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Needing help on FSX AI flightplan

Messages
490
Country
brazil
Hi, All

By now, I'm converting FS9 flghtplans to FSX. This way, I'm losting the new options available in FSX AI flightplans as making circuits and include some waypoints or a route in a flightplan.

I searched the FSX SDK for some hints but found no details on how to create a flightplan with such new options.

I would be grateful if someone could give me some help on that stuff.

Thanks in advance,

José
 
Hi, All

By now, I'm converting FS9 flghtplans to FSX. This way, I'm losting the new options available in FSX AI flightplans as making circuits and include some waypoints or a route in a flightplan.

There are no options for assigning waypoints to an AI aircraft flight plan. The plane will fly great-circle route from departure to destination and follow ATC on approach. Circuits were already present in FS9, using TNG flags in ttools and the appropriate format in TDBB.

What text file format are you using ? TTools or TDBB ? I assume you are converting to TDBB since to ttools compiler for fsx has been released yet. To make an aircraft fly circuits, you must include the 5 parameters of the leg (departure time, destination, altitude, flight number and circuit end time). The plane will fly circuits until end time is reached.
ie:

1100,KDYS,65,810,1340

departing from the previous leg at 11:00Z to KDYS, FL065, F/N 810 and flying circuits at KDYS until 13:40Z
 
Hi,

Many thanks.

I supposed that routes/waypoints could be inserted in flightplans.

Circuits were already present in FS9, using TNG flags in ttools and the appropriate format in TDBB.

Well, It seems I'm wrong again. What is called "circuits" in FSX is the same as tough-and-go, in FS9?

What text file format are you using ? TTools or TDBB ? I assume you are converting to TDBB since to ttools compiler for fsx has been released yet.

Related to flightplan text, I'm afraid form the new format and looking for a "translator". But again I would ask you: is it better to write in TDBB format already?

Best Regards,

José
 
Hi,

Many thanks.

I supposed that routes/waypoints could be inserted in flightplans.

The "waypoint" insertion can be done with boat traffic.
I don't believe TDBB will allow it for aircraft.

Well, It seems I'm wrong again. What is called "circuits" in FSX is the same as tough-and-go, in FS9?

I believe this is correct unless it is reffering to the fact that
the first leg departure point and the last leg destination will
be the same...forming a complete "circuit" from A to B to C
.... and finally back to A.

Related to flightplan text, I'm afraid form the new format and looking for a "translator". But again I would ask you: is it better to write in TDBB format already?

Best Regards,

José

The new format is, well, I'd better not speak my mind here!

"Better to write in TDBB format"?....only if you have LOTS
of patience and time! TDBB is overly restrictive, unpredictable
and finicky at best.
The documentation leaves alot to be desired as does the
formats ( such as they are ) of the "report" files it produces.

It is very difficult to cross-refefence aircraft instances to
flight schedules to error/warning data in the listings.

The "airportSchedule" listing has all the data sorted
by time of day, making it very hard to determine parking
utilization for any particular airport by day of the week and THEN time of day.

It looks as though this "tool" was created by a commitee
that never actually met!

I can't begin to tally the number of hours, ney...days, that
I've spent attempting to get TDBB to accept a simple
9-aircraft, 1100 leg flight plan ( LOT airlines ) imported
from FS9. I have added dozens of additional parking places at EPWA...I now have 118...to try to eliminate "Can not find
parking..." errors. The traffic BGL that it does compile has 3...
yes 3... aircraft on the tarmac at EPWA at noon on any particular
day, while the same flight schedule imprted directly as
a FS9 traffic BGL file into FSX results in 15 or more
aircraft on the tarmac for the same airport and time
of day. Even though Frank's aisort program goes a long
way in attempting to patch up the AI traffic "break"
between FS9 and FSX, I'm afraid that the unknowns
of TDBB will remain a huge barrier in theis attempt.

