P3D v4 GP and custom ground lines

[GaryGB]

Thanks Arno !

The reason I mentioned Windows-7 64-Bit Display settings for screen fonts is: "Smaller - 100% (default)" non-scaled, is because 'long ago, in a far-away galaxy' on yet another computer with a different version of Windows, I had a similar problem with IIRC, version2.x of Jon's BGL2XML utility, wherein screen font scaling was configured for 125%, and I could not see 1 or more buttons at the bottom of the dialog box form (fixed by Jon in subsequent versions.)

BTW: I do not recall seeing an option to "size" the MCX G-Poly Wizard in prior versions, and in this MCX 12-09-2017 G-Poly Wizard version, we do not have a clue to availability for that option to "Drag-and-Size" in the form of a "control triangle" area at the lower right corner of the dialog box ...as we otherwise do on the bottom status bar for the main MCX work-space.

Also, Arno, please feel free to transfer the latter MCX troubleshooting portion of this thread into a separate new thread within the MCX forum, as I see it as incidental and well on its way to resolution; IMHO, those posts include:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-3#post-781058

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-3#post-781070

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-3#post-781072

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-3#post-781076

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-3#post-781078

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-4#post-781081


Thanks again !

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-3#post-781080

Just to try and get this thread back on topic, as I reported above, the problem appears to be related to Gerald's .ad4 file. It does not affect any of my (6) airports nor has anyone else (to my knowledge) reported such symptoms. Consequently, while the underlying problem may reside in the sim or the compiler, the trigger is unlikely to be anything other than an idiosyncrasy in the .ad4 file and/or ADE's processing of it. And, the problem is unlikely to be hardware-related.

As for what Don and Jon are doing to help Gerald, Don has done all he is able to do (for the moment) and, I'm sure, Jon is investigating. Perhaps he should be given a chance to complete that investigation.

Roby (and anyone else who thinks ADE-GPs output must be submitted to MCX prior to going to the sim), ADE generates fully-PV4-compliant ground polys including the Z-bias offset. You don't have to add the z-bias manually; check the MAT3 blocks in the _GP.bgl files and you'll see it's already there.

And, before somebody else goes off on a tangent, PV3/4 GPs can use .bmp textures. (I appreciate .dds textures are a little more efficient in FSX/P3D.) The base GP textures supplied with ADE are in .bmp (DXT1/3) fomat.. Anyone who wants .dds files can convert those base textures. ADE-GP gives priority to .dds textures when compiling for FSX/P3D.

Don

Thanks for that update and clarification, Don !

I have complete confidence that this issue will ultimately be resolved by Jon.

And I do always first consider it likely that you are quite diligent and thorough in your work, with all outstanding issues always resolved in a "final release" following any public or private beta testing.


Gerald can obviously create a fresh version of his project now to ensure that it does not 'inherit' any of the problems his *.AD4 file may currently have.

I'll leave it up to Gerald to indicate here in this thread, whether he is interested in proceeding any further with learning the final steps to implement a "work-around" for his GP issues via MCX (AFAIK, any recent MCX G-Poly Wizard 'development' version from August or September 2017 may also be compatible with P3Dv4).

If we don't speak again before your departure, here's hoping you have a safe and happy hiatus while away from FS Developer.

GaryGB

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

Hello Gary,

I did run through your entire conversion steps but to no awail: the first error I got was that "The decimal character on your machine is not set to dot. ...". So I changed it so it could run. The imported image of the GP look like this (see picture).
It looks like all the lines are straight and overlapping...

***EDITED***
On a second attempt I worked with the structure of the addon scenery package (the one with the two folders "scenery" and "texture"). In this attempt I got the same image with that red strip. Unfortunately also after converting it, nothing shows up in V4.
Another strange thing: I choose to convert all textures in DDS and ONLY 1 .DDS texture file was created: "gp_Red_20F.dds" seen on the screen.

Could it be that the ADE textures don't work with V4???
***EDIT END***

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Gerald:

As Don has examined this in detail, it is reasonable to conclude that regardless of 'how' or 'why', there is a problem with your *.AD4 file, it will require investigation by Jon Masterson (aka "Scruffyduck") as author of ADE.

