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Help with ADE, terrain, etc.

S

Steve Rosenow

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us-washington
Years ago on Hovercontrol, I designed a scenery package for helicopter simulation enthusiasts, that recreated the Mount St. Helens visitor centers in Washington State as individual airports with landable helipads. Each contained its own scenery kit (vehicles, shrubbery, etc) but it had been compiled for FS2004.

Enter a long, self-imposed hiatus.

Now that Arno Gerretsen's Model Converter X (as well as Luis Sa's SBuilderX) has made things so much easier in terms of scenery design - especially with programs like SketchUp - I have decided to return to Flight Simulator X scenery development. My first project is a massive update of the Mount St. Helens scenery kit to be compatible with Orbx's FTN PNW scenery add-on. So far, I've added every visitor center, every highway bridge (which was missing in the Orbx package) and every major landmark on Highway 504 up to Mount St. Helens

In the process of designing two of the four visitor centers, I have ran into a problem. When I originally released the Mount St. Helens Scenery Objects package on Hovercontrol and AVSIM, the "airports" were compiled with AFCAD. This poses a problem in FSX because, like 2004, FSX does not support sloping airport aprons (which I've used to simulate parking lots), unless you use a 3D design tool to do so.

That leaves me with having to design two of the four visitor center parking lots with SketchUp, as they have a slope to them.

AT ISSUE: I have SketchUp 2015. Trimble has since removed the ability to import terrain data from Google's servers into SketchUp2015 or any non-pro version of SketchUp since the release of SketchUp Pro 2017. The "Add Location" feature which used to do so, is blank.

In an exhaustive search, I have also been unable to locate LOD10 or LOD12 terrain source DEMs for the location of these.

So, I need to see if it's possible to decompile a terrain BGL and import the DEM data into SketchUp to do so. That way the sloping apron design task will be much easier.

Is there a way to do this? I have exhausted every search imaginable.

For those interested, here's a video tour of what I'm doing.


-Steve
 
Hi Steven:

In ADE you would only need to add a "Start Location" or Helipad at the desired Geographic coordinates and Altitude of the "airport".

If you do not need to add an airport entry to the FSX airports list, you can use the 'Saved Flight' *.FLT files you already have created.


To display custom textures on the terrain at the locations in question so that they are on top of OrbX FTX PNW custom land class textures, you can exclude the local PNW terrain grid LOD-9 / QMID-11 quad texture tile(s), then replace that scenery with either a legacy format VTP terrain mesh-clinging textured polygon, or a FSX CVX vector terrain mesh-clinging polygon textured with a default FSX land class texture.

The legacy format VTP terrain mesh-clinging textured polygon or FSX CVX vector terrain mesh-clinging polygon textured with a default FSX land class texture can be made in SBuilderX.

Alternatively, via SBuilderX, a custom photo-real aerial imagery land class texture BGL can be made from online tile servers for personal use, or with fee-based licensed imagery data for public distribution / commercial use.


Although ADE 'could' make the excludes and the replacement FSX CVX vector terrain mesh-clinging polygon textured with a default FSX land class texture, it would be easier to see what you are working on and to visualize the terrain grid lines for the involved quads within SBuilderX.


The local default FSX terrain mesh is higher resolution (LOD-14) than that provided by the OrbX FTX PNW terrain mesh (LOD-12), and although both have the same extent of coverage at their lowest LOD level, the alpha-numeric name of the default FSX terrain mesh BGL:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0101\scenery\0dem_StHelens.bgl

...also gains a higher display priority and ensures that the FSX rendering engine will load it on top of the PNW terrain mesh:

[FSX install path]\ORBX\FTX_NA\FTX_NA_PNW07_MESH\scenery\4_mesh_multiLOD4-12_FTX-PNW_WA-S_v6.bgl (Payware)

...or:

[FSX install path]\ORBX\FTX_NA\FTX_NA_PNW07_MESH\scenery\4_mesh_multiLOD4-12_FTX-PNW_DEMOv2.bgl (Demo)


NOTE: Your "Bear Meadow Campground - Mount St. Helens" location falls outside both the default FSX higher resolution (LOD-14) terrain mesh and the custom lower resolution (LOD-12) OrbX FTX PNW terrain mesh.

Thus, that location would fall back to a FSX default base USA terrain mesh resolution of LOD-10 (30 Meters or 1 Arc-Second).


