• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

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Fighting piracy

The most important thing to keep in mind about having you software pirated, (mine is anyway) is this: almost none of those who download it for free, would ever pay to buy it. All those who buy software will also buy urs regardless of whether they can get it illegally free. There usually is very few buyers who might be tempted to get it illegally but this % remains very low. This is also why you get sales even long after your software us cracked/ripped and published at piratebay. So essentially you get free publicity at the expense of a little less buyers, give or take 10-15% of you total customers that is.
 
Jon,

If you're going to utilize an online store, there is the system that FS Dreamteam uses that you could explore. But it cuts into profit margins. Otherwise, for the type of work that you're doing there's nothing you can do to prohibit piracy.

If you were going to self-sell, there are ways to combat piracy. But your sales opportunities are greatly diminished by not being in one or more of the online stores.

While it galls me to say this, there isn't much you can do about the pirates. Heck, some forums know about a prominent pirate being a member and do nothing about it. But Avsim banned his rear-end.

Worry about those who do pay and give them reason to want to come back.
 
NoNewMessages said:
Jon,

If you're going to utilize an online store, there is the system that FS Dreamteam uses that you could explore. But it cuts into profit margins. Otherwise, for the type of work that you're doing there's nothing you can do to prohibit piracy.

If you were going to self-sell, there are ways to combat piracy. But your sales opportunities are greatly diminished by not being in one or more of the online stores.

While it galls me to say this, there isn't much you can do about the pirates. Heck, some forums know about a prominent pirate being a member and do nothing about it. But Avsim banned his rear-end.

Worry about those who do pay and give them reason to want to come back.
Click to expand...

Why would the FSDreamteam system cut into profit margins?

And I guess you all are right... those who would pirate the software wouldn't buy it anyway... best to just focus on my good customers :D
 
jonmkj said:
I actually called him one time... used my amazing mickey mouse impersonation to attempt to convince him that he had won a free trip to disney world.
Click to expand...

You've called me too with that Mickey Mouse impersonation...lol. :D

I really wish that these "pirates" would realize how much effort and work goes into these projects that they take and distribute all over the place.

Why can't the "internet cops" go to a site like "the pirate bay" and see what they are doing is wrong and un-ethical and shut down the site?
 
jonmkj said:
Why would the FSDreamteam system cut into profit margins?

And I guess you all are right... those who would pirate the software wouldn't buy it anyway... best to just focus on my good customers :D
Click to expand...

Based upon the little that I know having looked at the system briefly, the FSDT method could be used with online stores or self-sell. But the online stores still want their percentage and the FSDT system comes with a price attached to it.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. That's why I advise to just worry about what you can control.

And disclaimer! I refer to it as the FSDT method, but I believe it's handled through other channels.
 
I vastly prefer the Flight1 system for payware projects. The "fee" for the lowest tier of service is only a very modest 12% of the retail.

For that, you get to use the Flight1 "secure wrapper," the Flight1 sales portal where the customer transacts the purchase, Flight1 generates the "key" for the customer, but you host the download of your wrapped product yourself.

Flight1 handles all of the transactions, and sends you a payment once each month for the previous month's sales less any returns.

Flight1 does require you to agree to their iron-clad, 30 day refund policy. They "eat" any transaction fees for returns however, so you would only "lose" your 88% of the refund.

The refund policy though is a terrific sales tool, as it allows any customer the opportunity to try your product risk free for 30 days.

Eaglesoft DG has used Flight1 since its inception nearly ten years ago. Remarkably few refunds have ever been requested.
 
“…almost none of those who download it for free, would ever pay to buy it...”
“…those who would pirate the software wouldn't buy it anyway...”

It's common sentiment...
Sadly, without flawless DRM we’ll never know how many steal that would otherwise buy.
So no one’s going to get convinced one way or the other :)
Regardless, I think we should be very troubled by the sentiment, it sort of validates the thief's rational.

“Would I buy this? – No? – Then no harm to steal it.”

It’s an insidious deceit…best left to actual pirates :)
IMO..:)
 
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Dmaher... not to get off topic....... but I just clicked your banner link, and nearly had a stroke.


Finally.... finally a Vans RV for Flight sim. In the words of a famous fictional airline pilot: "Giggity giggity giggity giggity!" :D
 
Thanks Jon! I’m glad to hear you’re an RV fan :)
I’ll make a post in the show room, it’s overdue...giggity
Danny
 
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It is sad about the amount of piracy going on. Its gotten to a really high degree. Alot of people are even 'file sharing' to their local friends, like virtual airlines and online flight clubs. I had one guy wanting me to give him some of my planes in exchange for his that he was distributing. I couldnt believe it...

You will always have thieves. They are everywhere. They walk into Walmart with the intent of stealing some CD's, DVD's. They go online and try to get free music, games, movies.

Did you hear that days before Halo came out, it was already on PB? MS wasnt too happy about that.

