I'm still working on zipping those files, my 'zipper' just doesn't seem to be working right or I'm doing it wrong. The good news is, MS released an update today to the File Handler in win11, it seems to have fixed my file saving problem. Files update now when you save and replace. It's about time. I am using the P3D SDK, the FSX SDK just seems to have some 'bugs' in it. I really want to get those files to you so if you can figure out why I can get the LC to show through the PR but they aren't in 3D, they are just flat textures. If I can get them to become 3D like they are supposed to be, it will eliminate the Annotator problem because there will be no need for it. I've gotten down how to make PR scenery pretty good, but getting LC to come through the PR in 3D still eludes me. As soon as I can get those files to zip, I'll get them to you. It may turn out I will have to zip each BMP in a separate zip file to get it to work then just zip everything else in another zip file. Now since then I have added several more PRs, so I will only zip the one that I am working with for now, once I get it figured out, I can apply that to the other ones with no problem, to zip all 7 of them, would be rediculously time consuming. I see no need since I am only working on one. I can tell you which one. I'll take a screen shot and circle the area I am working on.
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Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:
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FSX Making a landable mountain using ADE for FSX
- Thread starter Tomt478
- Start date
Agron Images
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Alien
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KWR1_ADEX_TT_ALT_OBJ
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Scenery
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The screenshot with the area I am working on is included in the KWR1 zip file. I only included those files pertaining to the area I am working on 'Agron'
I also included the INF files in the Agron Images zip. The Agron.INF is the file used to add the BlendMask, The Photo6 file is the original Sbuilder file with the coordinates in it.
If you need the original map file, I will upload that zip once you download these as there is not enough space to upload the file. Those BMP files are over 300,000KB in size which is why I had to split everything into different zips, I just could not make the zip or even the 7zip file small enough to hold all of the files, it just won't compress all of the files down enough to upload. It took some time, but at least I got them for you. Like I said, if you need to original L******.bmp map file, let m,e know and I can send you that zip once I remove the Agron Images file to make space for it.
Oh, there are some 'road' vector lines going up to Agron in Sbuilder, those roads are no longer there. I removed them from the KWR1 project. I couldn't get the lines to delete for some reason. Those roads won't be used until I figure out how to slope the roads. The alt of Agron is higher than the ARP by about 100ft. It's at 5100+ ft according to Google Earth. This area has lots of hills. Oh and the roads I think still show up when you fly over the area, still trying to get rid of the darn things. They may or may not show up on your end, I think it's a leftover file from that File Manager problem that I just need to find and delete to get rid of those roads. I did remove all but 2 flattens, that one has to be there or my 'huts' show up buried inside the mountains around them. I had to flatten the area because it's a village that is actually lower than the ARP by around 100ft. There is also another flatten in an area way down to the south that also has to be there because it too is below the ARP. Funny, I can get roads to slope down with no problem, but up, just can't get that to work. Weird.
Hi Tom:
I have downloaded the linked files in this post:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...mountain-using-ade-for-fsx.459364/post-932133
...so, feel free to clear those files from MediaFire, if needed.
I am reviewing all the linked files, and shall reply later in the morning (Thursday).
GaryGB
I have downloaded the linked files in this post:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...mountain-using-ade-for-fsx.459364/post-932133
...so, feel free to clear those files from MediaFire, if needed.
I am reviewing all the linked files, and shall reply later in the morning (Thursday).
GaryGB
I'm starting to wonder if my GPU is what's causing some of my issues. It may not be able to display the 3D mesh with the PR because it isn't capable of doing so. It is an old NVIDIA GTX 960 which is at the far end of the compatability scale. I just may not be able to do what I want to do with this GPU. I tried the changes you have in the FX.CFG ,but I am not able to run my scenery sliders that high, I have to use a balance of my sliders. Here is what I can use as my MAX settings with my current setup:
LOD Radius =Medium Mesh Complexity=30 Mesh Resolution=76 m Texture Resolution=60 cm(this just does work) Water Effects=Low 2.x
Scenery Complexity and Autogen Density both at DENSE (Won't work any higher) and Special Effects Detail=Medium
These are the ABSOLUTE MAX settings I can use on my system. Anything higher on either of these settings causes SEVERE stutters and really annoying screen flashes. I have worked with these settings for hours trying to get a decent balance, and these settings are the BEST I can get. Like I said, I just may not be able to do what I want using my current system setup. I may have to wait until I can upgrade my GPU and my system memory. Right now my system memory is only 12GB, it is supposed to be 16GB but one of my RAM sticks failed and I have to get a new one of those as well. My GPU only has 2GB of VRAM so I need to upgrade that to one with at least 6GB. I just don't think the 960 is up to the task. But hey, it was a little better than the old AMD 6800 I had in there, that thing just couldn't even handle FSX at all.
