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GP Layering problem

I have P3D v3 and v4 installed on my development computer so I am prompted to select one. I select v3. I do not have FSX installed so that is not an option.

Under the "Material (for P3D only) drop down box, it is set at Default, by default, which what I leave it at. When I click the drop down box, Default is the only option available.
 

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Thanks for sharing the image. I use ADEx v1.71 with P3D V3.3 and FSX. I get the exact same results you get when I try layering my ground polys just like you are. They don't respect the layering order, and pretty much don't work as intended. I posted the issue a while ago and was told there were "issues" with my ADEx version and P3D. Was also told that if I use P3D, then I should use the P3D Material Settings (which you have to create through the ADEx tool options) and specify a Z-bias for the layers.
However, my workaround has always been to compile the scenery using FSX SDK tools through ADEx, which you cannot because you only have P3D installed.
Any chance you still have the FSX CD's around so you can install the FSX SDK?

But then again, would love to see a solution to this issue.
 
Hi again:

AFAIK, a "negative" Z-Bias Material Property is only implemented via P3Dv2.x / 3.x / 4.x SDK and displayed at run time for P3D MDLs.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/prepar3d-v2-z-bias-material.428218/

https://www.scenerydesign.org/2014/06/gpw-and-p3d-v2/

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv3/LearningCenter/modeling/modeling_materials.html#Z-Bias_Level



IIUC, one must compile the P3D MDL via P3D version 2.x or later SDK XtoMDL- (and not via FSX SDK or P3Dv1.4x SDK, which is essentially identical to FSX SP2 / ESP)- in order for a "negative" Z-Bias Material Property to be implemented and displayed at run time.

The see how the output of ADE GP Editor Tool is implementing VTP Layering and a Z-Bias attribute, import ADE-output GP's intended for display in version P3D 2.x or later into MCX G-Poly Wizard. :idea:


PS: This web page by Alex Goff illustrates the MCX G-Poly Wizard dialog box GUI:

http://www.alexgoff.net/native-prepar3d-format-ground-polygons/


GaryGB
 
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Gary, I'm saying that compiling (in my case) with P3Dv3.3 SDK, even without material settings yields to me the same results as the OP, hence I generate my GPs using the FSX SDK, which also works with P3D.....just no Z bias setting capability.

I've tried the MCX ground poly wizard, but it asks me to enter coordinates (which is a pain), ADEx I just work directly over satellite image. Is there a way to extract the coordinates from ADEx? (pbly shouldn't need to)
 
This is a sample GP I generated last night with FSX SDK, for P3D use. Just no cool rain effects or custom specular effects (until I figure out how to generate properly with ADEx). :(

22712232_1360782204044104_6135774824376689025_o.jpg
 
Hello:

Your GP looks good ! :cool:


FYI: P3D 'currently' supports display of legacy FS2Kx SCASM / ASM code, BGLC-compiled non-MDL based Ground Polygons (aka "G-Polys / GP's") which do not allow for use of Specular or certain other Material Property attributes on those 'flat' 3D models.

Reportedly P3D support for display of legacy non-MDL based G-Polys will (eventually) end. :alert:


The alternative is to create native P3D-compliant MDL-based GP P3D version 2.x or later SDK XtoMDL-compiled (and not compiled via the FSX SDK or P3Dv1.4x SDK XtoMDL, that is essentially identical to FSX SP2 / ESP, and which produces 'flat' 3D MDLs that can not utilize Z-Bias Material Properties)- in order for a "negative" Z-Bias Material Property to be implemented and displayed at run time.

P3D version 2.x or later SDK-compliant MDL-based GP's do allow Specular / other Material Property attributes on 'flat' 3D MDLs. :idea:


Unfortunately, the methods utilized in more current (post-ADEv1.70 ?) versions ADE GP Editor Tool which, IMHO, is apparently well-intended in an effort at "making things simple", reportedly may not allow end users to discern via its GUI, just exactly what type of GP they are actually creating when they are working in "P3D mode". :oops:

AFAIK, this may make it necessary for some end users to import compiled BGLs containing their GPs into MCX to see whether they utilize "negative" Z-Bias, and whether those layers are using a 'staggered' layering scheme, wherein such layers are separated by an interposed group of 3 empty / un-assigned layers, so that assigned GP layers appear on ex: every 4th layer between ex: 16 and 32 (to show SimObject Shadows.)


Hope this helps clarify challenges end users described recently with (post-ADE_v1.70 ?) versions ADE GP Editor Tool. :)

GaryGB
 
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So why when I compile as a P3D 3.3 native GP, even if I assign a negative Z bias.....my base layers appear to float over flat terrain, and sometimes blend into photoreal beneath it? I may just start a new thread.
 
