Distance

[Fern]

Hi,

I just created a large object with gmax, a mountain, Uluru, in Australia. It all works fine. However...

I have MDLCommander in my plugins, and even though it stops half way through the export for options, the "Distance" is determined at 10000 metres and greyed out, so I can't change it.

I then compile it with ObPlacer XML and, again, it all works fine. The mountain appears beautiful in FS. However...

...it disappears at more than 10000 metres, just like it is supposed to, but it is too big for that, and the effect is terrible.

ObPlacer XML doesn't give me the option of changing the distance either.

Is there a way to increase the distance to 20000 metres?

Thanks

Fern

 

[Thomas]

I think you can solve this, by using MDLTweaker, which you can find in the 'tools' section of this forum. There you can change the 'distance to refpoint' I think.

So first export your model from Gmax (with MDLCommander doesn't matter), then use MakeMDL to change the distance parameter and then use OBplacer XML to place your object in FS...

Thomas

 

[Fern]

Tweaker no help

Hi, Thomas and all

Tweaked with the MDL Tweaker, using "Distance to Ref Point" (33B), which appears elsewhere as "distance from aircraft to scenery", but it didn't make any difference.

Moving away from the object past 10km makes the whole mountain pop out of existence (spooky).

Now, MDL Tweaker it insisted on Max and Min values, and I entered 0 and 20000 decimal. Didn't try any other values.

Any other hints or clues?

Thanks!

Fern

 

[Fern]

Tried HEX

Hi, all

Tried HEX values in MDL Tweaker ( 0 and 4E20), but no change...

I am really trying hard to avoid having to create a library API with this thing and place it with FSSC...

Come on, fellow, there must be a way to make it visible up to 20000 metres...

Thanks

Fern

 

[arno]

Hi Fern,

No, this will not work. You can only reduce the distance with MDL Tweaker. You can not go beyond the limit FS adds to the MDL object.

Maybe with the old gamepack you can get a higher distance (but it is still limited). The best way to make hills is with mesh scenery. They have no distance restriction and blend much better with the terrain around it.

 

[Fern]

Blast

Hi, Arno

Not what I wanted to hear at all.

The thing is that Uluru DOES NOT blend with the surrounding terrain at all, not at all. It is a rock sticking out of the sand of the desert, different in colour, material, everything.

Just to finalize... I'll create an API using that roundabout method of creating a library object from my gmax object.

Does anyone know of anything easier? Uluru is way too complicated to create with EOD...

Thanks

F

 

[arno]

Using an old style API with your XML style library could indeed work. But there is still a limit in the range you can get (I think it is about 64 km in the APIs). But maybe that is enough for you.

 

[Fern]

gmax to api

Hi, Arno and all

OK, I found my two tutorials on how to go from gmax asm files to api using FS Regen.

I created the library asm, and compiled a library bgl, or so I think, using BGCL. I want to see whethe it works first, then you tell me whether you thing that BGLComp would work for this.

I also created the API, which I will use with FSSC.

Where do I put the library bgl? Shoud it be in any Scenery folder? (and, therefore, can be in the same folder where the rest the rest of my bgl files for this specific scenery are?) The tutorials are less than vague about this.

Thanks!

Fern

 

[Fern]

FS 2004 limitation?

Hi, All

Well...

First, I discovered that the mountain disappears at 25 km, not 10 as I said earlier, even when I don't do any distance setting. Still disconcerting, because mountains are not supposed to disappear and pop into existance.

Things I tried:

* Straight export from gmax-FS2004, no way to set distance: mountain disappears at 25 km.

* Create macro/library with FS Regen from gmax asm files and export with FSSC: mountain disappears

* Create mountain with gmax-FS2002, set distance to 40000 and 60000 metres: mountain disappears either way at 25 km.

* Tried the default mountain: it disappears beyond 25 km.

So, is this a built-in limitation of FS2004? I have a "sight distance" under Weather settings set to 160 km, but it doesn't seem to make any difference in seing objects.

Any clues?

Thanks

Fern

 

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Fern.

What I see is that the distance is near 25 miles ( about 40 km ) for the disappearance point. It does seem hard-coded.

When I set visibility to 10 miles, I can still see the object out to 20 miles... ( 32 km ). I'm using an earth surface distance calculator for this info to convert lat-long to distance.

http://www.wcrl.ars.usda.gov/cec/java/lat-long.htm

http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/LatLong.html


This makes me wonder if MS made a mistake with visibility... or perhaps doubled it, because we land-lovers can't believe how restricted visibility truly is in the real world!

You might be able to use LOD models with material transparency to fade the mountain, and soften the transition. But I think the distance limit remains.

Object scenery just wasn't considered for huge terrain features in this version of the sim.

Draping a photreal texure over mesh is about as good as you'll be able to go, if you want distance.

Dick

 

[Fern]

Photoreal textures

Hi, Dick, Arno, and all

Well...

The default Uluro Microsof placed there IS an object, not terrain elevation, and it does disappear. I verified the distance again and, in my two machines which are set the same way, the distance for disappearing is awfully close to 25 km, but that is a detail.

Yes, the "Land Lovers" are correct. I am a pilot, and visibility is not as good as it could be. However, a 320-metre high hill will show up at much farther away than 25 km. Being that as it may, the fact that it pops in and out of view is disconcerting, and not acceptable.