Paul
 
Related to flightplan text, I'm afraid form the new format and looking for a "translator". But again I would ask you: is it better to write in TDBB format already?

Best Regards,

José

José

I use a program called fsx_flightplan_converter_1.0.zip by Jens Rabmund to convert FS2004 AI plans.

So far, I've converted the following:
1) American Airlines
2) Copa Airlines
3) Continental Airlines
4) Grupo Taca
5) Delta Airlines
6) Mexicana
7) Click!
8) Northwest Airlines

The only one of the above that I feel safe about uploading is Copa, because of copyright issues. The plans are made by others, but I convert them, do I have the right to upload same? I don't think so. In any event I asked Carlos Narvaez-Diaz permission for Copa and he gave it.

I have not asked for any of the others.

fsx_flightplan_converter It is a simple command-line utility. The only problem with it, is that it does not convert the day of the week correctly. (This changed between FS2004 and FSX).

Do you want me to give a detailed procedure on how I am converting?
 
Hi, Paull

I think there's no new option in FSX traffic to be implemented.

No waypoint route/destination, circuits are the same as touch-and-go (TNG). The worst, the new language is somehow difficult, as you pointed out, and we have no easy compiler as TTools for FSX, yet.

So, I will remain creating my traffic in FS9 format, compiling with TTools and adjusting with others well known free applications. And FSX will read the same (or best).

In the future, I would think how to migrate to the new format.

Thanks to you, guys.

José
 
So, I will remain creating my traffic in FS9 format, compiling with TTools and adjusting with others well known free applications. And FSX will read the same (or best).

This will be problematic too, because mixing BGL traffic files compiled for different FS versions can cause huge traffic loss. AFAIK this is mainly the case when
FS9 and FSX plans are using the same airport.
I circumvent this problem by doing direct binary conversion of my FS9 traffic files (there are very few differences in the BGL format itself); but I still think that the best solution is to wait for a TTools 3 or equivalent software.
Most of my AI is military and since afcad conversion is a very slow process, I can't use TDBB because it won't find any parking slot (there are no mil_combat/cargo parking spots in default FSX airports)
 
and we have no easy compiler as TTools for FSX, yet.

Such a tool does exist for me.

I feel that fsx_flightplan_converter is easy, simple, and fast.

For me, it is not acceptable to mix FS9 and FSX AI plans...because of the traffic losses. So I made the decision to populate my FSX world with all FSX traffic.

Just wish I could get ahold of Jens Rabmund to make a simple date change.
 
José

I use a program called fsx_flightplan_converter_1.0.zip by Jens Rabmund to convert FS2004 AI plans.

-SNIP-

Have you tried aisort, Rhett? It's much easier to use.
I found that running a flightplan with some "24Hour"
specs caused flight_plan_converter to skip converting those
plans but it still kept them in the output file.
It seems to only handle plans with a weekly format.

I've all but given up attempting to convert FS9 plans to
try to satisfy the overly and unnecessarily rigid requirements
imposed by TDBB. I've just removed the FSX default
traffic bgl and replaced it with sevaeral of my FS9 traffic
bgl's. Now, instead of having a handfull of aircraft listed
in the Traffic View window, I have a hundred or more
around major airports.
The downside is that my moving aircraft carriers are gone,
but I can restore them when I want to fly to/from them by
temporarily moving my FS9 traffic BGL's into a TEMP folder.

I spent days adding parking to several airports in an attempt
to squelch the "Cannot find parking...." errors issued by
TDBB. It reported it coudn't find parking for 10 ATR-42's
at EPWA ( I have 118 spaces there now! ) and I added 11
spaces to accomodate them, the next compile reported it
couldn't find parking for 5 ATR-42's at EPWA!

IMO, TDBB is seriously flawed, but if you want to convert
FS9 plans then I suggest you try aisort. Frank, from this forum
has uploaded the latest version to Avsim.

