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MCX Double-sided object not exporting properly ?

G

GaryGB

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us-illinois
Hi Arno:

I have tested the 02-23-2016 and 06-09-2016 development releases of MCX, and both versions seem to be exporting a *.OBJ or *.3DS object with the double-sided attribute NOT 'intact', from the original properly imported default or custom 3D object having 2 sides of transparent texture material.

I assume that the original object is properly imported into MCX, as Material Editor > Properties Tab > Enhanced Parameters > Double sided is "TRUE" for the mapped texture material, and it displays properly in the MCX work-space OpenGL preview.


I assume that the object is NOT properly exported by MCX, as in all cases tested, Material Editor > Properties Tab > Enhanced Parameters > Double sided is "FALSE" for the mapped texture material when the MCX-exported *.OBJ or *.3DS object is re-imported into MCX.

Could you check this and advise whether MCX is functioning as intended ?


Thanks ! :)

GaryGB
 
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Hi,

The OBJ and 3DS formats don't support all the advanced material settings. So these are lost on export.
 
Hi Arno:

IIUC, the (newer) Lightwave OBJ file format is inherently capable of storing double sided polygons, and involves UV vertex point list winding reversal rather than simple Normal shader manipulation.

http://paulbourke.net/dataformats/lightwave/


Is double sided polygon information stored in the various MSFS .X files that MCX exports, so that a 3rd party utility can read it ? :scratchch

[EDITED]

Thanks in advance for any ideas as to how MCX may (re-)convert / export our MSFS 3D models of double-sided objects intact through at least "1" type of MCX 3D model data export file format that can be (re-)imported into Sketchup, so such objects may be worked with again in Sketchup on the rare occasion when a Sketchup exported source file for MCX has been lost. :)

[END_EDIT]

BTW: I found this treatise on the history, pros, and cons of the DirectX .X-file format rather fascinating:

http://www.okino.com/conv/exp_xof.htm

GaryGB
 
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It seems logical to assume that on the expectedly rare occasions one would need to perform this procedure, one could instead work within the SketchUp interface with it's rich variety of extensions and plug-in's, one or two of which I can think of would likely serve to address the issue. Since it is in this example your own work, you have the same skill to apply the same texture that is included with the model. The tools to "group by material" and "identify polygons by material attributes" and others will allow you to easily isolate the polygons that would need restorative editing.
 
Certainly Sketchup plugin Ruby scripts that transfer a copy of a unique texture material from the "front" face onto the "reverse face" may be used when that face is intended to be ex: a non-manifold, crossed-plane vegetation object with a 'mirrored' texture image orientation on each side.

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=59959

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13083

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=14684

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=18992#p15575



However, when a manifold / solid-modeled, double sided object made in Sketchup, and processed by MCX for use in MSFS has unique textures and orientation on the front and reverse of each face (even when properly UV-mapped with any distortions graphically baked into a flat image via yet another Sketchup plugin Ruby script), it would be helpful for MCX to be able to (re-)export the MSFS MDL as a "fully intact" ex: *.OBJ or *.DAE file that can be (re-)imported into Sketchup. :pushpin:


IIUC, MCX may do this with further implementation of features implicit in the "Light Wave Object" (aka "LWO" / "LWOB" / "LWO2") file specifications. :scratchch

[EDITED]

Hopefully Arno may be able to do this, making MCX more full-featured (and, additionally, compatible as well with newer 'LWO' file specifications). :wizard:

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB
 
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( Gary, you are pretty proficient in SU. You do not mind if I ask you in a new thread something that only indirectly touches te subject of this one, namely how to keep the texture settings when converting an mdl/fsc to a 3ds for use in SU?)
Sorry for interrupting.
 
