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MAYA - Converting - 3DsMax - Testing

D

Dusty.M.J

Messages
36
I am posting this for a friend of mine who has the desire to try modeling for use in the flight simulator. Anything you can do to help is greatly appreciated.
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Modeling Software - MAYA

Hello everyone.

I come here seeking knowledge of those who've been down the road designing models using MAYA and making the necessary conversions to get it where it needs [converted] to be for use in FS2004. I've never tried this before, and it's a new venture for me. What I'm going to attempt is to model a wing and do the needed files conversions along the way to get it to where Gmax & FSDS can see it.

Forgive me if I sound a bit mixed up in my explanation.

Question:

I see the poly count is 75,000 for FS2004. Do you know if these are Quads or Triangle polys. The reason I ask is some programs traingulate polys .. this means for every quad (four sided poly) it is split to form a triangle which means your poly count doubles. That is an important thing to know.

What I am going to do is model a wing ... pull it over to blender and see what happens.

I will try the CVA Convertor to make a OBJ file from Maya to a FSC file and post it. I need to find someone to import it into whatever rigging [Gmax,FSDS] texturing program that will work with FS then we will know for sure if the process will work.
 
For FS9...

can Maya export to a direct X file? (*.x), if so, you should be able to use makemdl.exe directly.

Alternatively, if Maya can export to a 3ds format, then you can import directly into gmax (and max).

You can also export as a dxf file to import into gmax or to use the CVA converter.
 
FelixFFDS said:
For FS9...

can Maya export to a direct X file? (*.x), if so, you should be able to use makemdl.exe directly.

Alternatively, if Maya can export to a 3ds format, then you can import directly into gmax (and max).

You can also export as a dxf file to import into gmax or to use the CVA converter.
Click to expand...


Hmmm...good question. Personally. I don't know anything about modeling. Which makes it hard for "him" and "me". I'll relay this back to my friend. I've a feeling this is going to be a long process going about it this way.

Thank You for the help

Dusty
 
The manner of how he/I am going about finding out information is NOT easy by any means.

A favor of everyone if I may ask.

Considering MAYA is the software he is using, can someone explain the breakdown of file formats it needs to be saved in / imported to, through the various modeling programs to get it to either Gmax or FSDS so that it's usable in FS2004 at the end?

Knowing this will help out a whole bunch.

Thanks a bunch

Dusty
 
Without using a specific format converter:
gmax imports *.3DS and *.dxf files directly.

Using the FS2004 SDK (makemdl.exe) you can use a directX (*.x) file directly (no other program necessary).

Using the CVA Converter, you can import an *.obj or *.dxf file into FSDS as an *.fsc file.
 
FelixFFDS said:
Without using a specific format converter:
gmax imports *.3DS and *.dxf files directly.

Using the FS2004 SDK (makemdl.exe) you can use a directX (*.x) file directly (no other program necessary).

Using the CVA Converter, you can import an *.obj or *.dxf file into FSDS as an *.fsc file.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Felix. If I may.

I will relay this info to to him. What I thought was going to happen was to bring a great modeler to the flight simulator scene. IF he could master this hurdle of compatibilities, he do great. Right now, I'm not sure where this will go, or if he'll continue to get over this hurdle. I just wish he'd come here and speak with you directly.

Thank You

Dusty
 
Resolving this issue.....HELP

Dusty,

After last nights conversation on TS I redone the model. Made the wings shorter as requested, re-modeled the vertical stabilizer and cut out the rudder.

I thought then I am going through all the conversion techniques and get it into FSDS. Man oh Man ... this is not going to work well at all. so let me take you through the sequence and issues.

As I stated I remodeled what I had so far. All poly normals are facing outward in Maya. To explain what that is: normals are the way surfaces, and polys face .. anotherwords if I was going to apply a texture, which side of the surface is the texture seen; inside or outside. Also if plays a HUGE role on how a model is textured. You can, but NOT advised, have surfaces facing different directions. Basically the normal of a surface is 90° to how the surface is facing.

