Lake Shorelines

[John Hubbard]

I run FS9 with a beautiful scenery of Don Eliot's for Minchumina. Unfortunately, with FSG mesh and the default scenery some of the cabins are in the water.

To try to rectify this, I installed UT Canada & Alaska which I used to run years ago. I hoped that it might be a better 'fit' for FSG mesh than the default terrain. It's not, unfortunately

I am not sure how to go about correcting this. Should I use SBuilder to move the UT shorelines? Or should I try to decompile Don's scenery .bgl and change the cabin coordinates using Cooktop on the .xml file?

Thanks for advice.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi John:

A Google search for Donald Elliott's Lake Minchumina add-on scenery was unsuccessful turning up a download link on FS websites.



However, your prior discussions here at FSDeveloper which mentioned FS2002 effects from that and other sceneries suggest the likelihood of that scenery package being based on legacy FS scenery code of SCASM rather than XML / BGLComp code which largely replaced SCASM methods in FS2004 (aka "FS9").

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21154


Assuming your work would be for use on your own system and not distributed to others without first getting permission of the author, you could decompile that legacy format SCASM based scenery into *.SCA or *.SCM source code and edit placement info, then re-compile it using SCASM for use in FS9.

However, it might be easier to use Arno's ModelConverterX (aka "MCX") to convert the SCASM-based scenery objects for output as FS2004 Model-based objects placed via XML.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=ModelConverterX

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=87

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5W0dQvpwrI&feature=player_embedded



Incidentally, http://www.xml.com/pub/r/1083 shows "XMLCooktop" to require an operating system (aka "OS") platform prior to Windows XP, so if you needed to do some XML work, you'd want to ensure compatibility of any editor for your current OS first.

Many folks just use Windows NotePad and save as an "XML" file extension.


NOTE: Decompiling and editing the multiple and rather esoteric large Assembler-based / BGLC-compiled LWM scenery files from FS own default or UT files is possible ...but fraught with complexity (and of course the UT files could not be distributed to others), so I would recommend considering the methods above instead.


Hope this info helps with planning your project !

GaryGB

 

[John Hubbard]

Thanks a bunch for all this GaryGB. You took a lot of trouble to source some very good links. I watched the video - Arno makes the whole thing look easy-peasy.

Don's little FS2002 scenery was never released for general use - he distributed only to Alaska Gold VA members -now a defunct organisation. As you say it used SCASM code.

Based on your suggestions I think my best approach by far is to use MCX. Hopefully I will be able to move the cabins fairly easily but I am not sure what I will do about the water runway. Perhaps the orange cones will show up as objects which can be converted and re-sited??

To divert, I used Cooktop for creating approaches a la Jim Vile. I liked it because it used colour coding so if there were syntax errors they showed up, and also it had a spell checker. You are correct about XP, I ran Cooktop on an old Win2000 machine - still operational.

Thanks again for your advice. I will post again with an update later in the week or at the weekend. BTW, if I am successful in converting Don's file I do not plan to distribute it to anyone else.

 

[Tejal Bernardo]

I have had to do that a bunch of times, dissasemble and relocated the object one by one, joining them into a new object library, to his new position, and lucky we have tools that can do that.

 

[John Hubbard]

Hm...no joy so far. I am running FS9 in XP.

MCX did not convert the FS2002 scenery .bgl files directly. I used BGLAnalyze 3.1 to dissassemble the larger file and this produced a .sca file. Again, MCX would not open this - error said,

'Was out of range. Must be non-negative and less than the size of the collection'.

The program froze and I had to quit - nothing reported in the event log.
I've attached the two .bgl files in the hope that someone can put me right.

Thanks.

 

[GHD]

Hm...no joy so far. I am running FS9 in XP.

MCX did not convert the FS2002 scenery .bgl files directly.

Are you sure you have the latest version?

There were a few triangulation errors and unknown opcodes, but I can see some of the models:



The other file is a simple flatten.

 

[John Hubbard]

Thanks, George. Am using MCX 1.2 which is the latest I think.

Can you talk me through exactly what you did? I must be missing something obvious. Settings?

 

[GHD]

Hi John,

I am using version 1.3 (the latest development version).

All I did was drag/drop minchumina.bgl onto the open MCX window.



Another of the models:

 

[John Hubbard]

Magic, George, pure magic!

Next step will be to find coordinates for the three or four cabin objects. I notice that the water runway cones do not appear as objects here. But, the cabins first!

Thanks!

 

[John Hubbard]

Some success!

This object was not listed when I loaded the .bgl directly into MCX. Most of the objects were in the list (as shown in George's post) but not this and not the orange marker buoys for the water runway.

To get around this I generated a .sca file using BGLAnalyze 3.1 and when this was loaded into MSX a more complete list of objects was produced.
I then loaded the .mdl file for the cabin into the MCX wizard using corrected coordinates. Now I have two cabins! How do I remove the original waterlogged one? Just a simple exclude?

