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Key Starter; OFF/ON/START

lionheart

lionheart

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Hey all,

I am making a key starter switch. This does not have Magneto's in it, just off/on/start. Its normal position would of course be 'on', and start position is only when the starter is humming along, when you are pulling on the switch with mouse cursor.

How might one model this? The present version 'switch_starter' has just 2 positions, so this would have a third position squeezed in there.

I dont want to cheat and use the magnetos on/off route, as I have external circuits with left and right Magneto switches. If I put magnetos into the starter switch animation, then it will 'toggle' the Mag switches also, which is grim..


Any thoughts? How would you shuffle in a dummy position into a starter switch?
 
Hey Bill,

that sounds a bit weird to me. What does the "on/off" function actually do? The starter is usually just a small DC Motor that can either be off (default) or on (start). After the startup it doesn't make any sense to leave the motor on except if it is used as a generator as well.
Another possibility is of course that the manufacturer ran out of two-way-spring-loaded-switches and installed something similar :D

Can you give us more info about what the switch actually triggers?

Cheers,
Vitus
 
Hey Vitus,

Its an ignition switch like a car has, key operated. Put the key in, turn to 'on' position, continue rotation to 'start' position, hold till engine catches, release to leave at 'on' position.

Das ist alles... Kein mehr. Kein Magneto's rennen. Nichts aber staerten...
 
But there is a big difference between the ignition of car versus airplane engines. Cars don't have an independent magneto circuit to power the spark plugs. That's why you need the "on" position in a car-key-switch. You have to tell your car to light the fire ;)
IF your airplane motor has such an ignition system, it wouldn't need magnetos. As the FS doesn't support this kind of engine I would recommend to reduce the number of magnetos to one and simply engage this one magneto with the switch.

Another option is that the ON switch grounds the magneto circuit. By grounding the magnetos you turn of the power supply of the spark plugs. In some airplanes you have some sort of "master magneto switch" which does exactly that. Here is the magneto switch for a twin engine (I think WW2 bomber). The round knob in the middle is such a master ignition switch:
3264t.jpg


If you want to implement something like that, it's getting a bit more complicated, because even though there is a master-ignition variable in FSX, I found it doesn't really work...
But there is a (complicated) way to do that anyway which I can show you.

Cheers,
Vitus
 
The aircraft has separte on/off switches for the two magnetos.

The off/on/start switch has three functional tasks:

1. interrupt the magneto's circuits, thus stopping ignition instantly
2. close the two magneto's circuits, thus completing the ignition path
3. engage the starter motor while held in position, then return to the on position when released

Give the limits of FS's internal systems, we don't have the ability to "rewire" the system at will, so we need some 'cheats' to provide the functionality.

First of all, both magneto switches have to be "wired in series" with the ignition switch. IOW, if the ignition switch is OFF, then the magneto's won't actually be triggered. See the "logic script" I provided in another thread. All that needs to be added to both magneto's logic is a condition that will block the actual K:event that sets the sim's mag circuits.

To shut down the engine however, we can simply "switch the magnetos off." Because the two magneto switches are controlled by their own custom L:var, the physical 3d switch won't change, but we've effectively dupilicated the operation of the three position ignition/starter switch!

Simple! :D
 
Hey Bill,

yep that would be my solution as well. It is getting a bit more tricky if you want the player to trigger the magnetos with the keyboard. But apart from that, it's the way :)

I only object here:

n4gix said:
1. interrupt the magneto's circuits, thus stopping ignition instantly
Click to expand...

This is something you shouldn't do at all. If you simply open the circuit, the magnetos will still move, hence the coils will be powered. If you don't put the electric energy somewhere the coils will overheat and eventually be destroyed. Magnetos always need closed circuits to prevent that from happening. The way to do this is either by short circuiting the coils or by grounding them.

That is basically the same reason why you install Flyback diodes in electric motors. If you remove these diodes and turn the motor without closing the circuit, you will damage your motor.

Cheers,
Vitus
 
I 'simplified' things. :(

I went with the basic 'starter' switch, kept the Magnetos in their own circuits.

Its not high realism like I usually like, but hey, you can shut down the engine via the Mag switches.
 
Last edited:
Hi Bill
You can use
Code: 
4 (>K:magneto1_set)
You just need to work out in xml a 3 position switch which allows a mouse click for 1st step and hold/release for 2nd step
Easiest way would be use left mouse button for the switch on off
use the right for starter engage when mouse button is held down and the above var is = to 1
There might be a way to do it with some fancy xml mouse code using the one mouse button, but my brain is fried as I quit smoking a mth ago and all my xml code was stored in my gray matter via nicotine bridges :D ...basically I cant think straight ;)
Wozza
 
Vitus said:
That is basically the same reason why you install Flyback diodes in electric motors. If you remove these diodes and turn the motor without closing the circuit, you will damage your motor.
Click to expand...

All of which is true, but hardly matters for non-simulated conditions...

Another way to "kill the engine(s)" would be to simply close the fuel valve(s).

The end goal is that the engine(s) stop whenever the switch is in the OFF position. ;)
 
Au-MaV said:
There might be a way to do it with some fancy xml mouse code using the one mouse button, but my brain is fried as I quit smoking a mth ago and all my xml code was stored in my gray matter via nicotine bridges :D ...basically I cant think straight ;)
Wozza
Click to expand...


Hey Wozza,

Thanks for the heads up on that.

I sympathise with you on quitting cigarette smoking. My brother just quit about 3+ weeks ago. I have never seen him so uptight... He was really doing bad for a while, with some very bad episodes of coughing.. (like coughing up lung debris). Not good. He is a bit more happier now. He has one of those electronic cigarettes. It seems to help him a little bit.
 
n4gix said:
All of which is true, but hardly matters for non-simulated conditions...

Another way to "kill the engine(s)" would be to simply close the fuel valve(s).

The end goal is that the engine(s) stop whenever the switch is in the OFF position. ;)
Click to expand...
Yep thats what I do, I prefer to use the K:TOGGLE_ENGINE1_FAILURE tag as it will defeat ctrl +E and allow normal use of other systems.
Wozza
 
lionheart said:
Hey Wozza,

Thanks for the heads up on that.

I sympathise with you on quitting cigarette smoking. My brother just quit about 3+ weeks ago. I have never seen him so uptight... He was really doing bad for a while, with some very bad episodes of coughing.. (like coughing up lung debris). Not good. He is a bit more happier now. He has one of those electronic cigarettes. It seems to help him a little bit.
Click to expand...
Yeah it sucks but the powers to be here have priced me out of another thing I enjoyed...... grrrrrrr :)
 
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