So here is a Maya quick render of the remodelled poly's: You can see all surfaces (no blanked surfaces or holes)

chipmunk4mayacx7.jpg



As you can see the surfaces have facets and each facet is a poly.

Then I exported out of Maya as an OBJ file to take into Rhino3D. Here is the import into Rhino3D: Again no holes or blanked surfaces.


On this picture you actually see the UV lines that border every polygon.

chipmunk4rhinonr9.jpg


Then I exported out of Rhino3D as an old LWO file (Lightwave) so I could bring it into FSDS. This is where the issues occur. All surface normals are correct in Maya and Rhino3D .. when I imported into FSDS half of the surface normals were facing the wrong way. There are 142 polys in this model and it took me over an hour to find a way to reverse the wrong normals to facing the correct direction. I know I had to find how FSDS works and then follow the process and that was 1/2 the time involved .. but this is ONLY 142 polys .. I am not going to do this for thousands of polys Dusty. I don't have the time. This is far more involved than just modelling and apparently FSDS doesn't follow any industry standards, It's Microsoft so what do you expect .. lol and you haven't even started texturing yet so I have no idea what issues are going to arise there. Also the model isn't smoothed (still poly facets) and how is FSDS going to handle that? I don't know, that will make or break the look of the Chipmunk. Now I can see why the developers forum is so backlogged .. WoW!

I went ahead and fixed all the normals in FSDS and have attached the FSC model to this post. You can download it and take a look and see that you can see all surfaces as you rotate it .. then you know the surfaces normals are correct and not facing the wrong way.

I'm sorry Dusty, but I don't have the time for all this and it is far more intensive than I ever imagined. I gave it a shot and really tried to find a way of doing this ... but Microsoft seems hell bent on making something that is compatible with nothing else on the market.
______________________________

My Comment: He's stumped on how to get beyond this. And frustrated as you can see.

Help!!

Dusty
 
FelixFFDS said:
CAn MAya export as a dxf or 3ds file?
Click to expand...

Felix, it seems you're the ONLY one here that has ANY decency to help anyone. I thank you for that sir.

In reference to your question: As Quoted by my friend.

Yes .. but DXF is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo old of a format that it lacks true 3D capabilities .. it is really meant for 2.5D. It is hard to work with as it brings in millions of lines and useless information. You can not use it other than for a template for new construction. DXF is nothing more that lines, no surfaces, no polys, no nothing.

Not sure about exporting 3DS but Maya can accept a 3DS file ... NOT .MAX which is native for 3D Studio Max. It brings it in as a mesh, not polys, and you can not manipulate the geometry, everything is one complete surface. You have to use it as a template to construct new poly's, or you can Render it. Also 3DS files will bring in any materials that were associated with the original model, if they were exported with the file. This can be a real time saver.

Rhino3D can export 3DS.

These file formats are industry standards. But as I was telling you on TS .. most all the high end systems are going FBX as it translate uniformly from system to system (although not perfect yet, but much better than all the stuff that FSDS is making people do.) The real question is: Why isn't FSDS following FBX?

An older PDF for this format can be found at http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/fbxsdkoverview.pdf
 
Dusty.M.J said:
Felix, it seems you're the ONLY one here that has ANY decency to help anyone. I thank you for that sir.
Click to expand...

It's not a question of decency, really, it's more that others may not feel confident replying on something they have little experience about. Me? I have no such inhibition on answering questions on which I KNOW I'm not familiar. THere are a few (well, a specific someone who shall remain nameless) that DELIGHT in seeing me go out on a limb on stuff like this, before taking pity and correcting me. Until then, I assume that the ice I'm skating on is thick enough....


In reference to your question: As Quoted by my friend.

Yes .. but DXF is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo old of a format that it lacks true 3D capabilities .. it is really meant for 2.5D. It is hard to work with as it brings in millions of lines and useless information. You can not use it other than for a template for new construction. DXF is nothing more that lines, no surfaces, no polys, no nothing.

Not sure about exporting 3DS but Maya can accept a 3DS file ...The real question is: Why isn't FSDS following FBX?

