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FSXA Need for Jetway extensions

raymk

raymk

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unitedkingdom
Whilst editing airport HKJK where there is a circular terminal building, it was clear that, in order to fit more parking spots around the default FSX building, I would have to put the parking spots further away from the terminal. OK but now the default FSX jetways won't span from the building out to the aircraft!

I remembered downloading a freeware airport DAAG which included jetways - "jfk jetway01" and "jfk jetway02" - which had been used as 'extensions' to the normal ones. So I copy and pasted one of each from DAAG to HKJK. OK so far, in as much as they appeared in ADE. I even copied the required textures to the "texture" folder for my HKJK. Compiled without any messages but NO jetway extensions in FSX no matter what else I tried.

Eventually I looked back thro the forums and found an item where it stated that these items come from \Scenery\NAME\scenery\newyork.bgl and that to use them you need to add them as Models having extracted them using ModelConverterX. So I did that and added them as Models in ADE and, of course, they now work as I want. In my HKJK layout, ADE lists them as Models rather than Scenery Objects.

My question now is - in the downloaded DAAG file, the objects are listed as Scenery Objects rather than Models! Had the designer of DAAG done something to change them to Scenery Objects and if so, why?

This is the first time in all my ADE days when I have had to 'resort' to Models. I assume that if I ever wanted to 'use' any other items from "newyork.bgl" or any of the other similar scenery bgl's in FSX, I would have to use the same procedure?
 
Hi,

You can handle these objects one of two ways. You handled it one way, the DAAG author handled it the other way.

1. Extract with MCX and add as models into ADE. Your way.

2. Extract with MCX and create a library BGL file from them. Then add to the ADE Library Object Manager and add as library objects. His way.

Hope this helps,
 
tgibson said:
Hi,

You can handle these objects one of two ways. You handled it one way, the DAAG author handled it the other way.

1. Extract with MCX and add as models into ADE. Your way.

2. Extract with MCX and create a library BGL file from them. Then add to the ADE Library Object Manager and add as library objects. His way.

Hope this helps,
Click to expand...

Thanks Tom,

just goes to show how little I know of what MCX can do. Will give your #2 method a go with some other objects just to see how it works.
 
MCX can't create the library BGL files, but Arno has a tool for that too - Library Creator.

The difference between the methods is that adding as an MDL file adds size and loading time each time you add one object. This is fine for things like terminal buildings that are only added once.

But for things that are added more than once (and even more important, added at other airports too) a library object is much better, since FS loads it into memory only once and then displays it many times. This would be things like ramp equipment, generic airport details, etc.
 
Tom, my thanks to you again.

I have been wondering what is the difference between the "newyork.bgl" file and a 'library BGL' file? I have to assume they are not the same sort of thing otherwise why do I need Library Creator - which I will, of course, take a look at.
 
The difference is that the newyork BGL file also has placement information as well as the modeldata info. This "geo-locks" the object into that small area. True library bgls do not include placement information,and are thus available world wide.
 
tgibson said:
The difference is that the newyork BGL file also has placement information as well as the modeldata info. This "geo-locks" the object into that small area. True library bgls do not include placement information,and are thus available world wide.
Click to expand...

So does writing the objects out as models, using MCX, eliminate the positional data? I wrote out 2 objects and used them successfully (jetways which wouldn't have positional data).

As you can tell I am no expert in MCX but I assumed that when you look at the data for an item whilst in MCX, you can see the positional data whilst looking at the box that displays the size of the object, what textures are called for, etc?
 
Hi,

Yes, if you Use Export Object and choose MDL as the file type, that eliminates the position data. Then you use a program like Library Creator to make a BGL file out of them.
 
Tom,

just to satisfy my curiosity, may I ask about this a bit more.

I open "newyork.bgl" in MCX. I go to the object "jfk_tower" expecting to find position data. I look at the 'Object information' but in the 'position' section the Lat/Long/Heading values are all zero. Do I assume that the positional info is held elsewhere? I would have thought that this is an object that WOULD have positional data attached.
 
Hi,

Sorry, I have no idea how MCX handles geo-locked position data. You would have to ask Arno over at the MCX forum for that one.
 
Ray, the stock library .bgl file contains in its header positional information that limits the latitude and longitude ranges within which FS will process the file. If you attempt to use a model from one of these libraries outside these ranges, FS will be unable to find it. FS uses this mechanism to permit models intended for a specific geographic area to be resident only when the sim is in that area. In a non-georeferenced library, these latband and lonband parameters are not set - so the model is available all the time.

Don
 
Thanks for responding Don.

Do you know if MCX displays any information as to whether any object IS geo-referenced?

The objects I managed to 'extract' were jetways so I doubt if they would have been tied to an area but I would have thought that the "jfk_tower" would have been?

I won't keep this topic open for much longer as I don't think it justifies using other people's time and energy but I am just trying to satisfy my curiosity.
 
Sorry, can't help you with MCX. As Tom suggested, try the MCX forum.

Don
 
After contemplating my navel for a while, I have concluded that, when Jon set up ADE, he included references to all of the object BGL's that are normally located in \FSX\scenery\global\scenery, as these are, as the name suggests, objects that can be used 'Globally' whereas all of the other objects BGL's, e.g. those in \FSX\scenery\NAME\scenery, are presumably geo-locked in some way.
(I had wondered in the past why all of these other BGL's were not accessible thro ADE.)