LOD Radius =Medium Mesh Complexity=30 Mesh Resolution=76 m Texture Resolution=60 cm(this just does work) Water Effects=Low 2.x
Scenery Complexity and Autogen Density both at DENSE (Won't work any higher) and Special Effects Detail=Medium
These are the ABSOLUTE MAX settings I can use on my system. Anything higher on either of these settings causes SEVERE stutters and really annoying screen flashes. I have worked with these settings for hours trying to get a decent balance, and these settings are the BEST I can get. Like I said, I just may not be able to do what I want using my current system setup. I may have to wait until I can upgrade my GPU and my system memory. Right now my system memory is only 12GB, it is supposed to be 16GB but one of my RAM sticks failed and I have to get a new one of those as well. My GPU only has 2GB of VRAM so I need to upgrade that to one with at least 6GB. I just don't think the 960 is up to the task. But hey, it was a little better than the old AMD 6800 I had in there, that thing just couldn't even handle FSX at all.
Your newest test area "Agron" PR LC BGL is max LOD-15, which only requires texture resolution of FSX' default at 1.2 M/pixel.
That can use the 1 Meter Texture Resolution setting on your FSX GUI slider.
Your prior requested texture load on the GPU VRAM is likely the limiting factor, rather than the detailed terrain mesh I had linked you to.
The Terrain Mesh setting in FSX.Cfg "allows" vertices to be displayed, but AFAIK, does not impose a TMF Quad Grid load on system RAM.
Here is how it looks on my FSX installation (notice the Autogen being displayed in the NE corner):
PS: Considering the Autogen being displayed in the NE corner, you should be certain to remove old BGLs from \Addon Scenery\Scenery.
GaryGB
That can use the 1 Meter Texture Resolution setting on your FSX GUI slider.
Your prior requested texture load on the GPU VRAM is likely the limiting factor, rather than the detailed terrain mesh I had linked you to.
The Terrain Mesh setting in FSX.Cfg "allows" vertices to be displayed, but AFAIK, does not impose a TMF Quad Grid load on system RAM.
Here is how it looks on my FSX installation (notice the Autogen being displayed in the NE corner):
PS: Considering the Autogen being displayed in the NE corner, you should be certain to remove old BGLs from \Addon Scenery\Scenery.
GaryGB
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Mine doesn't look anything like that, mine is just all 'flat' texture, no 3D mesh at all. What are your sliders set at? what would be the MIN settings I can use with my current build of the area?
There are no remnant BGLs in my default ..addon/scenery folder, all that is in there right now are my ADE files and some other Object BGLs that I haven't gotten around to moving to their own folder yet now that I was able to fix the add area on my scenery library. I plan on emptying out that default folder and leave only the ADE files there. Everything else is in their own folders such as all the new areas, every area has its own folder to keep it easier to locate and edit. Why does your water look so much more like water than mine. Mine doesn't have that reflectiveness. I really do think now it has to be the limits of my GPU. Yours looks so much more realistic than mine. Does that image show the PR LC? It looks so much like the original texture, it's hard to tell if the PR is there or not. I have to re-do that map because the color isn't quite like I want it, The area next to Agron is the color I was shooting for, didn't quite get it dark enough. But before I do that, I need to know how you got the 3D mesh to show through the PR.
