Exporting A Model From Gmax Using The FS2004 Gamepack

[rhumbaflappy]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gmax+tutorial
It seems you need to learn modeling. The above link is for GMAX tutorials on youtube.

But I would suggest you learn Blender if you have to start from scratch. Blender exports to lots of different formats, and ModelConverterX can convert these to an FS2004 MDL format. Blender is quit popular. Sketchup would be another program many members use. GMAX is ancient, as is FS2004. Sorry, but that's just how it is. Folks here haven't used GMAX or FS2004 in many years. Complaining about other members attempts to help you isn't going to get you where you want to go.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

It might be best for you to link to a ZIP of your project for others to see, to get more- and more meaningful- successful results from your efforts with GMAX.

"A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words", but actual 3D model source files would prove far more helpful than even screenshots could.

IMHO, you also need to tell us what FS version you plan to output your finished 3D model into.

Additionally, IMHO, you should also tell us what FS 3D model features of display and/or function that you are attempting to implement via GMAX which you have not accomplished thus far in Sketchup via MCX.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gmax+tutorial
It seems you need to learn modeling. The above link is for GMAX tutorials on youtube.

But I would suggest you learn Blender if you have to start from scratch. Blender exports to lots of different formats, and ModelConverterX can convert these to an FS2004 MDL format. Blender is quit popular. Sketchup would be another program many members use. GMAX is ancient, as is FS2004. Sorry, but that's just how it is. Folks here haven't used GMAX or FS2004 in many years. Complaining about other members attempts to help you isn't going to get you where you want to go.

Hi Dick,

I've already seen most all of the videos and tutorials so I basically know how to model in Gmax. I didn't mean to sound as though I was complaining about others helping me. I didn't mean for it to sound that way. I appreciate all of you trying to help me out very much. I know some of you explained what to do, but didn't explain how to do it. I just thought since those of you who replied to my post and told me what to do still use Gamx and would know enough to explain how to do it. Please don't think that I was putting any of you down or that I don't appreciate your help. I wouldn't want to put anyone down so please forgive me if I came across that way. I was just frustrated because my questions were not answered. The problem is that even though I'm doing everything correctly in Gmax, the export just would not work, due to the limited count on the vertices. All I ask is that someone would explain, in detail, how to solve this in Gmax. Thanks Dick for posting so that I can appologize for any mis-understandings.

Ken.

 

[tgibson]

When you select half of the model and then choose export selected, only the selected half of the model will be converted to an MDL file. Then when you invert the selection and choose export selected again, the other half of the model will be exported to an MDL file. Thus you end up splitting the model into two MDL files, without having to split the GMAX file.

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:

It might be best for you to link to a ZIP of your project for others to see, to get more- and more meaningful- successful results from your efforts with GMAX.

Hi Gary,

I was thinking that I posted some images of my work but I see that I'm confusing this post with the other post "Error Message When Exporting a BGL In Gmax." You are so correct that a picture is worth a thousand words. That's why I like tutorials that include images and not just words. I'll try to upload the source file for others to use. I should have thought of that. I still have questions about my previous post "Error Message When Exporting a BGL In Gmax."

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Since I am familiar with your history at FSDEV, and you have worked hard over the last few years to develop your current considerable skill and experience in working with 3D modeling through use of Sketchup, I am curious:

Do you have a version of this particular project already made in Sketchup ?


I see your recent threads / posts mention:

* A (G-Poly ?) object at KDFW (Dallas / Fort Worth TX - USA)

...and:

* A RWY 28 / 10 at 2B2 (Plum Island, Newburyport MA- USA)


Which 3D modeling project is your present focus for this thread ?

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...-gmax-using-the-fs2004-gamepack.460090/page-2


Which 3D modeling project is your focus for the other ( 2 - ? ) threads ?

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/error-message-when-exporting-a-bgl-in-gmax.460075/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/about-gmax-for-fs2002.460061/


GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

When you select half of the model and then choose export selected, only the selected half of the model will be converted to an MDL file. Then when you invert the selection and choose export selected again, the other half of the model will be exported to an MDL file. Thus you end up splitting the model into two MDL files, without having to split the GMAX file.

