• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

FS2004 FAJS navaid heading issue.

S

Sotiris

Messages
141
Country
greece
Hi,
While approaching to rwy 03L, I realised that Localiser bearing on my aircraft RMI was ~16° to the left while the same instrument VOR reading was correct. The VOR is aligned with rwy 03L.
With ADE9 I checked this airport file to find out what's happening there. I opened airport properties to check the Mag variation value for the airport. ADE9 unlike AFCAD 2.21 quotes that value as positive (East) while Jeppesen charts and AFCAD 2.21 correctly refer to as negative (West).
I changed this value to (-) in ADE9, but still both runways' Localisers show this error. It is known that ADE9 shows runway & ILS headings in True North.
Note that the same happens with stock airport.
So my question is how to make ILS read correctly on RMI ?
 
Sounds more like a gauge problem than a navaid problem.

What were the winds like on approach?

How close to the VOR were you?

If this is a navaid problem you should be able to repeat it.

If so, can you post a screenshot of the gauges showing the error?

cheers,
Lane
 
[Sounds more like a gauge problem than a navaid problem.]

I don't think so, as it happens with both an addon and default aircraft.

[What were the winds like on approach?]

What has this to do with an RMI reading ?

[How close to the VOR were you?]

The problem is with ILS not the VOR, which reads correct.
Anyway, at base turn to final.

[If this is a navaid problem you should be able to repeat it.]

Yes, of course I can duplicate the error, even on ground (rwy threshold).
 

Attachments

Sotiris said:
[What were the winds like on approach?]

What has this to do with an RMI reading ?
Click to expand...
The RMI points to station in relationship to the plane's nose.

If you are tracking the localizer with the needle centered and have adjusted your heading to account for a crosswind, the RMI needle will not be pointed straight up.

Sotiris said:
[How close to the VOR were you?]

The problem is with ILS not the VOR, which reads correct.
Anyway, at base turn to final.
Click to expand...
Sorry. I must have misread your first post. Rereading it I am not sure why you even mentioned the VOR. I think that threw me off.

I tested FAJS and see the same thing at the default airport that you see.

The odd thing is that if you track the RMI needle it will take you on a curving route that end up at the localizer anntenea.

There is something weird going on in South Africa, something above my pay grade.

The only idea that I can come up with is to delete the ILS and add it back in, except you can't delete an ILS.

You can orphan an ILS, I don't know what happens if you orphan an ILS then add an identical one back in. That is a question for Jon or Jim Vile.

Have you seen this at any other airports?

cheers,
Lane
 
[If you are tracking the localizer with the needle centered and have adjusted your heading to account for a crosswind, the RMI needle will not be pointed straight up.]

No, this is not the case this time, as wind was close to calm.

[Rereading it I am not sure why you even mentioned the VOR.]

I mentioned it so as to show that VOR reading was correct despite the wrong ILS reading.

[I tested FAJS and see the same thing at the default airport that you see.]

So you confirm you see that error too ?

The odd thing IMHO is that FS9 follows the True North and not the Magnetic in this airport.

[The only idea that I can come up with is to delete the ILS and add it back in]

I 'll give it a try, it may work.

[Have you seen this at any other airports?]

Nope.


Thanks for your reply Lane.
 
Sotiris said:
Hi,
While approaching to rwy 03L, I realised that Localiser bearing on my aircraft RMI was ~16° to the left while the same instrument VOR reading was correct. The VOR is aligned with rwy 03L.

So my question is how to make ILS read correctly on RMI
Click to expand...

The RMI gauges in FS9 are reading True North value of the runway which was mis-coded. If you go to KSFO ILS RWY 28 you will see the RMI reads 300 degrees True instead of the mag 282 heading. However FSX fixed this problem and coded the RMI to read the Mag heading so it agrees with the world localizer headings.

With ADE9 I checked this airport file to find out what's happening there. I opened airport properties to check the Mag variation value for the airport. ADE9 unlike AFCAD 2.21 quotes that value as positive (East) while Jeppesen charts and AFCAD 2.21 correctly refer to as negative (West).
I changed this value to (-) in ADE9, but still both runways' Localisers show this error.
Click to expand...

Changing the Mag Variation in the Airport Property Window of ADE9 and ADEX does nothing since it was not coded in the FSdata bgl's.

However the Mag Variation that is displayed in the ADE9 Airport property window is listed correctly. In aviation we go from true north on a chart to magnetic north on the compass. That means we always start with a true bearing and then calculate the magnetic heading. Westerly variations are positive meaning we add to. Easterly variations are negative meaning we subtract from.

It is known that ADE9 shows runway & ILS headings in True North.
Click to expand...

All runway base ends are True North

The FAJS Runway 3L has a True heading of 15.59 degrees (look at the RMI)

The Mag variation as per Jeppesen charts in year 2000 and in FS9 is westerly 16.90

True Runway heading 15.59 + westerly 16.90 = 32.49 magnetic runway heading. The airplane shows Mag heading of 32 degrees when sitting on the 3L runway using Shift+Z data.

West is always positive (add) and East is always negative (subtract) in aviation. AFCAD listed it as per magdec charts which work backwards compared to how the data is used in real life avaition.
 
Last edited:
Great stuff Jim, as always.

jvile said:
The RMI gauges in FS9 are reading True North value of the runway which was mis-coded.
Click to expand...

I take it that this is something "under the hood" of FS9 and not fixable with gauge coding?

I looked at the default Baron RMI for FS9 and FSX and, for all intents and purposes, they are identical.

cheers,
Lane
 
Lane Street said:
I looked at the default Baron RMI for FS9 and FSX and, for all intents and purposes, they are identical.
Click to expand...


Lane

FSX has fixed the problem. I tested both the default Baron and the B737 at SFO, JFK, FAJS which all have large variations and the RMI points to the ILS runway mag value.

I never looked to see if the problem is in the FS9 Boeing RMI.gau

In FSX the XML for the RMI does not show anything for the Localizer, just the VOR, NDB and mouse helper. I suspect the RMI is in the Gauge .dll files for each type plane.


Lane

I edited my post to reflect that FSX fix the problem.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top