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Problem with Orbx.

jtanabodee

Resource contributor
Hi,
I got a problem from mnay users using my WMKK airport. If they have Orbx, there is a duplication or runway making. How can I do to make Orbx to be compatible with mine. I think they might have a file of this airport in Scenery/World/Scenery which cannot overwrite or disable by scenery priority. I have asked them but no answer yet.
Screenshot_20201031-172019.png
 

dave hoeffgen

Resource contributor
Maybe it is beacause of the Orbx Central application that always moves the Orbx products to the top of the scenery library. It has a setting where they should be put and it makes sense most of the time to put them below all the other airport addons.
 
Hi Tic:

I agree with Dave's assessment of this scenario, as it is unlikely OrbX would ever place that type of scenery to load from within [FS install path]\Scenery\World Scenery.

At most, one would see airport stubs used for Altitude adjustments etc., but AFAIK, not RWYs. :scratchch


Here's an edited excerpt from one of my old posts on the FTX Central "Insertion Point" option for OrbX scenery layers in Scenery Library:


By default, FTX Central utility always re-inserts FTX layers to a position at- / near the top of- P3D Scenery Library GUI stack of layers. :alert:


By default, when the FTX Central configuration utility runs automatically following installation /configuration of OrbX FTX scenery packages:

* Custom entries are added to the 'active' Terrain.Cfg if they are not already present.

* Several OrbX FTX scenery Area layers are added to the 'top' position of the 'active' FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers.


Because by default, OrbX FTX scenery Area layers are added to the 'top' position of the P3D Scenery Library GUI, custom scenery may not render properly (if at all), so one should allow for non-OrbX add-on or personally-created custom scenery to be loaded later by placing them above the OrbX FTX scenery Area layers ...at- or nearer to- the 'top' position of the FS Scenery Library GUI.

Each time OrbX FTX Central utility is run OrbX FTX scenery Area layers are again automatically added to the 'top' position of the 'active' FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers by default.

One can change that default behavior of OrbX FTX Central utility by configuring the OrbX FTX scenery Area layers to be automatically placed at a lower position in the 'active' FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers by:

OrbX FTX Central Menu > Tools > Scenery Library Configuration > FTX Scenery Library Insertion Points

NOTE: Newer versions of OrbX FTX Central utility may be subject to a different menu / dialog configurations :alert:


This results in an assigned position, above which OrbX FTX scenery Area layers will NOT be inserted ...until a new Insertion Point is assigned within that FTX Central utility dialog.


PS: Other considerations may include Alpha-numeric file name contention between the BGL(s) containing the RWY objects from both yourself and OrbX, as well as how your add-on implemented transparency, as in some cases, scenery objects may be 'bleed-through to the top' ...from layers below one's own in the Scenery Library.


Hope this info helps with the troubleshooting process. :)

GaryGB
 
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jtanabodee

Resource contributor
So......
Nothing I can do on my side. I mean, any exclusion for Orbx?

I hate when that happens and all the users blame on my scenery because it WAS JUST installed. The last one always get blamed.

All the manufures of GLOBAL product (the product that effect the whole FSX/P3d world) should be aware that there will be tons of addons from other people in the long run.

This problem is always happen to AI flight plane program such as Traffic X. They add their limited version of numerous airports in Scenery/World/Scenery folder which cannot disable by the priority of the scenery.

It always happen to Orbx. I have told them already. They should come up with some solutions to the users but, sadly, they don't.
And I always get blame just simply they install my scenery AFTER these programs and problem happens after my product is installed so the problem is mine.
Someone even said that "I paid you the product, you have to fix this ASAP"

I have to tell all my customers that this is not my problem at all.
You guys ( the users) need to bombard them with questions and let them know the problem is their, not mine.
If their forum does not flood with questions they will ignore to correct the problem.
Please fire your questions to them.....please.
 
This is probably an issue with ground polys, you can't really exclude them. Normally my installers disable any Orbx ground polys at my airports.
 
Hi Tic:

No doubt this scenario is frustrating, but it is the result of how ACES set up the scenery priority contention mechanism in MS-FS.

To their credit, OrbX provides a way to create an Insertion Point for all their products; I'm not aware of anyone else who does that.


BTW: If everyone provided a similar mechanism, they also would also potentially be in contention with each other. :alert:


Solutions must be configured by end users according to a knowledge of what add-on contentions they see on their unique FS installation.


Your screenshot in the OP shows a high resolution RWY G-Poly bleeding through to the top of another high resolution RWY G-Poly.

By their very nature, high resolution G-Poly RWYs are 3D models made up of multiple textured segments.

AFAIK, whether 3D model G-Poly RWYs are coded in SCASM / ASM, FSX / P3Dv1.x, P3Dv2.x-4.x, or P3Dv5 format, they can be excluded.


Exclude and Replace is the Cardinal Rule of MS-FS scenery making, and we "should" always provide an exclude with our own scenery.

Such Exclude BGLs can be included in a single Scenery Library layer for our own add-on by using a "load first" priority alpha-numeric name.


https://www.google.com/search?biw=1...&ved=0ahUKEwiInYa8mePsAhUQbs0KHRGKBmkQ4dUDCAw


Whether / how that exclude works, depends on where end users position our scenery package(s) within their own unique FS installation.


To exclude a G-Poly RWY from a conflicting addon scenery:

* Place a BGLComp Exclusion Rectangle (not SHP2VEC Polygon) over the Reference Point of each segment of a conflicting G-Poly.