Thanks Tom,

Now I think I got it. I've tried to export select about half of the model but it still would not export. I tried 1/4th the model and it still would not export. So I selected a small portion of the model and now it exported. The problem now is that the MakeMDL would not pop up and allow me to enter the coordinates, heading, and the selections in Options as it did with the FS2002 gamepack. But it did export that small portion of the model. I was only able to make my selection in Options by double clicking MakeMDL.exe. Then I put in the location for the input and the output files. It would not work. I just learned one thing here about the MakeMDL for the FS2004 gamepack. The input box must be an X file format and it's converted to an mdl file. I don't know why the tutorial never mentioned this. But every time I open the MakeMDL, the type box would always be selected for an X file. I converted the mdl to an X file using MCX and now the MakeMDL exported. If I use the Export button in Gmax and use a small poly count, it exports to an mdl file. But the MakeMDL does not remain open, or pop up so that I can make my selections in the Options.

Ken.

Since I am familiar with your history at FSDEV, and you have worked hard to develop your current considerable skill and experience in working with 3D modeling through use of Sketchup, I am curious:

Do you have a version of this particular project already made in Sketchup ?

No. I haven't used Sketchup in some time. Don't get me wrong. I still like using Sketchup on occasions, but I just like working in Gmax, now that I'm a lot more familiar with it. Did you want me to create this project in Sketchup?

I see your recent threads / posts mention:

* A (G-Poly ?) object at KDFW (Dallas / Fort Worth TX - USA)

...and:

* A RWY 28 / 10 at 2B2 (Plum Island, Newburyport MA- USA)

Yes. That's when I was reading and following Bill Womack's tutorial 'Creating High-Detail FS Ground Polygons.' He explains how to create layers and exporting them using asm. I remember you talking about asm many times but never understood what that was and how to use until now. I know it's a few years old but I've learned a lot from it. There are some things I don't understand but I'll get into that later.

Which 3D modeling project is your present focus for this thread ?

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you clarify? I hope I've answered your questions.

Ken.

 

[kmanning]

Hi Gary,

I see I didn't answered some of your questions here.

IMHO, you also need to tell us what FS version you plan to output your finished 3D model into.

Well, it depended on the tutorial I was following. But for the most part, I'm using FSX. I can always convert the files to P3D if I need to.

Additionally, IMHO, you should also tell us what FS 3D model features of display and/or function that you are attempting to implement via GMAX which you have not accomplished thus far in Sketchup via MCX.

GaryGB

I'm not sure what you mean by FS 3D model features. When I posted, I've mentioned what FS gamepack I was using and what sim I was trying to export them to. So, for the Tutorial 'Creating High-Detail FS Ground Polygons,' I used the FS2002 gamepack and exported the files to FSX. I hope this helps.

Ken.

 

[tgibson]

Correct. Without using other utility programs, the FS 2004 make MDL options choice is not available. As far as I know, those utility programs are no longer available.

And when you create an FS 2004 MDL file using GMAX and make MDL, I can’t imagine a reason why you would need the X file. You simply use the MDL file in model converter X to create the ground polygon. That’s what you’ve been trying to do right? I assume you can place the ground polygon from within model converter X after that.

And there’s no reason to specify a location when creating the MDL file with make MDL, even if you’re not creating a ground polygon. When you create an MDL file with GMAX and make MDL, it will also output an XML file where you can specify a latitude and a longitude for the position. You then use BGL comp to compile a BGL file from the XML and MDL files. Or instead of using the XML file, I believe model converter X will allow you to place the object where you want it to be.

 

[GaryGB]

Indeed, as Tom has clarified immediately above, this process may best be conducted via MCX.

[EDITED]

Also, if you do not yet realize it, the goal is to make a SCASM / ASM code type of G-Poly BGL, as FSX SDK compliant MDLs have issues with display that result in flickering when viewed at nearly all angles, and a "blue void" color seen in top-down view rather than the mapped texture image.

These anomalies are reportedly very difficult to minimize (although IIRC, Umberto Colapicchioni of FSDT / Cloud-9 and a few others developed a way to minimize such FSX MDL G-Poly anomalies more than other FS developers have thus far).

IIRC, Arno has previously asserted that FSX MDL G-Poly run time display anomalies are inherently due to removal of 'true' Z-Bias-related options in the FSX MDL by ACES, and IIRC, Arno attempts to emulate VTP layering / Z-Bias type adjustments via special coding in MCX G-Poly Wizard that implements micro-changes in physical placement distance interval between layers of mapped textures, but that method is still not able to completely emulate the controls otherwise enabled via use of non-FSX 3D model G-Poly controls (ex: 'true' VTP inter-layer incrementing) attainable by having used either SCASM / ASM or latter versions of P3D MDLs with Z-Bias "functionality" features restored to MDLs by Lockheed-Martin in latter versions of P3D.