GaryGB said:
However, when a manifold / solid-modeled, double sided object made in Sketchup and processed by MCX for use in MSFS has unique textures and orientation on the front and reverse of each face (even when properly UV-mapped with any distortions graphically baked into a flat image via yet another Sketchup plugin Ruby script), it would be helpful for MCX to be able to (re-)export the MSFS MDL as a "fully intact" ex: OBJ file that can be (re-)imported into Sketchup. :pushpin:
Click to expand...
What would be most helpful, in this particular instance, is for the author to keep the original source files. He or she already uniquely textured these polygons anyway, why not do it again? This bears mentioning, because in the absence of that, Arno is being asked to code MCX specifically to address this situation. Granted this loss may occur any number of ways, ultimately it is a personal loss and not a direct "model conversion," per se. It seems appropriately respectful to allow Arno to establish priorities for completion of his ever growing wish list for a free software tool, a request for which was clearly made in post #3.
 
robystar said:
( Gary, you are pretty proficient in SU. You do not mind if I ask you in a new thread something that only indirectly touches te subject of this one, namely how to keep the texture settings when converting an mdl/fsc to a 3ds for use in SU?)
Sorry for interrupting.
Click to expand...

Would I be correct that you are describing use of ModelConverterX (aka "MCX") to perform inter-conversion to a *.3DS file, since you cite a MSFS MDL and/or a FSC (FS Design Studio 2.x / 3.x ) export file as an intermediate data file format ? :scratchch

Feel free to post a link to a new thread if the topic is significantly distinct and un-related to the subject of this thread, and perhaps we might be able to better able to discern a work-flow that MCX (currently) does support adequately. ;)

GaryGB
 
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Hi Gary,

The page about the wavefront format you linked to is not about Wavefront OBJ, but about a binary Wavefront format. I'm not aware of many tools supporting that format (except the Wavefront tools themself I guess).

I did check the mtl specification again, but I don't see anything about double sided there. The only possibility would be to actually export two polygons to make it double sided.
 
GaryGB said:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...ct-not-exporting-properly.437491/#post-745907

Hi Arno:

IIUC, the (newer) Lightwave OBJ file format is inherently capable of storing double sided polygons, and involves UV vertex point list winding reversal rather than simple Normal shader manipulation.

http://paulbourke.net/dataformats/lightwave/
Click to expand...

arno said:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...ct-not-exporting-properly.437491/#post-745936

Hi Gary,

The page about the wavefront format you linked to is not about < ASCII ? :confused: -GGB > Wavefront OBJ, but about a binary Wavefront format. I'm not aware of many tools supporting that format (except the Wavefront tools themself I guess).
Click to expand...

Indeed, and IIUC, a OBJ file is further adapted from the original Wavefront criteria by Lightwave during inter-conversion to/from their proprietary 3D data format (which is itself based on the Collada DAE format):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightWave_3D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavefront_.obj_file


But I'm curious as to the implications that double sided polygons are inherently supported (or otherwise able to be stored by some means) ...within the Wavefront OBJ file specification, as well as in the Lightwave Object (LWO / LWOB / LWO2) file format:

http://paulbourke.net/dataformats/obj/

http://paulbourke.net/dataformats/


I am also curious as to whether MCX may be able to derive from a MSFS MDL and/or DirectX *.X-file, the necessary 3D geometry required for export of a 3D data file (ex: OBJ, DAE, LWOx etc.) which would for practical purposes, be a "fully intact" representation of the original object created in Sketchup (including the double sided feature) ...as referred to in the context of my inquiry above.

Perhaps this work-flow used by the native Sketchup exporter might merit consideration (as you inferred above): :idea:

"Using SketchUp Data with Other Modeling Programs or Tools - Exporting OBJ Files"

"...Export Two-Sided Faces: When you select this option, faces are exported twice: once for the front and once for the back. Although this doubles the number of polygons in the exported file, the model will look more like it appears in SketchUp. Both faces will render, and materials applied to the front and back faces are preserved."

https://help.sketchup.com/en/article/3000173


And to clarify for other interested readers, we are focused here on MCX support of Wavefront (not X-Plane) OBJ criteria:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/saving-to-obj-format.182072/



PS: In addition to Sketchup, some developers may be interested in expanding their use of MCX as an intermediate inter-converter to allow use of Blender, 3DSMAX, or MeshLab for the specific task of photo-realistic rendering of Ambient Occlusion (aka "AO") or 'dirt mapping' etc. ...prior to final output as a MSFS object:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/arno-obj-format-for-mcx-export.433710/

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/lwo-plugin.433830/

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/easiest-way-to-bake-textures.432744/#post-697637


Thanks again, Arno, for your reply ...and for any further enhancement of the MCX OBJ (and Collada DAE) file readers / writers. :)

GaryGB
 
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