MSFS24 Decal material still broken?

[pinkjr]

Question, is the Decal Material setting still broken within the SDK/Blender tool? I keep getting decal flickering, even when increasing the material draw order. A small offset within the model fixes it, but it shouldn't be required.

Thanks,
DR

 

[jgarnold]

I just used a decal material without problems. Did you use UV mapping > project from view?

 

[GaryGB]

In its current form, this inquiry is rather non-specific; an answer would require more specific info.


Apparently, MSFS SDK now offers an option to adjust several parameters for "Draw Order" when working with Decals:

In addition, MSFS SDK requires several additional considerations, depending on the object and Material types involved.

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Asset_Creation/3DS_Max_Plugin/Materials.htm#draw-order

"Draw Order

This value modifies the sorting order, and the value can range from from -999 to 999. In the simulation, objects are sorted from back to front using the mesh center. By "mesh center" we mean the actual mesh bounding box center, not the pivot position itself (pivot position does not affect the draw order sort algorithm). As such, the Draw Order parameter can be used to offset the distance used to sort the rendering order, for cases where the meshes center doesn't provide the correct order. This can be used to avoid rendering artifacts such as flickering when multiple transparent or decal material types are on top of each other in the rendered output. This parameter is effective for Decal, Glass and Windshield materials. In the case of decals, the value strictly specifies the order in which decals are rendered, where a higher value will be drawn above and a lower value will be drawn below. In the case of Glass and Windshield materials, the value is added as an offset to the distance used to sort the objects for rendering."

IIUC, this equates to "Layers" in FS2Kx scenery content; but it is not clear this correlates with Z-sort "units" (ex: mm).


IIRC, FS8 / FS9 had 'VTP Layers', but FSX MDLs did not have "Material Z-Bias Functionality" later added to P3D by LM.

AFAIK, Arno's MCX G-Poly Wizard uses a Z-sort offset in "units" to emulate FSX MDL Material 'layer' draw order


It is interesting seeing the "wiggle room" MSFS now offers for Z-sort offsets and/or layering compared to FS2Kx via a

Google search using these query strings may explain these considerations:

MSFS SDK material draw order site:devsupport.flightsimulator.com

FSX VTP layer count total

Regarding the "flickering" issue cited above, despite Google A.I.'s efforts to "blow smoke where the Sun don't shine" when it cites my topical discussions at FSDEV, I was fascinated to see this statement regarding something I do not recall ever reading before:

(Google query string as a citation for Googles statement, inferred in a context of content I had purportedly discussed):

site: www.fsdeveloper.com GaryGB 3D Direct3D Z-sort depth offset

"The "Zero" Z-Bias Trap: When vertically layering distinct 3D models using actual Direct3D material sorting, you cannot leave a layer's Z-bias at 0. Leaving layers unassigned causes the Direct3D pipeline to experience floating-point precision errors, leading to severe texture flickering or objects clipping beneath the terrain".

I learn new things from Google regularly, despite scanning FSDEV forums nearly daily for over a quarter of a "Century of Flight".


What specific type of MSFS object is being referred to in the OP above ?

GaryGB

 

[pinkjr]

Thanks guys. I was just trying to add a store decal to a building. I created the model in SketchUp and post-edit in blender using the required techniques.....so I'm obviously doing something wrong because I still get flickering.....but easily solved with a .03 offset and Draw Order >1. Gonna try doing it all within Blender.

 

[rhumbaflappy]

The draw order only gives order over other decals, not over the base material. Usually an offset of 0.01 works, but you'll need to see. In Blender go to edit mode, select the faces for the decal, and while selected duplicte the faces and separate by selection. This gives a new separate mesh for the decal.

 

[pinkjr]

Thanks Dick. I am aware now, the decal mesh need to be "blended" with the base material, so only way to control this is using Blender or similar...using the method you just described.

 

[Misho]

Thanks Dick. I am aware now, the decal mesh need to be "blended" with the base material, so only way to control this is using Blender or similar...using the method you just described.

I tried decal material and gave up on it. It simply doesn't work as advertised (in 3DS MAX either). I use @rhumbaflappy method and I've been told all devs are using this approach.