IIRC, Bill Womack used that SCASM / ASM code type of G-Poly format purposely in both package releases of 2B2 Plum Island RWY; so a FSX MDL will not be the target output format.

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB

 

[Lagaffe]

Yes it's theses tutoriels of Bill Womack that I have used for CYMX-Mirabel which exist for FSX and P3D:

I don't remenber exactly how I made theses groud poly (it' was in 2017) but I don't used FS2002 process.

 

[Hiroshi Igami]

If need MDL Commander

X file saving with MDLCommander - FSDeveloper Wiki

www.fsdeveloper.com

 

[kmanning]

Correct. Without using other utility programs, the FS 2004 make MDL options choice is not available. As far as I know, those utility programs are no longer available.

I wasn't for sure what you meant by "other utility programs," but I'm thinking you mean programs like MCX, right?

And when you create an FS 2004 MDL file using GMAX and make MDL, I can’t imagine a reason why you would need the X file.

I didn't see the reason for using the .X file too. Since I was having issues exporting my mdl object using Gamx FS2004 gamepack, I figured there has to be a reason for this. I forget who posted it but someone stated that anything past Windows 7 would have issues using the MakeMDL program. Regarding the .X files, and the problem I was having exporting my mdl object, I've made some tests. We know I cannot export my object. That's number 1. So, I tried creating my own object, a box, in Gamx and applied a texture to see if that would work. Guess what, it worked. I was able to export this box but I could not export the ground polygon object. Is this because of the limitations of the vertex count that was discussed? The reason I brought up the .X file thing is because when I opened the MakeMDL program, I've noticed that the file type was always .X type file by default. When you open MakdeMDL, on the Main tab, there are boxes for the input and the output files. At first, I put in the input box as .mdl. It would not export. So, I converted the 3DS file to an .X file in MCX. I input the .X file where it says Input. I was then able to make my selections in Options and select Scenery for FS9 in the Model Type box becaues it was set to Aircraft. I clicked the Start button and it exported an mdl file. I don't know why but it works just fine, only if the input is an .X type.

You simply use the MDL file in model converter X to create the ground polygon. That’s what you’ve been trying to do right?

I'm a little confused because I wasn't able to export the object in Gmax. If I use the MakeMDL with an .X file type, I can export as an .mdl. But the problem with doing it that way is that I'm not exporting the changes I've made in Gmax I'm exporting the same thing I did when importing into Gmax. By the way, Gmax only allows me to import a 3DS file type.


Ken.

 

[kmanning]

Yes it's theses tutoriels of Bill Womack that I have used for CYMX-Mirabel which exist for FSX and P3D:

I don't remenber exactly how I made theses groud poly (it' was in 2017) but I don't used FS2002 process.

Yes, these are great videos and I've watched them a few times in the past. The last time I've made scenery for my airport for MSFS2020, Blender 3.1 is what I've used. I'm not sure if the lastest version have the ability to make scenery for flight simulator. By the way, what processes do you use?

Ken.

 

[tgibson]

The other utility programs I’ve used with GMAX are MDL commander and middleman. They are typically only used when you create aircraft models with VCs. With the FS 2004 make MDL program you don’t use it by itself, it is called by GMAX when you select Export or Export Selected. You choose aircraft MDL or scenery MDL in the file types drop-down box. The X file is created automatically first, then make MDL is called to convert it to an MDL file.

 

[tgibson]

Export the model​

• Select File > Export.
• Select a directory where you want to keep the project files of your house.
• Type teapot as file name, for instance.
• Select Flightsim Scenery Object (*.MDL) as type.
• Click on Save.

The result is:

• a mdl file which contains the model itself (according to my example teapot.mdl).
• a xml file which contains a reference to the model including an example location in the world (according to my example teapot.xml).

From: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php/Gmax_installation_guide_for_FS2004

 

[kmanning]

Export the model​

• Select File > Export.
• Select a directory where you want to keep the project files of your house.
• Type teapot as file name, for instance.
• Select Flightsim Scenery Object (*.MDL) as type.
• Click on Save.

