchange file (*.SBX), I can download the same tiles.


To sort out Mask issues present as confounding factors aside from a possible CVX Vector "Hole" issue, imagery source files are needed too.

If you also ZIP / link to your SBuilderX "L20*.BMP" imagery, Land/Water Mask *.TIF, Blend Mask *.TIF, and INF files, I can inspect them all.


Interesting rugged area, even at the default FS2Kx 30 Meter terrain resolution; that must be quite challenging if there are winds aloft.

GaryGB

 

[Delta620]

Hmm, weird on the zoom level being 19 vs 20. I put the zip file in google drive as it was too large to fit on here.

Its quite an interesting helispot, and a very popular download in the community. Very fun to fly in and out of! I'm hoping to create some other sceneries soon, but currently just working on repaints.

69Bravo Files.zip

drive.google.com

 

[GaryGB]

I now have the (initial) set of files linked above, thanks.


Please also attach / link the multi-source INF file used for compiling the photo-real BGL; it may be a required part of troubleshooting.


A few initial findings as I await your INF file and inspect this further:

ADE shows a List of (flat / level) CVX Vector Terrain Polygons: Water Polys ...at assigned Altitudes

P3Dv4 shows the local terrain mesh surface to be sloped:

P3Dv4 shows NO local Hydro attribute of photo-real default water / NO intended underlying Water Class color @ ALL CVX HP Polygons

Tomorrow (Wednesday) I plan to continue inspecting / testing potential fixes to allow what IIUC is intended scenery display in P3Dv4.

GaryGB

 

[Delta620]

Yes, I moved my aircraft to each of the locations where the water needed to be placed and I used those altitudes for the water. Before, I had CVX polygons to flatten and level the terrain under the water but I removed them thinking that might've been causing the issue. I just havent reinstalled them.

Sorry, I missed the INF file, here it is.

 

[GaryGB]

I looked at image properties for the *.TIF Mask files, and questions are raised regarding their internal graphical file format.


FS2Kx SDK Resample (including ACES' ESP / Prepar3D SDK) has a specific requirement for 8-Bit gray scale TIF used as Masks.

If those settings are not used, one may- or may not- see an error message during an attempted compilation with SDK Resample.


FYI: Certain legacy graphics applications may by default write info into images that are not compatible with use by SDK Resample:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-tool-not-working.448011/#post-847770


I have summarized SDK requirements that must be considered when using legacy versions of PhotoShop, which IIUC, you used:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-tool-not-working.448011/post-847770


Please take a look at this info , and verify your PhotoShop TIF export settings; then re-test your updated source file(s) with your INF.


I shall await your reply here before delving too far further under the hood at 69B tomorrow.

GaryGB

 

[Delta620]

Looks like I had an ICC profile clicked at the very bottom while saving the tif format. That got rid of the 37724 warning but I still get the wrong data type 1 and 34665 error. But reading JRobinsons post seems like those two might be normal? Recompiled with the new tif images, reimported the image to ADE, compiled that. Circles show through in my sim, but still no water. My sim also has a much flatter area that yours, but likely due to the Orbx mesh system I am using.

 

[GaryGB]

OK, I'll look through this further today, and do some testing; IIRC, the FSX era OrbX mesh was max. LOD-12 (~) 10 Meters between elevation data points).


I'll also make a truly "flat" / "level" flatten while testing.


Additionally, I'll consider making a TIN surface for comparison, since custom PR LC texture types are assigned to be terrain mesh-clinging.


Last (but not least), I'll see what might be a reasonable extent of coverage for a higher resolution terrain mesh (<) 10Meters between elevation data points.


I'll post results incrementally as they are completed; I should be able to get started later today (Wednesday).

GaryGB

 

[Delta620]

I'm also wondering why water wont show when there is no photoreal bgl placed to block it.

 

[GaryGB]

I'm also wondering why water wont show when there is no photoreal bgl placed to block it.

It is true that the Hydro attribute as a translucent texture layer is most commonly seen with default or custom LC CVX texture creation / placement.

One can also see a type of Hydro attribute when we place a CVX Vector water Polygon ("Terrain Polygon"type in ADE) on the ground.


You can see this type used in various versions / stages of the W.I.P. for Ken's KBHM project ...here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/questions-about-qgis.460216/post-936005


BTW: I discovered that the CVX Vector terrain LC GUID used for your water Polygons is not offered (yet) in the GUID / Type pick-list of SBuilderX.

However, that GUID does appear in the Modified Terrain.Cfg of FSX when that option is used for SBuilderX during initial installation.

// Hydro Polygons - Default - Non-Perennial
[Texture.258]
Name=Hydro_Polygons_Default_Non_Perennial
Color=FF2938FF
guid={BF269D30-41F8-421D-903A-25D3DC00C36E}
ExcludeAutogen=No
RenderToTexture=No
RenderPriority=80000
Water=No


That GUID for "Hydro Polygons - Default - Non-Perennial" also does appear in the 'updated' Terrain.Cfg of P3Dv4 and in SDK docs for P3D.

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/sdk/world/terrain/vector_shape_properties_guids.html


So, although there are things yet to be tested, we may serendipitously find that a CVX Vector Hydro Polygon may show on top of default terrain.

But, IIRC, we must first Exclude, then Replace the default LC in the area intended for placement of that new test CVX Vector Hydro Polygon.


I suspect PR Masking 'may' be the culprit, as such CVX Vector Hydro Polygons are able to display if draped on slopes, as they are terrain mesh-clinging.


More to come later.

GaryGB