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FS9 Hover~Helicopters

S

S92sikorsky

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33
Country
unitedstates
Hi there, I fly helicopters in FS9 & am wondering is there anything I can do/add to an Air File or Aircraft.CFG to possibly stop the aircraft from moving backward while in a hover? Id like to be able to be in a hover & pitch the nose up & hold it there.

I have no problem establishing a hover over a spot but after a few seconds I have to start fighting to keep it there & if I dont fight it then she moves backwards.

Thanks.
 
What you need to do is dependant on which model you are flying. Since you are in FS9 it has to be the Bell model.
In the air file, Record 1402 you could angle the Main Rotor thrust Vector Fore-aft forwards slightly which would give you a more nose up attitude when hovering.
Roy
 
The better the flight model is tuned, the harder the bird will be to hover steadily in a single spot. Every control input, whether cyclic, collective, or rudder, not to mention the engine torque, will affect every other control's effect on the bird. A slight movement of the stick, suddenly you need a touch more or less blade pitch, and the rudder is suddenly all wrong. A puff of air from the ground back up through the blades, suddenly the pitch will change, and the bird will start to descend. It's endless.
You have to be on top of all three control inputs any time you're trying to hover, whether over a single spot, or taxiing someplace. Some pilot once said hovering is like trying to balance a spinning plate, on top of a broomstick, while standing on a basketball, which is balanced on a beach ball.

All this presumes, of course, a relatively realistic flight model, and fairly high realism settings. Sure, you can make a helicopter "easy" to hover in one spot, but the easier it hovers, ther less realistic it is.
I fly helicopters in FSX:SE, using Helicopter Total Realism, a fantastic add-on program designed by a Aeronautical Engineer, and updated according to the inputs of a number of real helicopter pilots, and sim helicopter pilots. As long as you have a good config file for that particular helicopter, it will make it fly very realistically. NOT at all easily, but realistically.
MSFS, whether FS9, FSX, whatever, is horrible at modeling the flight of helicopters, but CAN be adjusted to make it work better. There are a couple of articles by Jordan Moore, a really superb MSFS helicopter designer, about how to adjust what to improve the way that the sim models/flies helicopters.
They can still be found on the net, one here: Article 1 , and one here: Article 2 . They were written for FS9, but work quite well for FSX as well. You might want to look them over.

I'm sorry, I ramble. I do hope something in all this helps a little, though... :wave:

Pay☺
 
I think you are maybe confused about the hover. If you pitch up the nose you will move backwards, pitch it down and you move forwards.
Phantom Tweak is only partly correct, the problem is not universal in the sim, it depends on which model you use. In FS9 you are stuck with the Bell model and it is pretty bad. In FSX and later you can use the EH101 model and it is representative of a helicopter with a decent flight control system.
It will hover very smoothly, but if you pull the nose up it goes backwards because that is what helicopters do.
Roy
 
I thought he was focused on flying in FS9. Sorry about that!

I didn't mean there was a gauge you could add to the helicopter to get a decent flight model for the hover.
HTR is an add-on program that takes what the sim is telling the helicopter to do, as well as what you tell the sim you want the bird to do, and adjusts the values fed to the helicopter IAW real world aeronautical formulae to make the values fed to the helicopter closer to the real world values. It does require the proper config file for that individual helicopter to function correctly, however. It's not "one-size fits all", though.
As well, it's a good idea to learn how to tweak the config file a little for your individual computer system, and your control input device. What works perfectly for my joystick won't be anywhere as good for yours, you see? Other than that little detail, though, it's pretty much autonomous. And there is documentation included that will both teach you how to adjust a config file for your system, and detailed descriptions of what each value in the config file does to the helicopter's flight model.
Granted, it takes a little bit of a learning curve to get very proficient at it, and you need as much detailed info about your chosen helicopter as you can get to put the right values into the config file for it to begin with, but, IMHO, the result, once you get it zeroed in, is well worth the effort. To me it is, anyway. I still love flying the B206, as well as the much more advanced HC Bell 412PE Jordan created, especially around the Portland area. Mountains, valley's, flatlands, you name it.
Throw in the abilities of AICarriers (in FSX at least) to add in sling/hoist loads I can pick up, carry someplace, and set down (GENTLY!!), and you've got a very enjoyable flying experience.

Second, Jordan's articles that I linked will adjust the sim's settings and config file, as well as an individual helicopter's aircraft.cfg file, to improve the individual helicopter's actions. Makes it a lot closer to "real world" than the "raw" sim. Jordan knew what he spoke of, believe me. Again, no gauge, just making the sim act more "correctly" with regards to helicopters.