I agree with Don that Jon properly should be allowed by all of us, whatever time he requires to troubleshoot the cause, find a way to prevent it, and perhaps find a way to repair such problems in .AD4 files when they have occurred.


So, IMHO, the best course of action at this time is to rebuild your Ground Polygons 'from the ground up" in a NEW ADE project, thereby generating a NEW *.AD4 file, and by indicating at the very beginning after launching the ADE GP feature, that you want to output a P3Dv4 GP; in other words, do not first output a FSX GP via the ADE GP feature for that AD4 project file.

IMHO, you should do this with the same ADE version used to make the GP which has the above cited display problems.

The results of that NEW GP creation process, if successfully displayed in P3Dv4 at run time, will be saved into that NEW *.AD4 file, which you should then immediately make available to Jon and Don to examine, as that may facilitate their troubleshooting of what to do about this unusual problem with your AD4 file.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-2#post-780738

As I said earlier, since no one else is complaining and I can't duplicate the issue except with Gerald's .ad4 file, I suspect the problem lies in his (.ad4) file and that the extra-wide GP lines are a clue. Perhaps his file has somehow been damaged other than in the transition from FSX to PV4 but in a way that ADE doesn't currently recognize.

So, rather than immediately proceeding into another learning scenario with the MCX G-Poly wizard in the midst of this ongoing and un-resolved troubleshooting scenario with the ADE GP feature in this thread, I hope you will first assist with the ADE GP troubleshooting process, by undergoing the effort of performing a totally NEW re-build of the ADE GP in question, presumably with a successful result by following the above recommended procedures, then provide the NEW 'successful' ADE GP *.AD4 file to Jon and Don ASAP.

GaryGB

 

[scruffyduck]

Guys

I have lost the plot on this and so far I do not see any issue with ADE itself. We seems to be going round in circles and dragging more people and possibilities into this issue. If someone can tell me what ADE is thought to be doing, not doing, or doing wrong then I will look at it but based on this wide ranging and confusing set of posts I am sitting on my hands

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Jon:

IIUC, a question has been raised as to whether Gerald's *AD4 file may have a 'problem'; so in my latter post I suggested he simply rebuild from scratch a new GP for LRTR (using a NEW AD4 file), then test to see if it displays OK in P3Dv4.

If that new GP for LRTR is successfully displayed in P3Dv4, I suggested that he should submit the AD4 for that successful project to you for future consideration as a resource, to see what may be' different' about it that 'might' in the future prove helpful to preventing- and possibly repairing- any such problems the original AD4 file 'may' have.

I hope that might be helpful to the short-term and long term goals for Gerald's project ...and ADE end users.

I anticipate the very next course of action needs to be undertaken first by Gerald.

And I shall refrain from sitting on my hands while awaiting further news on this troubleshooting scenario.


GaryGB

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

Jon (@scruffyduck ),

this is briefly what happened:
1. OLD PROJECT for FSX: Corrected and enhanced a small ARP called LRTR. I used only standsrd SbuilderX / ADE objects. On the APRON there are some custom ground lines and custom ground polygons. This ARP works perfect!
2. NEW PROJECT for P3D v4: Imported the FSX LRTR .BGL files from Project 1 and compiled the ARP for V4. All works well up to the custom ground lines and custom ground polygons. These do not show at all under v4. They are present in the project file and are visible in ADE though.

Since then, we try to get those lines and ground polys to show in V4 but nothing seems to work.

@GaryGB : I will do a brief test: Disable the custom LRTR scenery -> open the standard LRTR ARP from V4 -> make a custom grd line -> compile it and look for the results in V4. It will take some time till I report back (until then, I hope for Jon to see this post before we start the troubleshooting again...).

Thank you all for your time.
BR,
Gerald

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

Guys,

I have some news. Let's start from the beginning!

As described above under point "2", I imported the .BGL files (NOT the project .AD4 file) created for FSX. This did not lead to any results.
I now deleted all the project and searched for the initial FSX project .AD4 file.

