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FSX error overlay airport

robystar

robystar

Messages
5,214
Hi,

After all this time I have finally come up once more with a fatal error.
I made a heli overlay for OAKB and called it 1AKB.
As soon as an AI heli has landed and passed the hold short, contacting ground, FSX stops and displays the fatal error message.
The overlay is not complicated: one runway, a taxiway and apron links connecting to some parkingspots coded AH64. Coms are tower and ground, no more, and no nearby airports use the same com frequencies.
Fault finder finds no mistakes.
No double aiport entries found with the name 1AKB.
Map (in FSX) shows OAKB and 1AKB correctly.
The destination airport is also a heli overlay but of OATN (OAT1).
I have no problem at that airport.
Does somebody have an inkling of what could cause it?
Thanks,

Roby
 
Hi,

Probably found out what goes wrong:
I contact 1AKB tower and request permission to land.
ATC directs me to the 1AKB R29.
After landing on 1AKB runway 29:
ATC: turn next taxiway - exit runway when able
After leaving the runway:
ATC: Contact Ground on 121.00 (which is correct)
I confirm: going to 121.0
ATC screen: choose an option for Kabul Ground on 120.300:
1. [Tune Kabul Ground on 120.300]
If I do, then turn on progressive taxi, I am (obviously) directed to the OAKB parking instead of the 1AKB.
I do not have a clue how to solve this problem.
 
Hi,

The only way I found to avoid an "airport switch" and resultant crash was to move the overlay airport in relation to the base airport. Sometimes moving it further away is the only solution, but sometimes only moving it around a bit solves the problem. You can try moving the overlay's Airport Reference Point, but that may not have much effect.

Hope this helps,
 
Does any part of the overlay airport correspond to the original airpor? Runway, taxiways, parking, etc?

I also make it a point to put the overlay airport reference point outside the ground plygon of the original airport, even though all the overlay airport objects are within the original airport.

As Tom mentioned - overlays can get real tricky at times.
 
Hi Roby,

I have had no problem creating a helicopter overlay at EGBB on a diisused taxiway. It overlays the UK2000 airport.






Where did you place your helicopter runway? Is it on top of the main runway?

This is my Kabul, could you indicate where your overlay is?

 
Hi Foks

Roby -
A couple of general side tips,
for when testing AI behaviour, (airports for choppers, or otherwise).



What you hear/do in your user's aircraft,
has no nescessary relation
to what the AI's aircraft hears/does.



To test whats happening with the AI -

Position your user A/C on the airport,
approx 100m from any runway/taxiway,
where you can observe the AI's coming and goings.

Set up any views or cameras as required.

Turn on both your radios -
- tune one to the overlay's tower
- tune the other to overlay's ground
you'll then be able to hear all aspects of the conversations more easily.

Set up your AI Traffic Map,
and AI Traffic explorer.

Now set your sim's time,
to approx 15 min before your AI's expected approach,
(you can reduce this time later).

Save the flight, so you can easily repeat the test.

Now sit back and wait then watch/listen. :D



PS
If your heliport's big enough,
set up multiple AI flights
arriving, say 10 minutes apart.

That'll save you having to continually reload the situation.



I've never experienced issues with colocated airport ref point CTDs.

However
I've always made sure the parent airport, and overlay airport's,
respective runways & taxiways were laterally displaced.

YMMV



HTH
ATB
Paul
 
Hi all,

Notice that you all are awake and sharp again!:)
I spent the last couple of hours trying to move the overlay airport around, check whether none of the runways, hold shorts etc, coincided with the OAKB, deleted the ground frequency for 1AKB, deleted the OAKB airport and substituted it by the default one, but in vain.
The overlay is within the grass rectangle of the crosshair (short AI heli runway made visible).
Thanks for bothering,

Roby

PS Already tried everything you suggested, Paul.
 
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Hi Roby,

Try using MULTICOM for comms. The attached works ok for the MAIW Chinook and Apache, but due to the very short landing roll and smallish castor angle, they tend to wander a bit after landing.

 
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Hi George,

I already did that. No use.
Have a look at mine would you and see if you can detect anything wrong because I do not.
What I have tried so far:
change the parking codes;
deleted ground freq
deleted tower and used unicom
set ARP outside the grass background of OAKB
moved rwy further away from OAKB rwy
stripped 1AKB down to the minimum.
I will now try a 15m wide rwy and another AI heli.
At least, with what I did, FSX does not give me a fatal error anymore but the AI now stops at the hold short and dissapears (can find nothing wrong with my parking spots).

PS Seems Hotelfox has a similar problem?
 
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Hi Roby,

I can't see anything wrong with your file.

I have tried altering the runway length, runway centre-line length, pulling and pushing the nodes, moved the ARP to the same position as in mine that works, added H-S nodes on each parking link etc. etc.

The AI taxi out correctly but on landing they just sit at the H-S.
 