Anyway, have fun with it!
Pat☺
 
The OP is asking for a helicopter to not move backwards when he pitches the nose up. That would not be realistic behavior.
I have used HTR and was unimpressed. Sorry.
Roy
 
Not only is the airfile edit a possibility, but, if it a B206 basis modeled aircraft, wich a lot more are than you might think, you can also add a coule sections to the aircraft.cfg file to improve the way the helicopter handles, hovering or flying.
Thus:
Code: 
[MainRotor]
Position = -0.50, 0, 2.05                       //Longitudinal, Lateral, Vertical feet from datum
Radius   = 26.4                               //feet
max_disc_angle = 7.0
static_pitch_angle = 4
static_bank_angle = 0
RatedRpm = 425
Number_of_blades = 5
Weight_per_blade = 116.0
inflow_vel_reference = 56.0
weight_to_moi_factor=0.577000

[SecondaryRotor]
Position = -15.00, 1.50, 0.55                    //Longitudinal, Lateral, Vertical feet from datum%
TailRotor = 1
Radius   = 6.41                                   //feet


[Helicopter]
//low_realism_stability_scale= 0.80, 0.90, 0.95             //Pitch , Bank, Yaw Scalars on Stability in Low Realism Settings
reference_length       = 30.10   
reference_frontal_area = 12.00 //10.00
reference_side_area    = 48.03
side_aero_center       = -38.0
lift_aero_center       = -34.0
right_trim_scalar      = 0.0
correlator_available   = 0
rotor_brake_scalar     = 2.0
torque_scalar          = 20.0
tail_rotor_translating_scalar =1.80
cyclic_roll_control_scalar  =2.20
cyclic_pitch_control_scalar =1.85
pedal_control_scalar        =1.70
collective_on_rotor_torque_scalar = 2.8
governed_pct_rpm_ref=1.000000

In the airfile, of course, are only 4 sections that really apply to helicopters. They are, in addition to 1101 and 1199, 1400-1404.

Mine are as very heavily modified, but I like to tweak things ;)
I try to make them fly IAW their pilot hand-book, NATOPS, and so on. I can usually get pretty close, too.

Best editor I've found for airfiles ia Aircraft Air File Manager 2. It usually gives a good, short, write-up on each record. What it does, how it affects the aircraft, etc. If you want to edit the airfile, I strongly recommend it.

Good fortune to you!
Pat☺
 
Ok, how do you stop forward movement to enter a hover? You apply control inputs that oppose forward motion. Once in a hover or rather just before, you cancel those inputs and hopefully stop forward motion. If at that point you want to change the way helicopters are flown then use a hover gauge. It has nothing to do with air files and everything to do with how helicopters are flown.
Roy
 
All very true, and quite accurate, Roy.

Having said that, did I misunderstand the OP's question? I thought he meant something along the lines of "If I lift off the ground, the bird drifts backwards, without any control inputs."
If I have been operating under a misapprehension this whole time, then I apologize.

Pat☺
 
Hi all, so I am flying the Virtavia AW101/EH101 Merlin in FS9, for some reason it holds a good hover if I move the Ref Datum in the middle section far out:

reference_datum_position= 0.0, 5.0, 0.0

I am also wondering some other aircraft like the Alouette 3 have great AIR Files, could I put their AIR files into the Merlin one & rename it Merlin.air?

Just thorwing out ideas here.

Ive been using Rob Barends great VTOL Gauge but it only does so much, the chopper when lifting off the ground literally jumps to 30ft so in essence there I can npt get a nice slow climb to a hover position. also that gauge kicks in at a certain airspeed so if im coming to a hover & the nose is up too much to slow my airspeed the aircraft will go backwards :-(
 
It always helps to say which airplane you have concerns about.
That model uses the Bell model. As it arrives it flies like the typical Bell, but I saw no big inclination for it to move backwards in a hover.
For real that airplane has some stability augmentation so the model does not fly like the real thing. It flies like a lightweight simple helicopter whereas in reality it is big and complex.
Incidentally, as it comes the air file is full of junk that does nothing. Only sections 1400 to 1404 are used. I deleted the unused sections and the helicopter flew the same.

FSXA introduced an updated version which had three startable engines and a revised set of aerodynamics and air file. Unfortunately FSXA was released before the development of that model was complete. As released the engine PID controller is badly tuned and the engines hunt most of the time. This can be fixed but not quickly or easily. Other than that it flies much more realistically for a large helicopter than the Bell model.
There is also a piston model for the Robinson which naturally is different to the turbine versions.

You could change the air file if you want to. I mentioned in Post 2 what I would try.
Roy
 
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