 

[John Hubbard]

Next problem is how to place the chimney smoke.

Using FSEffects (FS8) I created an .api using the original .fx file. I ran the .api file through MCX and got long error message...

'Unhandled exception has occurred....Object ref not set to an instance of an object'.

Hm...I'm not sure what this means but it doesn't sound too promising.

I have a .sca file which opens with Notepad. Is there any way to convert a .sca file to an .xml file so that I can place the smoke effect?

 

[GaryGB]

Some success!

This object was not listed when I loaded the .bgl directly into MCX. Most of the objects were in the list (as shown in George's post) but not this and not the orange marker buoys for the water runway.

To get around this I generated a .sca file using BGLAnalyze 3.1 and when this was loaded into MSX a more complete list of objects was produced.
I then loaded the .mdl file for the cabin into the MCX wizard using corrected coordinates. Now I have two cabins! How do I remove the original waterlogged one? Just a simple exclude?

Hi John:

In MCX on the Options Tab under Importer Settings, if I set:

* Replace User Variables = False

* Use Conditions = AlwaysTrue

...When the BGLAnalyse31 minchumina.sca file is imported, I get 15 objects.


In MCX on the Options Tab under Importer Settings, if I set:

* Replace User Variables = False

* Use Conditions = AlwaysFalse

...When the BGLAnalyse31 minchumina.sca file is imported, I get 57 objects.

Note, however, at the bottom of minchumina.sca (on line #100898 in "ConTEXT"), one can see that BGLAnalyze31 states there are actually 59 "objects" defined in the SCASM code, yet MCX reports/renders only 57 of them.


Possibly Arno could comment on this mis-match of objects listed/defined versus objects rendered by MCX, and advise us on what we might do in these situations ?



FYI: One can open that minchumina.sca file in the excellent freeware "ConTEXT" editor for easier viewing / editing:

http://www.contexteditor.org/


For line numbering (helpful with longer SCASM *.sca file decompilations under discussion here), I configure:

ConTEXT Menu > Options > Environment Options > Editor Tab > "check" Line numbers checkbox



For customized color file format display in ConTEXT with SCASM, I configure:

ConTEXT Menu > Tools > Set Highlighter > x86 Assembler



NOTE: A copy of C:\Program Files\ConTEXT\Highlighters\x86 Assembler.chl

...renamed to:

C:\Program Files\ConTEXT\Highlighters\SCASM.chl

...can be edited (ex: in ConTEXT or another editor) to yield custom color definitions for the ConTEXT highlighter feature.



Once a *.chl file is copied/renamed/customized and placed into the C:\Program Files\ConTEXT\Highlighters\ sub-folder, ConTEXT auto-toggle of color highlight mode by file extension opened can be configured via:

ConTEXT Menu > Tools > Set Highlighter > Customize Types > SCASM




BTW: Browsing objects MCX which successfully renders in 3D Preview with the forward/back arrows should reveal scenery objects defined within the SCASM file.

NOTE: The MCX reported/rendered objects appear in the top-to-bottom order in which they are listed in the SCASM code as viewed in a text editor (ex: ConTEXT").


Perhaps this may assist in locating specific objects in question.

One can load and display the MCX exported objects (from MDLs or MDLs packaged into FS scenery object library BGLs) if they are "placed" via XML code compiled via BGLComp into placement BGLs, assuming both the source MDLs/library BGLs and placement BGLs are all in "active" \Scenery sub-folders in the FS Scenery Library stack of Area layers

Be aware that if the original source SCASM BGLs containing the objects are also loading because they are still in "active" \Scenery sub-folders in the FS Scenery Library stack of Area layers, one may have duplicate objects displayed.

IMHO, this might better be solved by using only the newly exported MDLs (placed via XML code) in the updated version of your minchumina scenery project, although one also can edit the SCASM code (ex: to remove un-wanted objects) in the minchumina.sca file, and re-compile it to a BGL via SCASM for concurrent use with ones new FS9 format BGLs.


PS: Have you yet solved the issue in your most recent post to this thread immediately above... with regard to Effects placement ?

An example placement of a FS *.FX file placement via XML is seen here; note that different FS "Effect" parameters would be used for control of seasonal smoke display, and in some cases an additional "Controller" *.FX file may be used with the "Basic" *.FX file to allow greater control of FS Effect display parameters:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=234758&postcount=46


Also, be aware that one of the 3 legacy format Nova smoke *.FX files caused problems with FS9, and use of a alternative (default or 3rd party) smoke "Effect" file is advisable.


Hope this helps !