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Hi George,

I have spent the entire day (I am off duty I said to myself and it is raining anyway) trying to figure out what is wrong and have not come up with an answer yet.
(Well, sometimes fed up with the story I switched to trying out your static aircraft issues but, there also, I come up with the same result as you do except that they do show up , sort of , in MCX).
The mystery behind 1AKB is in fact that I have many more heli overlays with the same heli's (RNLAF textured ones from the time the Dutch were still in OATN's Kamp Holland but I now changed the flags and still have to change the Apache textures :)), and it is the first time ever that I have this problem.
The AI is not cleared from the runway because the next one coming in shortly afterwards goes around and is only landing when the first one has disappeared.
As the latter is a typical symptom of no or non suitable parking spots, I deleted all parking codes as well.
What I did notice, when I still had the codes in, was that in the traffic toolbox the parking types showed up as 182NØø and AH64Øø. I do not know if that is normal.
I increased the turning angle of the wheels as well, but no luck either.
Still have to try another AI craft but I do not think that will resolve the problem although Nick Black's AH64 is strange in more than one respect.

Roby
 
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Yes, I don't understand it. Did you try my version? It works for both the Apache and Chinook.

Regarding SAMM, I have received a new version which apparently converts the Apache and Tristar (I can see them in FSX), but MCX can't read them and they do not respond to the heading parameter in xml placement.
 
George,

Thanks a lot, much more than I can express here, but...........:confused:
It only deepens the mystery.
Your file works but in as far as it allows the AI to continue its taxiing to what?
I enclose a screenshot of ADE connected to FSX that shows where the AI stops and parks.
Now, you tell me what is wrong because I do not know it anymore.
The difference between your ADE and mine: runway shorter and more distant from the OAKB runway, less parking spots, nothing else that might matter, I think.
Why does your AI stop past the parking and on my OAKB (default) taxiway????

Roby

Regarding SAMM: I am not one offically testing it. I tested AIFPv2 and found no errors in what I did but it seems I did not test enough :o>
 
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That settles that question.
Now onwards to why yours works and mine does not!
Pfffffff to say the least.
 
Hi Folks

Roby -
Your screenie -

Does the CHPlus marker
correspond to a non-overlay parking spot ?

If so your AI has
wandered onto the main airport,
and is not on your overlay airport.

PS
Those hold-shorts are too far away from the runway.

Also IIRC
small AI a/c won't work at full hold-short radius.

Isn't there a relationship between
a/c's OA length, and working HSR ?



Aologies if following are already implemented.

IIRC
aircraft.cfg steer angle is the total traverse angle.
i.e.
a value of 20 == max 10 port, max 10 stbd



Ensure chinook only has 3 contact points, (2 fixed, 1 steer),
as FS can get in a tizz with 2 steerable.



HTH
ATB
Paul
 
Hi Paul,

The hold shorts are very close to the runway.

Don't forget this is a very small area.

This is the area covered by the overlay



This is the full airport



As you may see, the full airport parking is miles away from the overlay.

That shot is with Robys AFD file. My overlay is slighly different, but the runway is in the same place.

Mine works, Roby's doesn't.
 
Hi all, (well, the both of you)

First of all, thanks George and thanks Paul for taking interest.
Let me start by saying that I have never had this problem before in none of my overlay airports and that is why I posted this problem.
Let me continue by saying, Paul, that I find it hard to understand your abbreviations and that therefore I am not sure what exactly you mean, iydmmss (*), and I might miss some of the things you are goodheartedly trying to explain (my mothertongue is not English and I have another kind of humor, but with more contact with you I will surely be able to graduate in Oxford or cambridge:D).
I have not figured out yet what you mean by 'working HSR' or 'CHPlus marker' so I am not sure how to reply except to concur what George said who has not the faintest either at the moment.
I am not speaking of the Chinook, btw, but of the MAIW AH64 Apache AI.

Thanks a lot for taking the trouble of minding soneones else's business :).

Roby

PS Still have to try it with another AI heli
PS2 to be sure: (*) = if you do not mind my saying so:).
 
Hi Folks

George -
Cheers
Now understand the relative positions of airport and overlay.



My comments related to Roby's non-working versions.

Your own taxiway parallel to your runway
is clearly sufficiently distant to prevent rotor clash,
for any Hold-Short waiting aircraft, versus a landing aircraft.



However,
in Roby's original attached ADE file -

Roby's taxiway parallel to his runway
is insufficiently distant to prevent rotor clash,
for any Hold-Short waiting aircraft, versus a landing aircraft.

His Hold-Short nodes are far too close to the runway,
(less than 50 feet from rwy's centreline),
i.e.
insufficient distance between aircraft.

So if an AI is waiting to depart,
it will permit AI approaches,
but inhibit any AI landings,
and force the AI to go-around.



For Roby's newer version, (see his screenie) -

His runway and taxiways
no longer cause a rotor clash,
but his hold-shorts are positioned
differently from those in his previously attached ADE.

They Hold-Short's are now too remote from the runway,
(now being approx 325 feet away). :D



P.S.
If I recall correctly,
If the runway is too short,
and the AI is too high on approach,
it can also cause an overshoot go-around.



EDIT -
Sorry about that Roby.

HSR == Hold-Short radius, (outer ring must at minimum reach your runway)
CHPlus marker == Cross-Hairs Plus marker, (though guessing it might be ADE's user-aircraft position indicator).



HTH
ATB
Paul
 
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