Having discovered that, by using MCX, I can 'release' a geo-locked object and use it globally, this will be my 'modus operandi'. I will try Library Creator if I find that I start using any other of the myriads of 'locked' items.

I thank everyone who responded to my queries.
 
Hi,

Using BGL2XML 1.50 I can find no differences in the XML code between geo-locked BGL files and regular library BGLs available world wide. Am I missing something?

As an example, here is the header and first Scenery Object entry of one of my decompiled library BGL files (available world wide):

Code: 
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<!-- Created by Scenery Design Engine (SDE) on 6/3/2016 -->
<FSData
   version="9.0"
   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
   xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">
   <ModelData
      name="dfebe03c44177488133cb6bae8370b03"
      sourceFile="dfebe03c44177488133cb6bae8370b03.mdl"
      fileOffset="0"/>

and here is the XML code from the decompiled Orlando.BGL file (from FS9), found in the Scenery/NAME/scenery folder. This file is marked as geo-locked by Instant Scenery and will not let me place objects from this file in (for example) Alaska:

Code: 
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<!-- Created by Scenery Design Engine (SDE) on 6/3/2016 -->
<FSData
   version="9.0"
   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
   xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">
   <ModelData
      name="7eaf1c0242da61735195f8abf1d27553"
      sourceFile="7eaf1c0242da61735195f8abf1d27553.mdl"
      fileOffset="0"/>

There is no other code in both of the files except further ModelData sections and the final </FSData> line.

So is BGL2XML not decoding some information?

Thanks,
 
Last edited:
The Lat/Lon placement code for the JFK Tower model mdl is in the APX28170 bgl.

The model data nest in the Tower

Code: 
<Tower
  lat="N40 38.54499"
  lon="W073 46.87413"
  alt="0.00M">
  <SceneryObject
  lat="N40 38.54499"
  lon="W073 46.87413"
  alt="0.0000M"
  altitudeIsAgl="TRUE"
  pitch="0.00"
  bank="0.00"
  heading="30.56"
  imageComplexity="SPARSE">
  <LibraryObject
  name="{FB833CDC-4FEA-4120-82D1-84FD47EF5E7F}" <- JFK TOWER GUID from the NewYork.bgl
  scale="1.00"/>
  </SceneryObject>
  </Tower>

The JFK Tower Library Object GUID is the only one not in the OBX28170.bgl since it is included in the Airport APX bgl with placement Lat/Lon code. All the other model.mdl's in the NewYork bgl are in the OBX28170.bgl.

Because the reference to a model is made in the same XML placement file as the model's position (OBX28170) then that model will not be available worldwide, but will be scoped to the vicinity of the placement (this is for scenery optimization purposes).

Microsoft never used the term Geo-Locked which leads us to believe the model is locked at its exact position. A better way to say it is the Model is scoped to the vicinity that it belongs to (such as New York). The next question is how large is the vicinity. You can move any model about 60 NM's from its original position.

In this picture I have moved both the Empire State Building (Lat/Lon in the OBX28170.bgl) and the KJFK tower (Lat/Lon in the APX28170.bgl) about 60 NM's south of New York city. If I move them further then 60Nm's both will disappear (due impart to their textures are not in a global setting and also outside the vicinity).

fs09.jpg


So let me reiterate that many types of model mdl's are scoped to a vicinity and that means they are not available World Wide but only available within a 60 Nm radius of their original position.

If you want these same type models to have worldwide scope, then create an XML file containing only the ModelData references, and then use additional XML placement files to actually place the models at their various locations. Now compile these XML files into a BGL and place the BGL file in a proper active scenery folder. Remember to copy the Textures of the model to a global World Wide Texture folder.
 
tgibson said:
Hi,

Using BGL2XML 1.50 I can find no differences in the XML code between geo-locked BGL files and regular library BGLs available world wide. Am I missing something?

As an example, here is the header and first Scenery Object entry of one of my decompiled library BGL files (available world wide):

Code: 
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<!-- Created by Scenery Design Engine (SDE) on 6/3/2016 -->
<FSData
   version="9.0"
   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
   xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">
   <ModelData
      name="dfebe03c44177488133cb6bae8370b03"
      sourceFile="dfebe03c44177488133cb6bae8370b03.mdl"
      fileOffset="0"/>

and here is the XML code from the decompiled Orlando.BGL file (from FS9), found in the Scenery/NAME/scenery folder. This file is marked as geo-locked by Instant Scenery and will not let me place objects from this file in (for example) Alaska:

Code: 
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<!-- Created by Scenery Design Engine (SDE) on 6/3/2016 -->
<FSData
   version="9.0"
   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
   xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">
   <ModelData
      name="7eaf1c0242da61735195f8abf1d27553"
      sourceFile="7eaf1c0242da61735195f8abf1d27553.mdl"
      fileOffset="0"/>

There is no other code in both of the files except further ModelData sections and the final </FSData> line.

So is BGL2XML not decoding some information?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

No you are not missing anything. IS does not understand the term scoped to a vicinity and the developer marks all those type models as locked.
 
Tom

Another thing to keep in mind. The FS9 model mdl's are coded slightly different then the FSX model mdl's.

In the FSX MDL objects the GUID is stored inside the model mdl unlike the FS9 which must have a name and source file for the GUID.
 
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