FYI: This default FSX terrain mesh data was blended for compatibility with the higher resolution terrain mesh BGL via a particular load sequence for elevation source data via the *.INF file when compiled by SDK Resample into a separate default BGL:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0101\scenery\dem0101.bgl

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/higher-lod-terrain-not-drawn.435658/

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ptaylor/2007/10/28/game-engine-design-design-goals-and-choices/



AFAIK, you should have no compatibility issues with FSX loading and display of terrain mesh between the above (3) BGLs, and IMHO should not need to perform any modification of the local terrain mesh for your above cited project and existing saved flight locations, other than at:

* Windy Ridge Viewpoint

...and:

* Johnston Ridge Observatory

...via a CVX vector' sloped' flatten BGL.


Although Sketchup does have the ability to import certain GIS DEM file formats and create a 3D model 'TIN', it would struggle severely with a massive data overload at the resolutions required to work with elevation data points gridded to a 3-Meter (LOD-14 equivalent) interval density for even a very small area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulated_irregular_network


BTW: One must bear in mind that even when we had access to "Terrain" data via Sketchup 'Geo-location', that was a much lower resolution SRTM 90 Meters (aka "3-Arc Seconds", or LOD-6 / LOD-7 at best), and would not match the FSX default run time terrain mesh 'shape' anyway. :pushpin:


Also, although MCX does have the ability to import / convert a ex: Sketchup 3D model TIN into a FSX CVX vector 'sloped' flatten BGL, both of those latter flight scenario locations could actually be dealt with by simply re-positioning the Helo loaded into FSX by the *.FLT file, then saving that flight data back into the same *.FLT file ...to "update" scenarios for Windy Ridge Viewpoint and Johnston Ridge Observatory. ;)

Hope this helps with considering your options for porting your project from FS9 to FSX. :)

GaryGB
 
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Some success.

I was able to finally locate source DEM material at 1.5 meter and 1/9 arc second resolution (which is blazing sharp in detail) and I was able to extract portions of that source DEM to manage working with the two visitor center parking lots a lot better.

However, I have stumbled upon another issue (posted in another thread) that is wracking my brain.
 
Hi Steve:

1/9 Arc Second would be "1/3" of 1/3 Arc Second (aka 30 Meters between elevation data points on the ground) = 10 Meters

Thus, 1/9 Arc Second would be 1/3 of 1/3 Arc Second (aka 10 Meters between elevation data points on the ground)

That would be compiled via SDK Resample to 9.6 Meters between elevation data points on the ground, and at LOD-12, it would not be a higher resolution terrain mesh than that provided by the OrbX FTX PNW terrain mesh:

[FSX install path]\ORBX\FTX_NA\FTX_NA_PNW07_MESH\scenery\4_mesh_multiLOD4-12_FTX-PNW_WA-S_v6.bgl (Payware)

...or:

[FSX install path]\ORBX\FTX_NA\FTX_NA_PNW07_MESH\scenery\4_mesh_multiLOD4-12_FTX-PNW_DEMOv2.bgl (Demo)


The 1.5 Meter DEM (probably derived from LiDAR data) would be compiled via SDK Resample to 2.4 Meters between elevation data points on the ground, and at LOD-14 would be a higher resolution terrain mesh than that provided by the OrbX FTX PNW terrain mesh.


FYI: Here's a reference table on the FS SDK Terrain Grid and associated LOD / QMID quad-based resolutions / coverage extents:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/flattens.425495/post-633002


GaryGB
 
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GaryGB said:
Hi Steve:

1/9 Arc Second would be "1/3" of 1/3 Arc Second (aka 30 Meters between elevation data points on the ground) = 10 Meters

Thus, 1/9 Arc Second would be 1/3 of 1/3 Arc Second (aka 10 Meters between elevation data points on the ground)

That would be compiled via SDK Resample to 9.6 Meters between elevation data points on the ground, and at LOD-12, it would not be a higher resolution terrain mesh than that provided by the OrbX FTX PNW terrain mesh:

[FSX install path]\ORBX\FTX_NA\FTX_NA_PNW07_MESH\scenery\4_mesh_multiLOD4-12_FTX-PNW_DEMOv2.bgl


The 1.5 Meter DEM (probably derived from LiDAR data) would be compiled via SDK Resample to 2.4 Meters between elevation data points on the ground, and at LOD-14 would be a higher resolution terrain mesh than that provided by the OrbX FTX PNW terrain mesh.