Paul
 
Last edited:
Hi,

Downloaded.

I'll try.

I agree that things must be separated. If I want to distribute a traffic bgl fo FSX I couldn't suppose people has FS9 installed, too (just to use aircrafts).

I'll make some efforts to adhere to FSX way.

Regards,

José
 
Have you tried aisort, Rhett?

Yes, briefly.

It's much easier to use.

Well for me anyway I found the learning curve much higher with aisort. I was presented with this big gui and excel-type listing. Plus I have to name my files these arcane names like AirportList.txt. I prefer to name my airports file, aal_airports.dat (for American Airlines), and nwa_airlines.dat (for Northwest)...

If you say it's easier, I value your opinion so that I will re-try it and see what happens.

I'm kind of old-school and like command-line utils and text editors over complex guis.

I found that running a flightplan with some "24Hour"
specs caused flight_plan_converter to skip converting those
plans but it still kept them in the output file.
It seems to only handle plans with a weekly format.

Could be. I have only converted weeklies. Really only a few mods need to be made to the output file.

I've just removed the FSX default
traffic bgl and replaced it with sevaeral of my FS9 traffic
bgl's.

In my case I have renamed the default traffic file to disable it...and use about 10 of my custom FSX traffic bgls'. So far I have done American, Continental, Northwest, Delta, Copa, TACA, Mexicana, and a few others. Presently working on Aeromexico.

Now, instead of having a handfull of aircraft listed
in the Traffic View window, I have a hundred or more
around major airports.

Yep, I have about 90 aircraft at KDFW now with slider at 100%, since I made American Airlines. :) My system handles up to 40 without too much fps loss. 90 ai starts to kill fps. One thing I do in my traffic BGL's is normalize them to the FSX traffic slider, so that 50% yields exactly 50% of the aircraft. Works like a charm.

I spent days adding parking to several airports in an attempt
to squelch the "Cannot find parking...." errors issued by
TDBB.

Paul, you don't need to do that. All that you need to do, is edit your airports.dat file to reflect phantom parking so that TDBB will compile the route.

Example:

KDFW
{
PARKING,19.0,GATE
PARKING,19.0,GATE
PARKING,33.0,GATE
PARKING,33.0,GATE
}

I put these "fake" vals in the airports.dat file, and the compiler is fooled. I use the values 19.0 (for smaller parking spots) and 33.0 (for larger spots) because those are non-standard values...that way, I can tell where I've made mods if I ever want to remove them. Note I do not modify the fs10airports.dat file that comes with the SDK. I make MY OWN airports.dat file for the airline I'm converting, and modify that file.

Does this affect the sim at all? Do my routes disappear for lack of parking? Absolutely NOT. TDBB is overly restrictive. In the sim, there will be space at most airports, despite what TDBB says...so the trick is fooling it to make it compile.

So, you don't need to make afcads for these in most cases.

In a few instances, yes, you will need to actually make more parking (such as at MPTO in my case of Copa Airlines...) but in general, no. The worst thing that happens, is that aircraft land, and then disappear when they start their taxi. A little observing finds this problem.

IMO, TDBB is seriously flawed, but if you want to convert
FS9 plans then I suggest you try aisort. Frank, from this forum
has uploaded the latest version to Avsim.

Paul

I'll try it again since you mentioned it. One thing about it, I have a well-established method/system for converting FS9 ai traffic files, and it works really well.

Having to manually fix the day of the week, though, is REALLY annoying. I am glad Frank knew about that and coded his tool appropriately. Maybe for that, it would be worth it to learn how to use it.
 
Hi,

I made a little prog to do the conversion : download here. Not a full-featured software, just a byproduct of some code I wrote for AI boats.

If it converts the day of the week correctly, you are a savior of much hard work!

0 = Monday in FSX

0 = Sunday in FS2004.

I hope my sys accepts the .jar files.
 
If it converts the day of the week correctly, you are a savior of much hard work!