I remember one of my beta testers had uploaded my own Operation Valkyrie to PB. That was hilarious. People had it before I released it... arrgh.


One day, their judgement will be upon them and they will have to account for what they did.
 
And it only takes one crack to supply all the users on Pirate Bay.
If a secure wrapper isn’t 100% safe you have to wonder, how’s the expense justified?
Basic transaction fees on a purchase are maybe 2% (at Digital River)

Probably we’re looking at the problem wrong. Thinking the issue is the lock. I don’t know...
FS publishers are paid for piracy protection…so I’m sure they’ve got ideas they're working on.

This is sort of random...but I think about it.
I grew up in a really small town…no one locked their doors. Car keys left on the floor mat.
Everyone had a nose in everyone else’s affairs.
I knew all the cops by name…And they knew my dad’s car...And there was NO crime. :D

I didn’t know there was a FSDreamteam system.
How does it work? Dare I ask; has it been cracked?

BTW, there’s some chance Flight may address this somehow…if they open their market to 3PD’s.
.
 
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lionheart said:
You will always have thieves. They are everywhere. They walk into Walmart with the intent of stealing some CD's, DVD's. They go online and try to get free music, games, movies.
Click to expand...

There's a difference between shoplifting (or more generally theft) and copyright infringement, says the US Supreme Court (Dowling v. United States, 1985).
 
“…almost none of those who download it for free, would ever pay to buy it...”
“…those who would pirate the software wouldn't buy it anyway...”
Click to expand...

One only has to watch sales plummet the moment a torrent is available to make the connection.

Sadly, Pirates don't understand or care that if everyone thought the way they do there would be nothing to pirate.

This is an inevitable consequence of the "me" generation.
 
When I released my product back in 2007 as a new FS-developer it appeared on the PB within days accompanied with a serial.

It seems to me someone is just buying every new simmarket release regardless of what it is and putting it on the pb. The moron even is using the registration code of the El Al Boeing that crashed on Amsterdam as a user name.

I'm just happy with every customer who does pay for my product.
 
I infact released my first product through Justflight today, I'll be amazed if it finds its way on to torrent sites becuase of the size of the project but never the less. I always feel that its the customer that suffers if a product is pirated, that way, developers up the cost of future products (perhaps) or ever stop developing all togeather.

If someone is willing to pay for my work, in this day and age then that makes me satisfied enough to keep developing.
 
So why wouldn't this work? Put a unique identifier in each package sold, somewhere where no one would think to look for it and don't tell anyone, say in a gauge file or the .mdl file. Then watch TPB to see if it get's pirated, and when you find it check the identifier to see who bought it. You wouldn't have stopped the theft, but you would know who the buttmunch is and have his Paypal ID or even better, credit card number... You could share lists of who pirated the material and not sell to them again.
 
kdryan said:
So why wouldn't this work? Put a unique identifier in each package sold, somewhere where no one would think to look for it and don't tell anyone, say in a gauge file or the .mdl file. Then watch TPB to see if it get's pirated, and when you find it check the identifier to see who bought it. You wouldn't have stopped the theft, but you would know who the buttmunch is and have his Paypal ID or even better, credit card number... You could share lists of who pirated the material and not sell to them again.
Click to expand...

Well if serial numbers are being shared then generally it would be possible to identify who that serial number was sold to in the first place. To put something in each sold product - a finger print would be more difficult I think. We certainly know how to finger print a bgl file if we want to but that was looked at to identify the author of the item rather than the person it was delivered to.
 
The only person I know of who managed to combat "piracy" successfully did so by throughly "customizing" a build of his product for each customer, which essentially put the customer's name on the product.

This meant of course that the customer had to wait after his/her purchase for delivery of the customized model after making the purchase and sending the proof-of-purchase via email.

It seems to me however that this technique will succeed only if (1) the vendor already has a "sterling reputation" established, and (2) the volume of sales is limited to at most one or two per day... :twocents:
 
n4gix said:
It seems to me however that this technique will succeed only if (1) the vendor already has a "sterling reputation" established, and (2) the volume of sales is limited to at most one or two per day... :twocents:
Click to expand...

Got to agree with Bill. We also have to consider how we patch or update products that have a unique customer fingerprint burned in. For applications like ADE I can see that being a problem.

I tend back towards serial numbers and releasing product that will only work where a serial number is entered. Those products that are delivered as a full version without protection once bought are clearly at risk.

I suppose that someone can crack the code by reverse engineering and remove the code that looks for the serial number or key file before re-compiling but that is a big ask for small products. The registration system I have (commercial) gives me the option of just having a serial number alone or requiring the user to log onto a registration server. It is also possible to use the customer name (or some value of the user computer) as part of the serial number check. This means in effect that the user of a pirated copy would have to know this information. Now all this might work for something like ADE but is not really quite so practical for scenery or aircraft? Sorry but I just realised that my experience is with protecting software so it is probably not very relevant to this conversation :o
 
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