There are no remnant BGLs in my default ..addon/scenery folder, all that is in there right now are my ADE files and some other Object BGLs that I haven't gotten around to moving to their own folder yet now that I was able to fix the add area on my scenery library. I plan on emptying out that default folder and leave only the ADE files there. Everything else is in their own folders such as all the new areas, every area has its own folder to keep it easier to locate and edit. Why does your water look so much more like water than mine. Mine doesn't have that reflectiveness. I really do think now it has to be the limits of my GPU. Yours looks so much more realistic than mine. Does that image show the PR LC? It looks so much like the original texture, it's hard to tell if the PR is there or not. I have to re-do that map because the color isn't quite like I want it, The area next to Agron is the color I was shooting for, didn't quite get it dark enough. But before I do that, I need to know how you got the 3D mesh to show through the PR.
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I'll need to double check a few things, but IIRC, I purposely disabled the ARP, meaning after ADE compiled the CVX Vector BGL, I used CvxExtractor to output ESRI *.SHP files for that BGL.
Each *.SHP type (FLX, HL, HP, PK, RD) was Appended to SBuilderX, and then compiled by SBuilderX to a totally separate BGL.
Next, each such CVX Vector BGL was copied to a \Scenery sub-folder in a nested folder chain.
Finally, each such nested folder chain was added as a new Area to Scenery Library.
Then I deleted the ADE Airport BGL and _Alt BGLs, as they insidiously force Taxiway Paths, Aprons etc, and some CVX vectors to ARP Alt.
That was all to allow detailed tests of whether the FS infrastructure for accommodating AI Traffic on flat / level airports was able to be defeated by extraordinary measures (it was).
In the mean time, just use a saved Flight, or load up at 74v Roosevelt Muni during development.
More later...
GaryGB
Each *.SHP type (FLX, HL, HP, PK, RD) was Appended to SBuilderX, and then compiled by SBuilderX to a totally separate BGL.
Next, each such CVX Vector BGL was copied to a \Scenery sub-folder in a nested folder chain.
Finally, each such nested folder chain was added as a new Area to Scenery Library.
Then I deleted the ADE Airport BGL and _Alt BGLs, as they insidiously force Taxiway Paths, Aprons etc, and some CVX vectors to ARP Alt.
That was all to allow detailed tests of whether the FS infrastructure for accommodating AI Traffic on flat / level airports was able to be defeated by extraordinary measures (it was).
In the mean time, just use a saved Flight, or load up at 74v Roosevelt Muni during development.
More later...
GaryGB
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Ok, don't understand any of that one. Where is this 'CvxExtractor'? I've seen it mentioned before, but I don't know where it is. I just need to know how to get the 3D mesh to come through. If I can do that, I'm good. That will get me going from where I am right now. I am not able to figure out how to get that to work. That right now is the most important task. I want to get 3D mesh to show through the PR LC as 3D not just flat texture. That is all I need to do. I do that, and I am fine from there. I'm not concerned about all this other stuff, I just want the 3D mesh to show instead of just flat texture. If I wanted to do that, I wouldn't even bother with adding LC, I'd just leave the PR LC as is and let it go at that. My original task was to replace the default land texture (ONLY THE TEXTURE) with a more 'alien-like' texture while keeping all of my ADE land classes. I didn't realize I would need a degree in graphic design to accomplish such a simple task. But as it is turning out, nothing with FSX is simple. It really would be good to have a 'degree' in graphic design to do this simple thing. Oh well, that's how it goes I guess. Please just tell me how I go about getting the ADE LC to appear over the PR LC, that is all I need to know right now, all the other things can come later.
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As I cited and linked for you previously:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...mountain-using-ade-for-fsx.459364/post-930959
"CVX vector *.SHP files can be appended to SBuilderX after extracted with Patrick Germain's CvxExtractor from CVX vector BGLs:"
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/cvxextractor-exporting-vector-data.432918/
NOTE: Also as mentioned previously, the ADE " *_ALT.BGL " ...is automatically written via ADE ...to:
[FSX_Install_Path]\Scenery\World\Scenery ...sub-folder.
Sorting out any remaining CVX vectors assigned to ARP Altitude (even though the ARP is deleted now), will take some extra time.
If we are lucky (considering the state of affairs with your computers FSX installation / configuration), we can ID a packaged solution.
If we are not lucky, we may have to go hunting for residual files on your system that interfere with the rendering that I achieved here.