I don't think so, it just reads the FS9 file and write equivalent data in FSX format. A 0 day in FS9 will remain 0 in FSX. But changing the day is easily feasible, I will try to implement it soon
 
Yes, briefly.



Well for me anyway I found the learning curve much higher with aisort. I was presented with this big gui and excel-type listing. Plus I have to name my files these arcane names like AirportList.txt. I prefer to name my airports file, aal_airports.dat (for American Airlines), and nwa_airlines.dat (for Northwest)...
The "Airportslist.txt" is the file created by the Traffic Toolbox
"dump airports" command. This is put in your main FSX folder as "airport_list_1" with no extension. I rename it
and put it in the aisort "FSX_Traffic" directory.
You only need to do this once, or when you make changes
to airports in FSX. It serves as the "master" list for info
when aisort runs. Its the same as the "airports.dat" file
for the TDBB.

I still name my input files, as you do, with self-explanatory names. ( Filghtplans_LOT.txt, Aircraft_LOT.txt, etc )

Paul, you don't need to do that. All that you need to do, is edit your airports.dat file to reflect phantom parking so that TDBB will compile the route.

Example:

KDFW
{
PARKING,19.0,GATE
PARKING,19.0,GATE
PARKING,33.0,GATE
PARKING,33.0,GATE
}

I put these "fake" vals in the airports.dat file, and the compiler is fooled. I use the values 19.0 (for smaller parking spots) and 33.0 (for larger spots) because those are non-standard values...that way, I can tell where I've made mods if I ever want to remove them. Note I do not modify the fs10airports.dat file that comes with the SDK. I make MY OWN airports.dat file for the airline I'm converting, and modify that file.

Does this affect the sim at all? Do my routes disappear for lack of parking? Absolutely NOT. TDBB is overly restrictive. In the sim, there will be space at most airports, despite what TDBB says...so the trick is fooling it to make it compile.

Hummm...I had thought about trying that but didn't get
around to trying it. That was before I made the determination
that there was something seriously wrong with the way
TDBB deals with parking allocation. I'll definately give
it a shot.

So, you don't need to make afcads for these in most cases.

In a few instances, yes, you will need to actually make more parking (such as at MPTO in my case of Copa Airlines...) but in general, no. The worst thing that happens, is that aircraft land, and then disappear when they start their taxi. A little observing finds this problem.

I have a bunch of Eastern European airports, mostly old
military fields, that I "re-activated" in FS9, added alot of
custom hard shelters, etc, and then scheduled dozens of
Mig-15, 17 and 19 aircraft with repainted markings for
Poaland, Hungary, USSR and Czechoslovakia to fly from
airport to airport, along with some TU-95 Bears and IL-18 Coots.

I have to add sufficient parking to the fields and make sure
there was enough large spaces to handle the TU-95's.

The default FSX airports just didn't cut it so I imported my
FS9 AFCAD and scenery files and made the necessary changes
to overcome the terrain bleed-through on the runways and
some "re-location" issues.

In the case of EPWA ( Okecie, Warsaw ), I have some of the
military traffic visiting but mostly commercial, and TDBB just
would not compile my flightplans without errors. I finally
reached 118 spaces of varying sizes when I gave up!

Hopefully lc0227's utility will allow me to use my FS9
traffic BGL's and have them co-exist, actively, with
FSX BGL's.

I'll try it again since you mentioned it. One thing about it, I have a well-established method/system for converting FS9 ai traffic files, and it works really well.

Having to manually fix the day of the week, though, is REALLY annoying. I am glad Frank knew about that and coded his tool appropriately. Maybe for that, it would be worth it to learn how to use it.

As I mentioned above, once you put the airportlist file
in it's place then the input files are only the schedules and
aircraft files that can have any name.
And of course, as you are aware I'm sure, the TDBB allows you
to specify the source files ( of any name ) that are to be used.