IIRC, Gerald was unable to get this to work predictably even if the GP was created entirely from scratch, rather than 'porting' a legacy non-MDL based GP to a P3D output ...via ADE-GP Editor Tool in ADE versions released after 1.70.

IIUC, he ended up importing the GPs into MCX G-Poly wizard, to then output P3D MDL-based GPs. :scratchch


http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-5

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/ground-polygons-no-shadows.441067/#post-782219


We are all looking forward to having Don 'troubleshoot' this ...after his return from some well-deserved time away. :cool:

GaryGB
 
I started messing around with the MCX G-Poly wizard and it is a pain because of the coordinates, but I think I am going to experiment with this.
 
I realize it's not yet Nov 6, but I've had an opportunity to review the entire post (my Internet access is generally quite restricted). Frankly, this thread has diverged in so many directions, it's sometimes hard to know which set of symptoms is being discussed.

All I can do at the moment is provide some general background. ADE-GP first implemented the z-bias capability when Pv3 was released. However, despite the documentation, Pv3 didn't seem to handle Z-bias "as advertised". But, the FS8-style GPs with a small vertical offset still worked. (Some users attempted to modify the ADE-GPs using MCX and confusion set in about the need to do so. There is no such need!)

I haven't had enough experience with PV4 to know whether or not it properly handles Z-bias. The process in ADE-GP is quite simple. ADE-GP simply inverts the layer number and inserts the result as a (-)ve z-bias, so the whole process is transparent to users. There is no other opportunity within ADE-GP to insert the z-bias - yet this thread mentions such attempts. (I understand a few users have tried to outsmart the system by using negative layer numbers which, you can now see, would result in a positive z-bias.) If PV4 operates "as advertised" and you use positive layer numbers with the PV4 version of ADE, absent other problems, ADE GP should work - at least it does for me.

As regards the Materials entry, ADE provides a "default" material that is intended to be used for simple GPs, e.g., a marking on pavement. If you want to do something fancy, then it's up to the user to create the necessary material - just as would be the case if you were creating a scenery model (which is what you are doing with PV4 GPs). There are just too many variations for ADE-GP to be able to automatically generate a suitable material. So, instead, it provides an editor for users to do so.

I use a wide variety of ADE-GPs with my own airports. I recently re-released those airports for use with PV4. I did not notice any issues with GPs - all of which use the default material, nor have any issues been reported.

So, based on the progression of this thread and the fact that PV3 and PV4 appear to generate different results, I am suspicious that, with PV4, the default material is not adequate for the use to which it was put. It's unlikely to be a drawing-order issue since ADE-GP sequences GPs by layer number.

What I'd like to suggest is that anyone still experiencing such issues investigate whether or not the default material is appropriate for the application (the material editor will display all its parameters) and, perhaps, experiment with another material. If this is not productive, please start a new thread and attach the AD4 file and as much relevant information as possible. I'll then investigate once I get back home.

Don
 
Don,

I noticed this behavior using the default and custom materials. As an example I used the add ground line tool to add a line which would be the taxiway center line. I set the line width and then for the main texture I used gp_PatternedLines_40F and for the line pattern style I used single yellow. After I placed this line using the default material I noticed that it did not always display on top of polygons below it even though its layer number was higher. I also noticed this behavior using custom polygons using the add custom ground polygon tool. There seemed to be no pattern to when it would show up in the sim and when it would not. I also noticed that if I made a change to one area of the airport, it would affect others, even though the polygons were not touching. I know it sounds strange and believe me it was! :) One time I would fly I would see the custom ground poly airport runway markings and then next time, nothing would display.

What I ended up doing was creating the airport runway, taxiway and apron as a 3D model using Sketchup. I imported this model in to MCX and created a .mdl file. I then used the ground polygon wizard in MCX and imported this .mdl file and set my layers there and exported it as a .bgl file and so far I am thrilled with the results. Everything is displaying as it should.

I was initially concerned because you have to apply coordinates to the MCX wizard but I set the origin of the model in Sketchup to the exact center of the runway and then took the coordinates from airport properties in ADE and it lined up perfectly.

As far as my work flow I didn't change anything from pre-ADE 1.75 to ADE 1.75 and I never noticed any of this behavior in the older versions.
 
Just a thought. What happens if you use the ADE-generated GPs with the Sketch-up airport? (If the GPs display sometimes - with the ADE airport, they must be present and valid. Perhaps the problem has something to do with the way you have configured the ADe taxiways.

Don
 
Don, it is happening with any poly line or poly that I create. I created several polygons for runway markings such as threshold stripes, numbers, center line and even hold short lines that are on the taxiway.
 
Ok guys. Don's back. Please post/send me (don at stuff4fs dot com) your .ad4 files together with (since there's more than one contributor to this thread) a brief description of what you see wrong.

Don
 
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