FYI: Here's a reference table on the FS SDK Terrain Grid and associated LOD / QMID quad-based resolutions / coverage extents:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/flattens.425495/post-633002


GaryGB
Click to expand...


I think you're misinterpreting me a bit.

I am not looking to compile mesh. I was looking to decompile it. Fortunately, I stumbled upon the source data that Orbx/FTN uses for the region through the USGS and was able to extract segments of that mesh for my project.
 
Hi Steve:

It is possible to use ex: 3DEM to 'decimate' elevation source data to reduce the complexity of original USGS DEM data so that it will import into Sketchup without a "bugsplat", and thus to create 3D models of terrain.

When imported into MCX such 3D models will ultimately need to be exported as either a textured 3D MDL G-Poly (which must be both 'flat' and 'level'), or a CVX vector 'sloped flatten' BGL that can modify the FS local terrain mesh shape, and which will be textured with either default FS or OrbX FTX PNW land class.


Please feel free to explain in greater detail how- and why- sections of DEM data imported Sketchup would be required to:

* "design two of the four visitor center parking lots with SketchUp, as they have a slope to them"


IIUC, you want sections of DEM data imported Sketchup because:

* "FSX does not support sloping airport aprons (which I've used to simulate parking lots), unless you use a 3D design tool to do so"


AFAIK, you intend to 3D model the "visitor center parking lots" with SketchUp in order to make those parking lots:

* "compatible with Orbx's FTN PNW scenery add-on"


Certainly you may have design concepts which will prove to be quite interesting to see in FS at run time.


However, based on what I understand of your design concept so far:

...because I see most FS scenery developers:

* extend the foundation depth of their building objects so that they sink into the local terrain mesh as needed on slopes


...and because I also see most FS scenery developers:

* use custom photo-real aerial imagery BGLs that 'drape' terrain mesh-clinging textures onto the local ground surface

...or:

* use 'flat' 3D modeled G-Polys textured with aerial imagery


...I'm curious why you want terrain 3D terrain surface models with 9.6 Meters between elevation data points (so complex they may 'crash' Sketchup) in order to create FSX format "parking lots" intended "to be compatible with Orbx's FTN PNW scenery add-on" ?

Thanks in advance for your explanation. :)

GaryGB
 
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The reason I am doing it is because currently, FSX ground texture resolution doesn't support the crystal-clear sharpness of a 4096x4096 texture map for a parking lot and still be able to reasonably discern features such as parking lot striping, especially since I plan on making my parking lots look realistic by way of populating them with vehicles from various scenery object libraries. From 1,500 feet AGL (having flown over the mountain in a Bell 206) you can still make out parking lot striping, and I'd like to replicate that.

My package of Orbx FTN PNW contains a photoreal ground texture scenery file for Mount St. Helens and the immediate blast zone that incorporates the two visitor centers I am replicating (out of the four I've modeled), however the source imagery for the ground textures is not of very high resolution. Google Earth's Historical Imagery Archive tab shows it being sourced to an image acquisition date of November 2011 (matched it shadow-for-shadow). As such, the source imagery's parking lot detail is very substandard.

Even the most currently-used imagery by Google - while stunningly sharp - doesn't come close to the sharpness I'd be able to obtain by modeling the parking lot in SketchUp and assigning a 4096x4096 texture map - and I'd end up having to painstakingly remove artifacts in the source imagery before even compiling the ground texture BGL.

This is one of the parking lot's texture maps. It's the Johnston Ridge Observatory which has a slope that descends slightly northward. The other - Coldwater Ridge - has a parking lot that slopes downward to the southeast in the direction of Mount St. Helens.

In the JRO parking lot, the highest point is at the loop on 504 which marks the end of the highway. The lowest point in the parking lot is at the northernmost exit. Aside from sloping down to the north, the topography of the parking lot is flat with no physical features. The slope is extremely apparent in Google Streeview imagery of the parking lot acquired in 2007.

In this view, north is the top of the image.

If there's another way of doing this, I would be more than open to suggestions.

With respect to importing DEM data into SketchUp, I was able to use 3DEM and isolate just the immediate areas surrounding the parking lots to get the terrain data I need, without crashing SketchUp.
 

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Thank you for that clear explanation, Steve. :)

Your goal of creating high-resolution textured ground surface 3D objects that match the local terrain shape of the real world with slopes instead of being 'flat' G-Polys will be an interesting challenge that is relatively distinct from other such scenery design concepts. :scratchch

Keep up the diligent efforts with innovation and testing for your project. ;)

GaryGB
 
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