GaryGB

 

[John Hubbard]

Thanks very much, Gary, for all this information. I am more of a literary boffin than a computer science whizz so I tend to take the easy way out whenever possible

First, my plan to move several objects (Don Elliott's cabins and docks) in my UT Canada/Alaska scenery did not go well. I was able to move the cabin on to dry land only to find that it was a duplicate, the smoke had gone, and there were missing textures. At that point, I took a longer look at Don Elliott's airport and noticed that his float plane dock was on dry-ish land. Further investigations elsewhere in AK showed that there were similar problems with addon sceneries near shorelines and coastlines.

I then took the easy way out. I uninstalled UT Canada/Alaska and decided to work with default and FSG terrain. Instead of moving the objects, I moved the shorelines using SBuilder This allowed me to get water into one of the float plane docks at PAMH and all my cabins went back to being on dry land. I could not manage to get water around the second dock at the airfield without putting other buildings into the water. I am sure an expert could do better.

Here are some links showing the sceneries before and after my changes. Taking out UT Canada/Alaska also fixed some of the other places where there were incompatibilities.

Don's original dock at PAMH

Don's cabinandock

Modified dock at PAMH

Modified cabinandock

simple SBuilder mods showing new VTP line and polygons

Since then, in a separate project, I have used MCX to create .mdl files of objects and placed these directly into FS9 using ADE9X. I tried Obj Placer too but found it a bit fiddly and again I lost textures. With ADE9X it all worked flawlessly although the object for placement does not retain its geometrics and appears simply as a box with a true heading.

I will investigate ConTEXT although I suspect too much of it might short-circuit my ancient neurones

Many thanks again, Gary, for your interest and advice.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi John:

Looks like you're off to a good start with the learning process !

What matters most to many of us is taking time to have fun learning FS scenery modding / building, and enjoying flying around inspecting one's handiwork.


FYI: FS scenery prior to FSX was often low resolution and out of alignment with the real world by as much as 1/2 Kilometer in any direction.


UT AK/Canada and other products in that series uses real world positioning as data sources for tracing / placing vector data and/or land class data etc.

Most early add-ons for FS9 and nearly all pre-FS9 add-ons were based on the unrealistic world model which FS had prior to FSX, so one might find many add-ons may not "fit" properly when ex: UT AK/Canada (and/or 3rd party add-on terrain mesh) is loaded and active as a base for ones FS terrain scenery.

Some folks may opt to disable UT if they have an abundance of 3rd party add-on sceneries they use regularly and they don't want to "fix" them all to align with the more realistic world model positioning provided by UT.

IMHO, the FS experience is first and foremost about exercising one's own preferences, and having a good time flying and/or tinkering with one's scenery.



For future reference in the event your interest may progress to further detailed work on your Lake Minchumna project:


* ADE, SBuilder and other FS scenery object placer utilities allow dragging and dropping XML-placed MDL objects in a top-down 2D mode.


* Abacus EZ-Scenery / Flight1 Instant Scenery works inside FS9 in the rendered 3D world to enable precise XML object placement with live interactive real time object display.


* One could also edit the placement coordinates for objects inside the SCASM code of the *.SCA file (by changing "RefPoint(" parameters) and re-compiling to BGL via SCASM

http://www.scasm.de/doc/sca_cmd1.htm#refp


* SBuilder allows adding a MAP or aerial imagery as a geo-rectified background image to use for tracing vector content


* A birds-eye-view near the PAMH airport I found on a NOAA site:

http://water.weather.gov/images/photos/approved/lmha2/lmh over.JPG


* A few other images from Google Earth / Google Maps:

http://maps.google.com/maps?cid=3826371916250163889

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&s...esult&ct=title&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CEAQ8gEwAQ


* Wiki on ICAO - PAMH (with links to airport diagrams etc.):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minchumina_Airport


Hope this extra info might prove helpful; best wishes with your project !

GaryGB

 

[John Hubbard]

Thanks again.

I did quite a bit of scenery work years ago in FS2002 using Airport for Windows and EOD. I used SBuilder too and AFCAD of course! The .api file was my friend and when FS2004 and Gmax came along I mostly gave up scenery design. I tried using SceneGenX but found it very buggy and soon gave up.

As you noted in your first post, I like to use GoogleEarth as my background map in SBuilder. Unfortunately, the GoogleEarth images for Lake Minchumina lack detail. I agree that there is enough to make more 'improvements' but experience has taught me to keep my changes to a minimum. When I get too ambitious and meddle too deeply in things I do not fully understand, I invariably start getting CTDs. Then, more often than not, I am faced with a fresh install. I avoid landclass files *like the plague* for the same reason.

My other current project is to upgrade Chignik Fisheries (KCG) - one of Frank Betts's FS2002 sceneries. One or two of the old fisheries buildings have been moved and some basic facilities have already been installed on the airfield. Another smoky old cabin is under construction All this using MCX and ADE9X. I plan then to set up a small AI virtual airline linking the various airfields in the Chignik Bay area with King Salmon - competition for PenAir

Thanks again, Gary, for the links and all best with your projects too.