1. After opening the AD4 file, ADE showed the custom ground lines very thick (look at picture). I had to edit every single one of them and simply hit OK in the GP line window. All the lines returned to normal!
The first compile did show something new in v4: the GP just infront of the ARP terminal (those stripes) did appear.

2. Analizing the project from within ADE I saw that ALL other GP (except those in front of the ARP terminal) were covered with an APRON. It might be that I created APRONS which I later changed in Ground Polygons. Unfortunately I did not know that changing a shape from an APRON to a GP will also keep the initial APRON shape!
Here comes the catch: deleting all those APRONS revealed the GP's!

Now I'm certain of 1 thing: This version of ADE (or P3D v4) will layer APRONS always over any kind of GP! Setting an offset for the GP in the compile window did not work. I tried offsets from 100 to 500mm but they stil didn't show.

I just did a test and converted all APRONS (which had overlaying GP or lines) into Ground Polygons and deleted those APRONS after conversion. All my lines are visible (even with an 0 offset).

Does this information help?

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

And here some pictures how it should look. Since I replaced the APRON with a GPoly, the surfaces look a bit strange (but this is due the different surface textures APRON/GPoly that gets applied so ignore the strange looking things).
In the 2nd picture with the ARP terminal you see to the right, the darker APRON texture covering the custom ground lines. THey are visible only on the lighter texture wich comes now from a ground poly.

 

[scruffyduck]

Big line widths is some sort of bug in ADE. I do not think that the layering of aprons over GP lines is related to ADE. After all it just generates the bgl file containing the elements and the bgl file for airport data (including aprons) is in a separate bgl file to any GP elements. As you found it is not good practice to load an airport from the bgl file where you have a project file.

Gerald - you say this problem arose because you converted Aprons to GP polys. There appears to be some sort of bug in the process that leaves an apron behind but somehow connected to the GP. I have added that to the list to investigate.

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

Gerald - you say this problem arose because you converted Aprons to GP polys.

Hi Jon,

in my project file under ADE I found that I had some APRONS and GPolygons perfectly overlapping (so the exact shape). I think I started the ARP and used APRONs to define the parking lot also. Then I must have converted them into GPolygons to add my own custom .DDS texture. Transforming the APRON shape in a GPolygon, left the APRON under it (like using a helper shape that is not deleted after the transformation to GPoly).
I did not notice this in FSX because the custom lines or ground polygons were always displayed over the APRON.
With v4 this is not the case since the APRON will be shown above anything else so therefore hide all your markings below it.

This might not be a ADE issue! Maybe something else in my P3D v4 installation could be causing this. I have addons like GEP3D, UTX and ENVTEX installed. ENVTEX does modify ARP textures but should not change the layering priority.

 

[scruffyduck]

I will try and do some testing tomorrow. What I can see though is the the apron and ground poly will always end up in the same place if you move one of them. I think that somehow I messed up the code and made a hybrid..............

 

[gadgets]

Gerald, when you place ground polys over ground polys, you must specify proper layering (the upper-leftmost textbox in the GP Editor.) If your aprons are made from GPs, then any markings on them must have a higher layer number. If they all have the same layer number, the last one drawn will appear in the sim.

Otherwise, it appears Gerald's problem has been isolated.

Something else I learned from this exercise. On a whim, I compiled all my GPs for FSX and added them into PV4. Lo and behold, they appeared. (I have almost 1000 at my CYYJ, so didn't check them all.) But, it does seem that PV4 will display FS8-style GPs - at least so long as they are placed over aprons and taxiways.

Don

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

Don,
you understood it wrong.

Make a rectangular shape with the APRON feature. Then select it -> right-click -> Make Custom Ground Poly. Now if you drag your newly made Poly to another position, you will see that the APRON is still underneath it (at first it will stay where the initial position was and after 1..2s it will jump underneath the draged GP). You will always end up having a GP and an APRON overlaped! This happened to Jon also.
Since you will no longer see the APRON in ADE because the GP will be shown above it all the time (you can select the apron from the List menu only) you will forget that it is there.