I shall take another look at this starting tomorrow (Friday) to see what is required to restore all CVX vectors (including custom polys, lines, PR) to a terrain-mesh-clinging state, after having defeated the ARP and _ALT "Evil Infrastructure" ...that disregards one's terrain mesh Alt. / shape.
GaryGB
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They will also be "locked" when FSX is running, so if you compiled concurrent with FSX running, 'loaded' BGLs will not update.
Windows does not always throw a status or error message to the top of the current task session if under a major (FSX) processing burden.
Glad your Windows File Manager / Explorer issue has been issued a "fix" by MS.
GaryGB
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Just to let you know, while you have been gone, I've tried several ways to get 3D terrain mesh to show on top of my PR and have had success. I tried what you did, but that does not allow me to include the PR which defeats the whole purpose. If I didn't want to use the PR then I could just place my LC via ADE, but that is not what I want. I'm going to try and explain EXACTLY what I want to do if possible.
Ok, I created my PR Scenery, now as everyone knows, PR Scenery is just that SCENERY. It covers the default AutoGen terrain with your own Scenery, none of this is 3D it's just flat detailed texture. That takes care of my first step, covering the ground with my own texture, great, that is now easy to do. Now, here is the problem. Because PR Scenery covers your Autogen with 'flat' texture scenery, you get NO AUTOGEN 3d objects, it's all just texture. You cannot place ADE Land Classes over the area where you have any PR Scenery because it will NOT display. Now, some instructions suggest using a BlendMask, ok, that does only one thing, it allows your default TEXTURE (not AutoGen) to blend through your PR. I don't want that, no, I want to be able to place various ADE LC on top of my newly create PR Scenery (Texture) and have it show as it would as if there was no PR in place, in other words in 3D. Now another suggestion was to use the AutoGen Annotator to place my LC, Ok, did that, but......(yes that nasty word again), the Annotator only allows placement of VEGETATION for LCs, it does not add in any buildings or other objects, in other words, if you use a LC such as 'cool crops and town', you will only get the trees and other vegetation, NO BUILDINGS!
That is my dilema in a nut-shell. I am unable to get any NORMAL ADE LC to show on top of (not through) my PR Scenery. All I can get is either flat texture of the land, or using the Annotator, I can at least get forests and things, but nothing with any buildings. So, I'm left with just placing my vegetation with the Annotator, then by flying over the area in FSX, mark any 'Empty' spots in ADE and just place my OWN objects and buildings to build my own town. This appears to be the one major drawback of using PR Scenery. I have yet to find ANYWHERE on the web, that ANYONE has ever accomplished getting ADE AutoGen LC to actually display over PR Scenery, that is something you have to sacrifice if using PR Scenery. I've tried now for weeks to get it to work, I've tried every suggestion on here and everywhere else, it simply just won't work. It's just the way FSX displays PR Scenery. It always takes precidence over everything else. I have not discovered any way to change this fact. I think I will just use my second option of just placing objects and buildings in specific areas of the LC.
Ok, I created my PR Scenery, now as everyone knows, PR Scenery is just that SCENERY. It covers the default AutoGen terrain with your own Scenery, none of this is 3D it's just flat detailed texture. That takes care of my first step, covering the ground with my own texture, great, that is now easy to do. Now, here is the problem. Because PR Scenery covers your Autogen with 'flat' texture scenery, you get NO AUTOGEN 3d objects, it's all just texture. You cannot place ADE Land Classes over the area where you have any PR Scenery because it will NOT display. Now, some instructions suggest using a BlendMask, ok, that does only one thing, it allows your default TEXTURE (not AutoGen) to blend through your PR. I don't want that, no, I want to be able to place various ADE LC on top of my newly create PR Scenery (Texture) and have it show as it would as if there was no PR in place, in other words in 3D. Now another suggestion was to use the AutoGen Annotator to place my LC, Ok, did that, but......(yes that nasty word again), the Annotator only allows placement of VEGETATION for LCs, it does not add in any buildings or other objects, in other words, if you use a LC such as 'cool crops and town', you will only get the trees and other vegetation, NO BUILDINGS!
