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Help Please: Elevation problem with sketchup models

K

krwynn

Messages
110
I'm working on an FSX project using 16 sketchup models from an area (with the modelers permission of course). This is actually my first project and I've been using fsx since the fs95 days. I've learned a ton through this project by reading and trying things over and over. I can now make photoreal scenery with blendmasks, night textures, changing autogen, etc. I also can now make night textures for the models and make them work thanks to ModelConverterX.

Sorry for the long winded intro but I wanted you to see I'm serious about making this project work. The problem I am having is with the models. They were built from the elevation level up because google will not accept any models on their globe that do not sit on the ground perfectly. So therefore it's not so simple as to use a flatten file for the building and then just drop it into place. For an example; I flatten an area to 28'. I set the building in place and adjust the altitude of it so that one corner sets perfect with the ground level. I then go around the perimeter of the building to make sure it's sitting correctly. However, in almost every case I have 2 good corners and the other 2 corners are either buried into the ground or 5' off the ground. In some instances both. Or, all 4 corners are good but the outside walls either hump up in the air or sag into the ground. None of these models have a roof either, so all the detail from inside can also either be elevated or buried. I tried making flattens (varying altitudes at the points) to fit but it never looks good and it usually affects another building close to it. I'm at my wits end. 5 days straight and I just can't seem to make it work. Is there anything I can try that maybe I'm not thinking of? Usually it wouldn't matter as most would be flying over the scenery and never notice it however this scenery package is of a historical place with some pretty awesome models which beg for some closer inspection. Thus the dilemma. This is the only thing holding this project up. Photoreal is done, models converted, and night textures completed.

Any help or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. This will be a freeware package or course and hope many will enjoy as it's an an area that no one has done yet. I'd also like to add that without this site and the tools created by Arno this project would have never been attempted. Some really fantastic stuff here. Thanks for sharing it and making it available.

Thanks again,

Kevin
 
Hello me,

What tools are you using to place the models?
I know you are using MCX for conversion, are you using that to place them?
 
MCX tool have something to fix the model, to take into account the Fsx round world or something so, I have not seen this issue in detail, but it could have something to do with this. this is a problem people have to cop with, but you can't correct the buildings one by one, can be tedious. what I do is to dig the building in the terrain, I can't bare the floating houses.
 
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Hi,

Can you maybe show some screenshots of the problem?

If the model in sketchup is made to fit on sloped terrain, I would not make a flatten in FS. I would try if it fits with the mesh.
 
arno said:
Hi,

Can you maybe show some screenshots of the problem?

If the model in sketchup is made to fit on sloped terrain, I would not make a flatten in FS. I would try if it fits with the mesh.
Click to expand...

Good corner of the building

GoodCorner1_zps2264939e.jpg


Corner 2. You can see by the color that this should be sunken in to the ground some.

Corner2_zps8104f30c.jpg


Corner 3 sinks about 2' into the ground

sunkencorner_zps7fe9fc00.jpg



If I raise corner 3 to sit correctly, the rest of the building perimeter looks like this about 2'-3' off the ground.

Ifsunkencornerisraised_zpsa4853005.jpg


This building fits better than most. The other 15 are far worse.
 
Sorry, but the elevation points in FS are spaced too far apart for you to get the kind of resolution you need to get all 4 corners flat on the ground.

If the terrain is sloped, the usual way this is handled in real life is to place the building into the ground at the elevation of the lowest possible point, and let the building be below ground along the rest of the sides. This, combined with a few flattens, should get you close enough. I don't think you are going to do much better.

Hope this helps,
 
tgibson said:
Sorry, but the elevation points in FS are spaced too far apart for you to get the kind of resolution you need to get all 4 corners flat on the ground.

If the terrain is sloped, the usual way this is handled in real life is to place the building into the ground at the elevation of the lowest possible point, and let the building be below ground along the rest of the sides. This, combined with a few flattens, should get you close enough. I don't think you are going to do much better.

Hope this helps,
Click to expand...

That's what I was afraid of. Thanks
 
Hello:

You could extend the object base horizontally across the "ground" and eventually end that extension below "ground" level in Sketchup. :idea:

Then texture the extensions with the matching ground texture to be used in FS from either your photoreal textures or screen shots of the FS default land class textures within FS at run time from a top-down view.

This would cover up parts of the structure that are having problems meeting the terrain mesh slope on the hillside.

This is referred to in some 3D modeling forums as using a "terrain skirt".

If your intended FS terrain mesh resolution will not allow sufficient area point vertices to be available when the mesh is rendered in FS at run time (see "TMVL" as a function of FS terrain mesh resolution expressed as LOD or QMID), then making / using a FS SDK "sloped flatten" may not be able to adequately meet the base of the object for the same reason that a custom tweaked terrain mesh could not meet the object base either.