The result is:

• a mdl file which contains the model itself (according to my example teapot.mdl).
• a xml file which contains a reference to the model including an example location in the world (according to my example teapot.xml).

Yes, that's was my result when I created the box and exported it. It created an xml and a mdl file. It's just strange why It won't export my complex ground polygon. This MDL Commander you've been talking about, is that a plugin for Gmax and do I need that for my ground polygon scenery to export?

Ken.

 

[Lagaffe]

Rather than going in opposite directions and giving each "our solution", I would first try to understand the problem of Ken :
1 - is it an export issue with Gmax ?
2 - is it a desire to apply the tutorial based on FS2002 for an educational purpose ?
3 - is it just to create a ground poly for FSX or P3D ?

I think (may be) from all that has been said that his problem is the n°3 and that in doing so, he tried with method 2 and obtained the result of the n°1

Yesterday I did other research and I found a scene that I had done in 2016 with ground poly and also some grass in 3D. It was about LAON-LFAF.
For this one, I kept all the files that I used to create these elements (190 MB). (I have tried 3DS for one ground poly for P3D)

If I make a focus on the "ground poly" folder, I found this

Everything was done with Gmax, the gamePack FS2004 and MCX. I have found some Notes.txt that I write during this project. For each ground poly, I drew on the ground the desired surface.
An it is here that my probleme in 2016 joins yours: for the 3D ground polys, I had to export the BGL with the GamePack FS9 because with that of FSX and the options we have to check in MCX certain areas or poly disappear.

My method was to split the scene into several elements that did not pose any issues during export with the GamePack FS2004 to obtain a scenery object-type MDL
This MDL after that was loaded in MCX (Model Coverter X from Arno) and i have selected Ground Wizard (if I remenber)

To automate the process, I wrote files *.mgp but honestly I don’t remember how I loaded them in MCX to retrieve the parameters that are written in them, because they are only text files.
Here the content of _apron_fsx.mgp:

W:\Mes Projets FS\Gmax\_Airports\LFAF - Laon-Chambry\ground_poly\LFAF_Aprons_GP_FSX.bgl
49.59035706
3.62766087
0
78.035
False
False
False
False
True
8
laon_asphalt;28;30000
laon_borders;28;30000
laon_concret;28;30000
laon_dirty1;36;30000
laon_dirty2;40;30000
laon_gravels;28;30000
laon_marks;32;30000
laon_sewers;32;30000
True;80;171
True;172;263
True;264;354
True;355;79
False;1;1
8
laon_asphalt;False;False
laon_borders;False;False
laon_concret;False;False
laon_dirty1;False;False
laon_dirty2;False;False
laon_gravels;False;False
laon_marks;False;False
laon_sewers;False;False
False
False
False
W:\Mes Projets FS\Gmax\_Airports\LFAF - Laon-Chambry\ground_poly
0
False
500

[EDIT]
After a few tries I found the process again:
1 - we load the MDL generated by the GamePack of FS2004 into MCX,
2 - we launch the Ground Wizard
3 - in the Ground Wizard window, we go to the very bottom right and click on the icon on the very right which then allows us to load the file *.mgp
4 - we ultimately obtain the gound poly as it must be exported with all the parameters provided

With this you have all that I know on the subject

 

[kmanning]

Everything was done with Gmax, the gamePack FS2004 and MCX. I have found some Notes.txt that I write during this project. For each ground poly, I drew on the ground the desired surface.
An it is here that my probleme in 2016 joins yours: for the 3D ground polys, I had to export the BGL with the GamePack FS9 because with that of FSX and the options we have to check in MCX certain areas or poly disappear.

My method was to split the scene into several elements that did not pose any issues during export with the GamePack FS2004 to obtain a scenery object-type MDL
This MDL after that was loaded in MCX (Model Coverter X from Arno) and i have selected Ground Wizard (if I remenber)

View attachment 97101

I'm not sure if this is your case but did you check the Material Editor in MCX to be sure all properties matched the original model? I've had instances when after I've exported a model and import it into MCX, much of the ground polys were missing, or disappeared as you said, because the Properties did not matched the original model. I see you have several layers.

Ken.

 

[Lagaffe]

So if I understand: THIS was effectively your problem ?

If I remenber well (I make this scenery 9 years ago yet) all the ground poly whicht have been designed under Gmax will appears OK under FSX and with the right texture.
I never exceed more than 8 levels of ground poly. If you need more, the better solution is to create separate BGL file.