An older PDF for this format can be found at http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/fbxsdkoverview.pdf
Click to expand...

FSDS was originally made for flight simulator, and, from what I see, no real consideration to make it a full featured modelling program. The DXF import was added by a 3rd party (CVA). I hope that the next version of FSDS will add additional modelling features, but I'm not too sure that it will add too many format import/export capabilities. Don't take my word on it.

I still think that the best option is a Maya to direct X output. Possibly one of the format converters can help in here (Deep Exploration, etc).
 
If your friend is used to professional 3D tools, you probably want to look more in the 3D Studio Max direction than FSDS - the free (GMax) version might be enough, though it does have severe import/export limitations - but the 3ds import might be enough to get you going.

PS: I start to understand why Microsoft are so unpopular. Here they are even being blamed for the lack of "standards" support in a tool they have abselutely nothing to do with. :)
 
Dusty,why so many apps?Maya,Rhino,FSDS...
All you need is Maya(if you prefer it as a modelling tool)and GMAX(or 3DSmax)
I personaly used Maya for fs aircraft modeling,mapping and texturing and GMax for animation and export.Why Gmax and not Maya for animation?
Because...
I found good .x exporter for Maya on www.highend3d.com and planned to export model directly from Maya to FS.But.This exporter works perfect(even better and simpler than Panda)until we try to export animation.You can perfectly get still models out of Maya to FS via this exporter,but all my attempts to export model with animation failed.So I used Gmax for animation and export to FS.

As for incorrect normal when exporting...
Make sure you completely cleaned up the model in Maya before export-history deleted,freeze transformations,there is no negative scale,check normals by turning on normals diplaying-model with flipped normals can still look ok in vewport and render...
 
Dusty, see what I tell you?

THere are a few (well, a specific someone who shall remain nameless) that DELIGHT in seeing me go out on a limb on stuff like this, before taking pity and correcting me.
Click to expand...

Although Bravo wasn't the specific "someone" I was thinking about, I've just added him to me personal "peanut gallery".


Bravo - thanks for the safety net!!! :D:D



Bravo said:
Dusty,why so many apps?Maya,Rhino,FSDS...
All you need is Maya(if you prefer it as a modelling tool)and GMAX(or 3DSmax)
I personaly used Maya for fs aircraft modeling,mapping and texturing and GMax for animation and export.Why Gmax and not Maya for animation?
Because...
I found good .x exporter for Maya on www.highend3d.com and planned to export model directly from Maya to FS.But.This exporter works perfect(even better and simpler than Panda)until we try to export animation.You can perfectly get still models out of Maya to FS via this exporter,but all my attempts to export model with animation failed.So I used Gmax for animation and export to FS.

As for incorrect normal when exporting...
Make sure you completely cleaned up the model in Maya before export-history deleted,freeze transformations,there is no negative scale,check normals by turning on normals diplaying-model with flipped normals can still look ok in vewport and render...
Click to expand...
 
Bravo, Felix...

I can't thank you enough for the info. I relayed info back to my buddy and told him "HE" needs to get his arse over here and do the talking/asking of questions. So maybe he's still willing to try it.

Thanks..

Dusty
 
Dusty.M.J said:
Bravo, Felix...

I relayed info back to my buddy and told him "HE" needs to get his arse over here and do the talking/asking of questions. So maybe he's still willing to try it.

Thanks..

Dusty
Click to expand...

's about time! Tell him that his problem is he's been using some 3rd party translator for his questions!!! :)

We'll go easy on him... maybe....
 
Felix,sometimes things are simpler than you imagine:)
Actually this is my first post here and registered just a minute before posting in this thread.
 
Bravo said:
Felix,sometimes things are simpler than you imagine:)
Actually this is my first post here and registered just a minute before posting in this thread.
Click to expand...

Help comes in mysterious ways.... I take it anyway it comes!

May I welcome you to this excellent forum!
 
My buddy has registered ( yesterday ) Here's what he said.
-----------------------------------------------------------
No activation email as of yet. I used my hotmail account:
 
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