[EDITED]

Note that use of FS terrain mesh files and slider settings at LOD-13 or above (5 Meters or less between "area points" aka elevation data points) to try and render high precision details in mesh / flattens (and in mapped high resolution terrain textures) may take too long to render even on a powerful FS computer during normal flight, and may make it both desirable and necessary to use 3D objects instead for display of certain features that require more detail at run time during a FS flight.

[END_EDIT]

ACES and other 3rd party FS developers have long used an extension of the base of a building object or placed the building on a matching shaped "pedestal" object with compatible "foundation" textures sunk into the ground beneath the object... so that objects on sloping terrain will not "hang over the edge" in space. For a more aesthetic appearance, one may need to use a terrain skirt.


FYI: Making an extended terrain skirt in Sketchup for a 3D object is nicely exemplified in Google Earth with 3D buildings enabled.

In the Google Earth location "Search" text box, enter: 55.978755,-3.600873 and notice the way the (high school age ?) author of the 3D object integrated the Linlithgow Palace object into the terrain.


Now look at the actual building object itself in Sketchup via 3D Warehouse:

In Sketchup Menu > File > 3D Warehouse > Get Models > "Search" dialog, enter: Linlithgow Palace, then download into Sketchup.




Oops... this object is in Scotland... so I guess what we are discussing here is actually a "terrain KILT" ! < sorry George ! > :D


A few "Sketchup terrain skirt" links:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les;&gs_nf=1&gs_mss=Sketchup terrain s&pq=3d warehouse cammys linlithgow palace&cp=22&gs_id=q9&xhr=t&q=Sketchup terrain skirt&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Sketchup+terrain+skirt&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=4160ba7ec3c5523d&bpcl=35243188&biw=1023&bih=656


PS: Google Earth (previously developed by "Keyhole" which employed a few former ACES team members) uses a texture tile model somewhat similar to FS9, and a 3D world model somewhat similar to FSX. ;)


Hope this gives you some more helpful ideas ! :)

GaryGB
 
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GaryGB said:
Hello:

You could extend the object base horizontally across the "ground" and eventually end that extension below "ground" level in Sketchup. :idea:

Then texture the extensions with the matching ground texture to be used in FS from either your photoreal textures or screen shots of the FS default land class textures within FS at run time from a top-down view.

This would cover up parts of the structure that are having problems meeting the terrain mesh slope on the hillside.

This is referred to in some 3D modeling forums as using a "terrain skirt".

If your intended FS terrain mesh resolution will not allow sufficient area point vertices to be available when the mesh is rendered in FS at run time (see "TMVL" as a function of FS terrain mesh resolution expressed as LOD or QMID), then making / using a FS SDK "sloped flatten" may not be able to adequately meet the base of the object for the same reason that a custom tweaked terrain mesh could not meet the object base either.

Note that use of FS terrain mesh files and slider settings at LODs above 13 (5 Meters) to try and render high precision details in mesh / flattens (and in mapped high resolution textures) may take too long to render even on a powerful FS computer during normal flight, and may make it both desirable and necessary to use 3D objects instead for display of certain features that require more detail at run time during a FS flight.

ACES and other 3rd party FS developers have long used an extension of the base of a building object or placed the building on a matching shaped "pedestal" object with compatible "foundation" textures sunk into the ground beneath the object... so that objects on sloping terrain will not "hang over the edge" in space. For a more aesthetic appearance, one may need to use a terrain skirt.


FYI: Making an extended terrain skirt in Sketchup for a 3D object is nicely exemplified in Google Earth with 3D buildings enabled.

In the Google Earth location "Search" text box, enter: 55.978755,-3.600873 and notice the way the (high school age ?) author of the 3D object integrated the Linlithgow Palace object into the terrain.


Now look at the actual object building itself in Sketchup via 3D Warehouse:

In Sketchup Menu > File > 3D Warehouse > Get Models > "Search" dialog, enter: Linlithgow Palace, then download into Sketchup.

Oops... this object is in Scotland... so I guess what we are discussing here is actually a "KILT" ! < sorry George ! > :D


A few " Sketchup terrain skirt" links:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=1&gs_mss=Sketchup%20terrain%20s&pq=3d%20warehouse%20cammys%20linlithgow%20palace&cp=22&gs_id=q9&xhr=t&q=Sketchup%20terrain%20skirt&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Sketchup+terrain+skirt&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=4160ba7ec3c5523d&bpcl=35243188&biw=1023&bih=656


PS: Google Earth (previously developed by "Keyhole" which employed a few former ACES team members) uses a texture tile model somewhat similar to FS9, and a 3D world model somewhat similar to FSX. ;)


Hope this gives you some more helpful ideas ! :)

GaryGB
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion. I had thought of that but my complete lack of modeling skills or knowledge using sketchup stalled that avenue. I'm not intimidated by much, but sketchup makes me want to sit in the corner and weep.
 
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