That is my dilema in a nut-shell. I am unable to get any NORMAL ADE LC to show on top of (not through) my PR Scenery. All I can get is either flat texture of the land, or using the Annotator, I can at least get forests and things, but nothing with any buildings. So, I'm left with just placing my vegetation with the Annotator, then by flying over the area in FSX, mark any 'Empty' spots in ADE and just place my OWN objects and buildings to build my own town. This appears to be the one major drawback of using PR Scenery. I have yet to find ANYWHERE on the web, that ANYONE has ever accomplished getting ADE AutoGen LC to actually display over PR Scenery, that is something you have to sacrifice if using PR Scenery. I've tried now for weeks to get it to work, I've tried every suggestion on here and everywhere else, it simply just won't work. It's just the way FSX displays PR Scenery. It always takes precidence over everything else. I have not discovered any way to change this fact. I think I will just use my second option of just placing objects and buildings in specific areas of the LC.
Your conclusions are correct, and confirm what I previously stated regarding what FS2Kx docs and FSDEV forum participants have stated.
By design, ACES 'intended' only visible airport infrastructure objects compiled by BGLComp to display on top of PR or default LC.
But with special grayscale values used in Blendmasks, one "may" be able to get Autogen Annotation to be displayed on top of PR LC.
There is a way to get "G-Poly" objects to display on top of airport infrastructure objects and both default and custom PR LC in FSX.
AFAIK, legacy FS-8 (aka "FS2002"-era) method is still supported through current versions of P3D, and have minimal display anomalies.
The FSX MDL type was modified by ACES as a test of functionality, but disabled use of VTP layering, so anomalies are seen in top-down.
As you discovered, there are complexities involved in using G-Polys, which both ADE-GP and MCX G-Poly Wizard attempt to minimize.
BTW: As we proceed to explore alternate workflows to achieve your current reported goals, we must agree on some scenery terminology.
It is best to reserve use of "Flat" to entirely flat surfaces where terrain mesh has been forced into that shape by CVX vector AB FLX polys.
Although most airports are made 'flat' / "level" to accommodate AI Traffic, you do not use that at this time (me neither ..for decades).
This must be distinguished from a scenery actually not being 'flat' per se, but it does not have Autogen displayed on it at run time.
CVX Vector AB Polygons assume no Autogen use on airfields, so AFAIK, all such types used via MaskClassMap will not have Autogen.
See: LFT XLS spreadsheet attachment in: 'Making Scenery With SBuilder' tutorial; it lists MaskClassMap textures (all are CVX vector types).
IMHO, we should not use AB polygons unless we want to exclude Autogen; all other polygons should be specific types from Terrain.Cfg.
I mentioned that the SDK and FSDEV "official' process to display Autogen on custom PR LC at run time is to:
* Use a properly coded Blendmask (this creates a 'digital hole' in the top PR layer) that allows underlying layers to be displayed on top.
...or:
* Use Autogen Annotator (this creates *an.AGN files for PR LC tiles, with correct internal complex coding as to world region, season etc.)
I also mentioned attempting to get Autogen from underlying default or custom scenery to show through on top of PR is unpredictable.
IIUC, no one in the FS Community has an answer as to when / where / why Autogen does 'sometimes' show through on top of PR.
Thus, I recommend not attempting to find out how to force underlying default or custom scenery to show through on top of PR.
I am also not aware of a way to copy Autogen Annotation from default LC tiles, custom CVX Vector LC Polygons, or custom PR LC tiles.
They all use *an.AGN files, but internally there is complex coding as to world region, season etc, that are so involved, few attempt copies.
We are left then, with the challenge of creating custom Autogen Annotation for custom PR LC tiles.
Autogen Annotation for custom PR LC tiles is universally regarded as the worst aspect of FS2Kx scenery creation.
Arno's ScenProc can process aerial imagery and semi-automatically generate rather Autogen accurate to IRL, with default objects.
IMHO, ScenProc has a steep learning curve due to a proprietary scripting user interface.
But, ScenProc has the best available aerial imagery processing engine available for FS2Kx scenery; I hope Arno eventually adapts it for use in MSFS, so that we will have an alternative for the scenery areas in MSFS that Asobo has not yet detailed sufficiently close to IRL.
