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Delivering Freeware Sceneries with FSX?

Georg Aubele

Georg Aubele

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The announcements for FSX are rolling on. In the SAG-Forum there was the question, how difficult it would be to bring our freeware sceneries on the FSX-DVD.

Thinking about copyright and a (for sure) new format of the BGL-files, I don't see a great chance for this, what do yu think?
 
After reading the post at flightsim.com, it seems to me that MS has a long list of partners, who at this time remain nameless. It would be nice if some freeware scenery made on the production release, but we both know that would be next to impossible, I think the larger scenery producers have been working with MS to help produce the newer scenery.

I am very interested in what MS has done with their scenery platform, and the so called "bag full of new tools" that is supposed to be released with FSX.

Dave
 
I think 99.9% of AddOn-sceneries will have problems with the new FS. So I can't think of including a freeware-scenery in the FSX-package. I guess we'll even have to wait some months for the new sdks so we get a clue why our fs2004-sceneries don't work anymore... :o
 
I wouldn't see this happing very soon either. For a few reasons:

  1. Which freeware addons would you include and which not? You could easily fill loads of DVDs with addon sceneries.
  2. Most addon sceneries are probably to complex (and heavy). You have to remember that MS makes a product that should also run fine on a normal PC (the specs on the box). So if you add too much scenery, it will be less attractive to people with older PCs.
  3. Would you as scenery design like this way of distribution? MS is making money with your effort. This could be a whole new discussion :).
 
Hi all.

I haven't seen ANY indication that there will be problems with old addons. They clearly state they are interested in backward compatibility in the FAQ, and the few screen shots support that idea. They clearly use LWM, VTP, scenery objects, landclass, waterclass...

I wouldn't be surprised if our sceneries have 90%+ compatibility.

I suspect there may be problems with the old Dynamic Scenery, as it seems to be replaced with something new ( I only noted the flock of flying birds in the screenshots... and the presence of lots of ships).

Dick
 
I would suspect that a lot of backward compatibility exists. I would also suspect that new features like skin / mesh animation (from the video of the animals) will be possible ;)

I would also suspect that unlike previous releases, the SDK's will come with the game, not months later. I believe that Microsoft understand that this was something we all wanted.
 
This would of course be great news! :) :) :)

I really hoped they would finally implement vertex animations. :)
 
Georg Aubele said:
The announcements for FSX are rolling on. In the SAG-Forum there was the question, how difficult it would be to bring our freeware sceneries on the FSX-DVD.
Click to expand...

I don't think this will be necessary -- from the FSZ Q&A -
"Our basic fleet is merely the starting point because we are going to make it easier to download additional aircraft created by the many accomplished add-on developers in the community"

Although this applies to aircraft, I think what they are alluding to is 'Live', which is kind of like Xbox Live but for Windows. I imagine that this would be a fairly painless way to obtain addons, whether payware or not, in the same way that we already get addons for the Xbox.
 
I would hope the pre-release info about the new features and scenery design characteristics would not be limited only to selected partners. I don't necessarily desire exact details such as file formats and the like prior to release but I'd like to know some basics such as if the animation length is going to be extended, what the maximum autogen building and vegetation totals are going to end up, and if I should start using glass-like textures in my buildings to take advantage of what appears to be reflective surfaces. These are not trade secrets that have to be guarded. It would be a simple courtesy so, as I'm creating my latest batch of scenery, it will already be able to take advantage of new functionality once FSX is released.

I think, as a development community, we should take to the popular AVSIM forums and keep the pressure on for any tidbits of info we can get and readily share it between each other. It's really in Microsoft's best interest if the flightsim community knows that on the date of release, the scenery they downloaded a month before suddenly starts showing much more than they ever realized.

I already add in more autogen houses and vegetation than the current engine allows hoping that the new release will show them all. It'd be nice to know it's not in vain.

Art Martin
 
looks to me from the screenies they just beefed up some trees and added some ai geese and more reflective textures to the crome and rivets..sounds more like a huge scenery addon than a new fs..It definitly needs waterzone water textures,,Its more about Vista I think...But I am always wrong about things 99.9 % of the time..especially 1 year away :rotfl:
 
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I sure was a bit disappointed too. But as you say: It's still a long time to release.

I think some things can't be done before the SDKs are out. I think of the shading-channel for textures for example. How do you want to create this before you actually know how to do it?
 
Hi!

Off topic: if FSX is released for XBox 360 (which does not seem impossible), is there any chance that the construction of this gamingmachine will allow us to use freeware addon scenery on it?