At my last attempt to satisfy TDBB, I was using the initial
output from aisort, before compilation, making whatever
tweaks I thought were needed, then submitting them to
TDBB. So, in this case, aisort is doing for me the same
thing that the program you are using is doing for you.
Our procedures merge at the "bottleneck"...TDBB!

Paul
 
I don't think so, it just reads the FS9 file and write equivalent data in FSX format. A 0 day in FS9 will remain 0 in FSX. But changing the day is easily feasible, I will try to implement it soon

lc0277...a BIG THANK YOU! ...for this little utility!

I just ran several of my FS9 traffic BGL's though your
program and am happy to announce that my airports
and skies in FSX are once again full of traffic and the
AI carrier traffic that I created, again thanks to your
AI_Boat program, co-exist with the converted FS9 BGL's!
The day-of-the-week doesn't concern me much.

I can now concentrate on modifying the FS9 scenery that
I've brought into FSX and stop "fighting" with TDBB and
all it's quirks!

Also, yet another program of yours, the logbook editor,
is something I use often, since I am constantly doing
"test hops" with my many scenery/traffic mods and have
to delete alot of the logbook entries. As you are well aware,
this can be problematic if left to FSX to do the deletions!

So, again THANKS for all three of the utilities you
have created for the FSX world.

Paul
 
The "Airportslist.txt" is the file created by the Traffic Toolbox
"dump airports" command. This is put in your main FSX folder as "airport_list_1" with no extension. I rename it
and put it in the aisort "FSX_Traffic" directory.
You only need to do this once, or when you make changes
to airports in FSX. It serves as the "master" list for info
when aisort runs. Its the same as the "airports.dat" file
for the TDBB.

Then why isn't it just called airports.dat? :)

Hummm...I had thought about trying that but didn't get
around to trying it. That was before I made the determination
that there was something seriously wrong with the way
TDBB deals with parking allocation. I'll definately give
it a shot.

It works great. The thing is, you probably will have to add MANY many parking entries to your airports.dat file. And like I said, I'd suggest giving the parking spaces oddball sizes in your file, so that you know what you've modded.

For EPWA, for example, you'll probably have to add about 30-40:

PARKING,19.0,GATE
PARKING,33.0,GATE
PARKING,33.0,GATE
PARKING,24.0,GATE
PARKING,19.0,GATE
PARKING,.......

and so on. Keep adding entries (using cut and paste to save typing) until TDBB accepts *all* of your plans.

I have to add sufficient parking to the fields and make sure
there was enough large spaces to handle the TU-95's.

That's a big bear of a plane. That must look neat to have all of those Tu's and MiG's flying around there.

In the case of EPWA ( Okecie, Warsaw ), I have some of the
military traffic visiting but mostly commercial, and TDBB just
would not compile my flightplans without errors. I finally
reached 118 spaces of varying sizes when I gave up!

You shouldn't need that many, even at EPWA. It's not your AFCAD that needs parking added; it's your airports.dat file. Try it out and see what you get.

Hopefully lc0227's utility will allow me to use my FS9
traffic BGL's and have them co-exist, actively, with
FSX BGL's.

Don't think that can happen. FS9 and FSX traffic bgl's can't co-exist at the same airport at the same time...it seems this was coded into the sim on purpose.

At my last attempt to satisfy TDBB, I was using the initial
output from aisort, before compilation, making whatever
tweaks I thought were needed, then submitting them to
TDBB. So, in this case, aisort is doing for me the same
thing that the program you are using is doing for you.
Our procedures merge at the "bottleneck"...TDBB!

The biggest hassle for me, is manually editing EVERY SINGLE FLIGHT LEG to reflect the correct day of the week. That is a major problem.

I'm going to get into aisort this weekend and really get it working.
 
Then why isn't it just called airports.dat? :)

Beats me :)

That's a big bear of a plane. That must look neat to have all of those Tu's and MiG's flying around there.