Alternatively, there are a few obscure Autogen utilities for FS-9 that have a method to port initial work products to FSX and P3D.
These may have their own learning curves and a need to have some in-depth knowledge of both FS-9 and FSX SDK.
You may find that in the amount of time expended climbing their learning curves, it would be quicker to do custom Autogen Annotation.
A discussion of such FS utilities for semi-automatic Autogen creation via a hybrid method involving FS-9 and FSX SDKs is here:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/autogen-trees-help.43153/post-190405
As stated previously, I do not recommend attempting to use BGLComp to place any 'significantly' large amount of scenery objects.
If you do attempt that, you will incur substantial performance issues at run time on your particular computer configuration.
Frankly, your very large extent of visible airport infrastructure objects compiled by BGLComp over nearly 60 miles is already problematic.
Otherwise, try using "Forest" to process aerial imagery to achieve BGLComp scenery library object placement more accurate to IRL:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/forest-fsx-p3d-tree-placement-tool.148/
But rather than have you become even more frustrated, I recommend further study of how to create proper Blendmask source files.
If you have not discerned yet via features built into PhotoShop or other graphics utilities, your linked Blendmask source file was RGB.
The LFT tutorial was written at a time of transition in the evolution of FSX SDK and SBuilderX, when BMPs showed some limitations.
At that time, the decision was made by ACES and LFT, to begin recommending TIFFs for both Blendmasks and Land-Water Masks.
However, in both such cases, the Channel or stand-alone file type for on/off and gradient masking must be 8-Bit grayscale ...not RGB.
If you downloaded the updated version of your Blendmask source file in my ZIP I linked you to on March 13, 2025, within:
Agron_Scenery_03-13-2025\Scenery
...you will find a replacement BGL compiled using the TIFF 8-Bit Blendmask with the same grayscale value you had attempted via RGB.
You can also load the updated TIFF 8-Bit version of your Blendmask source file in PhotoShop to see how it is interpreted / referenced.
You must make proper TIFFs before going further down the "Road" with not being able to display underlying default or custom scenery.
Stop and think about it:
Terrain textures (whether default / custom) use masks to display underlying default WC colors / _Hydro attributes.
Custom PR LC 'fades' (Blends !) shorelines into the underlying default WC color and associated _Hydro water attributes with waves, splashing Effects etc. because of successful implementation of both Blend Masks and Land-Water Masks, so they do work in FS2Kx.
If that were not working, we would not be able to see any such default or custom "underlying" scenery content.
So, IMHO, it will be best to master the creation of Masks first, before considering other alternatives to the custom PR LC workflow.
That is especially true if you intend to implement custom "alien" landscapes and textures for terrain.
Done properly, you may even be able to utilize underlying Autogen.
GaryGB
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I had a problem with my Photoshop creating Graycale images, it kept giving me a write error for some reason. I fixed it, (have no idea how, it just started working again). I'm going to start experimenting with that for now. I am not sure how much success I will have, I think a lot of my limitations are GPU exclusive. I've gone through and set all of my NVIDIA settings to recomended settings, It wound up creating other unforseen problems so I set everything back to default.
I do not know which numeric version of PhotoShop you have.
IIRC, it had the 3D features (which have since been moved to a parallel product line under Adobe).
It is important to know which specific numeric version you use, and if it is 'Extended'.
That knowledge is required to pick the correct workflow in PhotoShop to output BMP and TIFF files fully compatible with FS2Kx SDK.
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/3d-faq.html
See:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Pho...ARABGAiSBwUyNy4xMaAH0ogC&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
GaryGB
I have phtoshopCS6. I had to re-install it, there was some corruption in the program, it produces TIFF grayscale images, but I've tried every possible way to make the blendmask, I have gone from pure white to pure black, and even pure black does not produce the results I am looking for. I just can't seem to get the 3D terrain to show up, it's all nothing but ordinary texture, it has better resolution than default texture, but still it's nothing but texture with no autogen 3D terrain. I'm using a TIF (gray/8) image for the blendmask, but no matter what I do with it, I get the same results. I'm going to try making the blendmask with GIMP and see if it's something to do with the way photoshop is saving files, maybe it's removing some important information during saving.