Having those 2 overlapped, P3D v4 will always draw the APRON above your GP so you will not see your custom GP but the APRON instead.
This happened with the custom ground lines also. They should always be displayed ABOVE the APRON (which is not the case). So to see them I had to delete the APRON.

 

[gadgets]

Make a rectangular shape with the APRON feature. Then select it -> right-click -> Make Custom Ground Poly

I was unaware of that feature in ADE. Further, when I right-click the apron in ADE 1.75, I don't see an option to Make Custom Ground Poly.

Regardless, it would be interesting to know at what GP layer such a GP is created.

Don

 

[robystar]

What is the layer you put this ground poly on??? That may make a difference and that would not be a bug in the GP part of ADE!
How did you manage to click on the apron feature and make a GP poly out of it??? That should not be the way to do it at all?
If you have a photoreal background, why would you still need to make an apron (it will not be in the right place anyway)?. Just get rid of it!
Don's GP is working perfectly in FSX but not quite in P3Dv4 (for me at the least) because I am having some lateral offsets, but nothing else.
And I have not the faintest whether it is due to a bug in ADE or in the ADE_GP editor.
Anyone else complaining?
Why does hardly no one come 'out of the closet'?
I feel I am alone in 'attacking' (that is what they think) their programs.
How can they improve when only one person has a problem? It may be their own fault.
I encourage more people to say what they find wrong (or not).
Just expressing, once again, my point of view.

Cheers,

Roby

PS: Do not expect an answer before mid next week because we will be moving south, like Jon does.

 

[gadgets]

Don's GP is working perfectly in FSX but not quite in P3Dv4 (for me at the least) because I am having some lateral offsets, but nothing else.

Roby, to my knowledge this is the first time you have been specific about any issue with ADE-GP in PV4 - even though you've spent a lot of verbage complaining about "buggy" software - and even thought I've asked you repeatedly to be more specific.

Presumably, the issue of your concern is long GP lines not aligning exactly with other features (like runways or other long lines). This has been the topic of several posts in this forum. I believe it to be an internal PV4 round-earth issue which I cannot avoid or fully overcome - although ADE-GP does minimize it.

If someone can tell me how to avoid it, I'll be happy to implement the solution. Until then, perhaps you should try using FS8-style GPs which, I discovered only this morning, are displayed properly by PV4 - at least when over aprons/taxiways, etc.

Don

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

I was unaware of that feature in ADE. Further, when I right-click the apron in ADE 1.75, I don't see an option to Make Custom Ground Poly.

Regardless, it would be interesting to know at what GP layer such a GP is created.

Look at the picture! You make an apron, select it and with right click you can choose (see picture).

It gets created on Layer 24.

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

Dear @robystar

What is the layer you put this ground poly on??? That may make a difference and that would not be a bug in the GP part of ADE!

The GP gets created on layer 24!

How did you manage to click on the apron feature and make a GP poly out of it???

Simple! Look at the picture above!

That should not be the way to do it at all?

Of corse not. It was my first airport and I did not want to use ANY GP in the beginning. So I created APRONS. Later I did create some own DDS textures and started to change the APRONS in GP's with my own texture. Small steps my friend...small steps!

If you have a photoreal background, why would you still need to make an apron (it will not be in the right place anyway)?. Just get rid of it!

I don't create a Photo-scenery. I have the image as a background in ADE to guide me where buildings, markings etc are positioned.

Well I do use the FREE version of ADE and I'm glad I can create FREE content for the community. I don't feel like these guys were not trying to help me. This thread is on fire.

 

[gadgets]

Gerald, give me some credit. I don't need your help in seeing what's on my display. When I right-click on an apron, THERE IS NO OPTION TO CREATE A GP!!!

As I said before, I was unaware of that feature. I have no idea why it is displayed on your system (or why it isn't displayed on mine) or what it does.

Creation of a GP at layer 24 is meaningless without knowing at what layer any GPs to be displayed on that background are created.

Don