/hans
 
bpahe said:
Hi!

Off topic: if FSX is released for XBox 360 (which does not seem impossible), is there any chance that the construction of this gamingmachine will allow us to use freeware addon scenery on it?

/hans
Click to expand...

Well, there's Xbox Live, which has always let you download both 'freeware' and 'payware' addons for various games. It is worth looking at Crimson Skies -- you could download both 'scenery' (by adding cities/missions) and aircraft.
I've always been intrigued by this -- it makes for a simple and fairly transparent way to distribute addons.
By the way, Microsoft are extending the concept of Live to encompass just about everything, so I would imagine one FS distribution system would work for both the PC and Xbox. For small areas, such as here in New Zealand, it seems a great way to work -- almost automatic access to users, rather than relying on them to go looking on the web, instant purchase (Live already has your credit card!) and automatic download/installation.
-Robin
 
Add-ons and FSX

I agree with Art that some of Microsoft's upcoming FSX parameters that they know will definitely apply in the shipped product should be disclosed early when we have about 3/4 of a year to make the most of FS9 while getting ready for the new baby. It is interesting that they even committed themselves to the approximate release date so far in the future since they have traditionally been so tight-lipped and non-committal in the past (perhaps in case they have feature implementation problems for a given production and shipping deadline, or if they are worried that the "competition" may be listening).

What competition you say? Well, I'm a very committed MS FS2004 user now, but I enjoyed Flight Unlimited II and III (mostly for the Lake Renegade Amphibian and photorealistic scenery) for years after getting disappointed with earlier releases of MSFS; in some ways, MS is only now surpassing FU3. But as glad as I am to get confirmation that FSX will be forthcoming with all the apparent enhancements and presumed retro-compatibilty, I think the timing of the early announcement of FSX with such an abundance of screenshots (unlike with prior MSFS version upcoming release announcements) was because of the X-Plane scenery breakthrough recently announced. See the pix here: http://www.x-plane.com/. Geez, no disrespect intended for all our hard-working FS scenery developers, but it looks to me like somebody finally got serious about graphically pre-tilting their photoreal imagery tiles to the proper angles that they were going to be draped at when placed over the underlying mesh, so that rock and cliff textures look as they should without stretching like an object in a Salvador Dali painting. Gawd, I am so frustrated by the stretched "psychedelic leopard" textures we see in so many FS sceneries!

Just to be sure the flame stays under the butts of the MSFS developers to get us improved and timely SDK's (honestly... you're our heroes!), I think we should march in the streets asking for some FSX SDK availability at least in the shipped product; or better yet, before launch as a courtesy for 3rd party developers to get sensational add-ons available by next Fall to really pump up the FSX launch excitement. Ever notice how certain blockbuster movies always have the excitment-building products related to the movie in place at the toystores and at the fastfood restaurants by the launch date? I believe it tends to synergistically boost both movie ticket sales and (licensed, coincidentally!) 3rd party product sales at the same time. (Not that we want any licensing involved of course; ...just a parallel example!)

I guess we'll see just how seriously concerned Microsoft is about the competition in the coming months. The word on the street is that Bill Gates and his buddies are starting to see the possibility of real competition emerging from the hexadecimal haze for more and more of its product lines, much of it "dangerously" free, such as non-Windows OS browser enviroments with value-added website services that may evolve into bootable alternate operating systems for PC's, console game devices, hand-held devices, and hybrid cell-phones. Google, and offshore PC's and motherboards bundled with an asian alternate OS might be ones to watch for this in the near future.

Anyway, let's hope for a great FSX product that we can enjoy even more than FS2004, and let the competition stimulate more product enhancement so that Flight Simming gets even better each release. Happy Flying!

GaryGB
 
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Hi Dick,

rhumbaflappy said:
I haven't seen ANY indication that there will be problems with old addons. They clearly state they are interested in backward compatibility in the FAQ, and the few screen shots support that idea. They clearly use LWM, VTP, scenery objects, landclass, waterclass...
Click to expand...

For the mesh part of the scenery I don't expect that much trouble indeed. But the airport part is no difficult. People have kept using techniques of Fs5, Fs98, Fs2000, Fs2002 and Fs2004 together here and we can not always expect that the backwards compatibility will be supported that long. So that is not something I would take for granted. But as long as you remain close to the latest SDK documents it should be fine (although there is always some last minute tweaking for a new version).
 
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