Yes, it's pretty impressive to watch 4-6 Migs taxiing to the active, followed by a Tu-95.

I've seen 2-3 Migs flying almost in formation as I wandered
though my AI list while on autopilot. I do have alot of them schheduled!

You shouldn't need that many, even at EPWA. It's not your AFCAD that needs parking added; it's your airports.dat file. Try it out and see what you get.

Actually, after each itteration of adding parking at EPWA
or any of my other airports, I went through the "Dump Airports"
procedure and updated my airportlist.txt/.dat/csv as needed
so the file always had the updated parking count and sapce
sizes.
Still, TDBB balked, giving me a few less errors but not as
many fewer as the number/size of the spaces I added!

Dummy entries would have achieved the same results
without having to edit/re-compile the AFCAD but as it
turns out I would do a tweak or to to the other aspects
of the file anyhow.

Don't think that can happen. FS9 and FSX traffic bgl's can't co-exist at the same airport at the same time...it seems this was coded into the sim on purpose.

I ran a half-dozen of my FS9 traffic BGL files through
lc0277's utility last night and then moved them into
FSX along with some FSX format BGL files. Both sets
of traffic were present, while they weren't when I used
the original, unconverted FS9 BGL's.
So, the utility works as advertised and I can not go on to
other tweaking matters and leave the TDBB nightmare
behind :)

The utility takes into account the renamed, added and deleted
airports between the two sims and writes out a BGL that
is larger in size that the original but co-exists with the
FSX files since it is essentially the same format now that
it has been converted.

The biggest hassle for me, is manually editing EVERY SINGLE FLIGHT LEG to reflect the correct day of the week. That is a major problem.

I'm going to get into aisort this weekend and really get it working.

I don't care too much about the day of the week thing
but I was thinging that if I choose to, I could go through
my FS9 TTools schedules and use the find/replace function
to adjust the doy of the week. Then compile and run the
BGL through lc0277's utility. Just a thought at the moment.

Paul
 
Then why isn't it just called airports.dat? :)



It works great. The thing is, you probably will have to add MANY many parking entries to your airports.dat file. And like I said, I'd suggest giving the parking spaces oddball sizes in your file, so that you know what you've modded.

For EPWA, for example, you'll probably have to add about 30-40:

PARKING,19.0,GATE
PARKING,33.0,GATE
PARKING,33.0,GATE
PARKING,24.0,GATE
PARKING,19.0,GATE
PARKING,.......

and so on. Keep adding entries (using cut and paste to save typing) until TDBB accepts *all* of your plans.



That's a big bear of a plane. That must look neat to have all of those Tu's and MiG's flying around there.



You shouldn't need that many, even at EPWA. It's not your AFCAD that needs parking added; it's your airports.dat file. Try it out and see what you get.



Don't think that can happen. FS9 and FSX traffic bgl's can't co-exist at the same airport at the same time...it seems this was coded into the sim on purpose.



The biggest hassle for me, is manually editing EVERY SINGLE FLIGHT LEG to reflect the correct day of the week. That is a major problem.

I'm going to get into aisort this weekend and really get it working.

Aisort changes the sunday 0 to monday 0 When it saves the Sceds file after you've finished importing the ttools plans.
I'm getting around the gate probs by changing all my Afcad gate sizes to match the FsX gate sizes ie 18m, 23m and 36m. the problem I found is that TDDB will reject a leg when the aircraft size is 10m smaller than a gate ,hence if an aircaft is 24m it wil be rejeted at all stock airports.
this can be overcome by resizing the aircraft in the aircraft.txt file that is presented to TDDB ,I have tested this in aisort and got most of my Ausy air craft flying.
I am currently Tearing my hair out over a rewrite of the sort routine which may get a few more airbourne.
I also recomend splitting up the Flight plans into 250 kb files That can bypass TDDB stopping the airport from being over loaded.

Regards Frank
 
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