The Uluru has some cracks and roundness that I have a hard time making with terrain elevation, so I will save that for last, and perhaps you can help me placing the satellite photo texture over it, if it comes to that.


So, going back to objects, I had an idea and perhaps someone can help.

I created a terrain modification for the aera with the approximate size and profile of the Uluru. That one does not disappear, of course. My idea was to place my object on top of it, so it would just flicker in an out at the 25 km mark, but that would be acceptable.

Problem is... (of course) my object insists on sitting ON TOP of the elevated terrain I made, no matter what I enter in the ObPlacer XML box for altitude. I placed the altitude above sea level, entered the number for the surrounding desert, but it doesn't seem to allow me to do it, as if altitude for an object below ground level was not allowed.

Any ideas on that?

Thanks a million, fellows

Fern

 

[airmonkey]

I don't know if this will work, but try to make a ground-texture with the right colours where you want the Uluru mountain to apair. Place it in the right position and use a mesh tool to rise the mountain. Hopfully this will make a mountain in the correct coloursetting.

 

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Fern.

With the default Ayer's Rock in the sim, I get a visual distance of about 36.25 km from my guess of the center ( refpoint ) of the object.

-25.3508070827443, 131.046589559822

to

-25.6769191893189, 131.044651982529

http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/LatLong.html


Regardless, the distance is fixed in FS9, and is too short for your needs.

Dick

 

[Fern]

Terrain, then

Thanks, Paul, Dick, Arno, and all

So, it comes to messing with the terrain mesh, which I have never done, and don't know even where to start... Can someone give me a push in the right direction?

What "tool" do I get and that is easier to use?

(I find it interesting that even "Microsoft" placed Uluru there with an object)

Thanks!

F

 

[arno]

Hi Fern,

Problem is... (of course) my object insists on sitting ON TOP of the elevated terrain I made, no matter what I enter in the ObPlacer XML box for altitude. I placed the altitude above sea level, entered the number for the surrounding desert, but it doesn't seem to allow me to do it, as if altitude for an object below ground level was not allowed.

When you are using altitudeIsAgl = FALSE you should be able to place it at the correct altitude. I have never heard that that is not working.

 

[Fern]

No Kidding

Hi, Arno and all

But of course. Worked... almost.

The mountain now sits on the ground, right over of the terrain that I raised underneath. This raised terrain can be seen almost foreever, and my Uluru mountain flicks into view at about 25 (or 30) km, just like I hoped. I was almost hysterical. Came close to Uluru to see that... it had lost its shadow...

I tried a few times, and the unedited xxxxx.XML, with the mountain on the ground (0 metres AGL) (or sitting on the raised terrain) casts a nice shadow, just like Uluru should. However, with the edited xxxxx.XML, with AGL=FALSE, It sits on the altitude I tell it, just touching the ground, but has no shadow.

Arno, or someone, know how to put the shadow back?

I'm almost there... Thanks!!!

Fern


(In my defense, it was kind-of tricky to know that just entering the MSL option and altitude in metres wasn't enought, and that the xxxxx.XML file had to be edited by hand and the AltitudeIsAGL="TRUE" should be ="FALSE".)

 

[CrashGate3]

I think it lost its shadow because the origin is under the ground. Try moving the mountain model down in Gmax so that the origin is above the actual mountain. Then you can set it at that distance above the ground, making the origin above ground and hopefully getting your shadow back. (excuse the 1337 MSpaint skillz... )

 

[CrashGate3]

In fact, thinking about it, due to the way FS handles object shadows, this will cause the shadow to appear to come from the top of the hill. It would be best to keep the origin at ground level, but move it to the side of the hill. This will keep it above ground, and make shadow appear at the correct hight.

 

[Fern]

Shadow is gone, for good, apparently

Hi, CrashGate and crowd

It looks like changing the altitude of a gmax object from AGL to MSL makes it loose its shadow.

Your idea sounded good, so I tried, and I tried some more, too, along the same lines. The last one was to position the object (Uluru), created with gmax with the origin ouside the object, with the XML file edited to AltitudeIsAgl="FALSE" and positioned with ObPlacer XML with its altitude MSL right at ground level, on a normal, apparently flat portion of the desert. No shadow. Make AltitudeIsAgl="TRUE" for the same object and the shadow re-appears.

So, objects with that entry edited in their XML files and placed using MSL seem to loose their shadows.

For now, in my "final" Uluru (the one over the hump in the terrain), the shadow of the hump just shows enough for it not to be totally shadowless. The terrain hump shadow is somewhat "soft", but it is better than no shadow at all.

If anyone knows what to do to get the shadow back, I am still interested.

Thanks, all.

Fern

 

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Fern.

I can assure you, the missing shadow would have nothing to do with ASL or MSL. Place an onject at 0.00m, or 100.00m, with AltitudeIsAgl="FALSE", in the ocean, and the shadow will be there.

If you place it at -0.5m, the shadow is gone... as it is now beneath the ocean level.

The reason you should leave this as AltitudeIsAgl="TRUE", is because this simply sets the base altitude at ground level, rather than at an absolute height.

Your problem may well be the terrain isn't flat, which will affect shadows. On uneven ground, the shadow is still a flat plane, extending from the refpoint altitude. The shadow isn't actually ON the ground at all, because the sim expects a flat terrain around the object.


Dick