* Load a G-Poly BGLComp Exclusion Rectangle BGL from a Scenery Library layer above BGLs for any other conflicting G-Poly.


PS: To be certain as to the source of a conflicting G-Poly, one can use the "Labels" feature in Instant Scenery as explained here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ement-file-that-uses-guids.445956/post-828246


Hope this helps. :)

GaryGB
 
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jtanabodee

Resource contributor
Thanks Gary. What I can do is telling the users to ask Orbx how to deal with that problem. Not every user is good at the setting of the program they are using.
 

Cédrice

Resource contributor
So......
Nothing I can do on my side. I mean, any exclusion for Orbx?

I hate when that happens and all the users blame on my scenery because it WAS JUST installed. The last one always get blamed.

All the manufures of GLOBAL product (the product that effect the whole FSX/P3d world) should be aware that there will be tons of addons from other people in the long run.

This problem is always happen to AI flight plane program such as Traffic X. They add their limited version of numerous airports in Scenery/World/Scenery folder which cannot disable by the priority of the scenery.

It always happen to Orbx. I have told them already. They should come up with some solutions to the users but, sadly, they don't.
And I always get blame just simply they install my scenery AFTER these programs and problem happens after my product is installed so the problem is mine.
Someone even said that "I paid you the product, you have to fix this ASAP"

I have to tell all my customers that this is not my problem at all.
You guys ( the users) need to bombard them with questions and let them know the problem is their, not mine.
If their forum does not flood with questions they will ignore to correct the problem.
Please fire your questions to them.....please.
This is why I have no scenery from ORBX TOO MANY COMPATIBILITY PROBLEMS it goes back many years.
:)
 
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jtanabodee

Resource contributor
This is why I have no scenery from ORBX TOO MANY COMPATIBILITY PROBLEMS it goes back many years.
:)
Yes, I think the same. If someone do something that cover the entire Flight Sim World, the first thing they have to think about is: tons of addon that will come after their release. Too bad that the users are always believe that the lost one they get in their computer before problems happen, is the culprit.
 
So what addon is it from Orbx that's causing the problem? Because the only thing I see that has anything to do with that area is Vector which I have installed. Maybe I'm missing something. I've done a top-down search of my P3D folder and I found one file that has something to do with WMKK and that's ABP_WMKK.bgl which is an airport background that precisely matches the default airport background found in Scenery\0903\Scenery\cvx7531.bgl. Vector lays down an "exclude all terrain items" for each QMID11 cell so naturally they'd need to come along in a scenery layer above that and put the APB back somehow. There's nothing at all in the Scenery\World\Scenery folder for WMKK, not a WMKK .bgl, not a 7531 .bgl, nothing. It's not one of the Global freeware airports which I also have installed, and it's not in the list of either enabled or disabled airport elevation corrections (AECs) in Vector's configuration utility. There is nothing that I can see in my Orbx scenery installation that would cause an errant runway to show up over your ground poly (or vice versa), there's nothing at all that has an AFD. LittleNavMap shows nothing but the default Prepar3D v4\Scenery\0903\scenery\APX75310.bgl is responsible for WMKK.

Conversely a search for WMKK in the Avsim library reveals 28 items, some of them have absolutely nothing to do with upgrading the airport and everything to do with AI traffic. A similar search on flightsim.com reveals 22 results. This extraneous runway could just as easily be from a freeware airport your customer may have downloaded at some point without even knowing he did it. IMO you're looking for a problem in an area where no problem exists and you need to stop automatically blaming the evil payware company for everything that causes you problems.
 
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jtanabodee

Resource contributor
This extraneous runway could just as easily be from a freeware airport your customer may have downloaded at some point without even knowing he did it. IMO you're looking for a problem in an area where no problem exists and you need to stop automatically blaming the evil payware company for everything that causes you problems.
I am sorry saying that, JRobinson. I don't have Orbx to test either. I don't have that problem. But the customers said that if they disable Orbx the problem went away!. That's all I know. So, what should I do with it? I really want to solve the problem but I cannot. May be you don't have the same as my customers have.
 
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jtanabodee

Resource contributor
I found this post from Orbx forum. I think it migh be the solution.
Holger.jpg
 
Hi Tic:

IIUC, your screenshot in the OP shows a high resolution RWY G-Poly bleeding through to the top of another high resolution RWY G-Poly.

IMHO, considering the FS2Kx / FSX / P3D default RWYs use a legacy *.R8 texture format, it appears unlikely the conflicting RWY is a default RWY object.


By their very nature, high resolution G-Poly RWYs are custom 3D models made up of multiple textured segments, and are separate- and distinct- from default RWY objects.

AFAIK, whether 3D model G-Poly RWYs are coded in SCASM / ASM, FSX / P3Dv1.x, P3Dv2.x-4.x, or P3Dv5 format, they can be excluded.


IIRC, troubleshooting this would simply require a SDK BGLComp-compiled Exclusion Rectangle (NOT a SDK SHP2VEC-compiled Exclusion Polygon).


Did you include a SDK BGLComp-compiled Exclusion Rectangle in your scenery package to prevent display of the 3rd party underlying high resolution RWY G-Poly ? :scratchch

If so, just tell your end user to move your airport scenery up to a position above other layers in the scenery library until the unwanted RWY no longer displays. ;)


Again, OrbX FTX scenery users may also minimize display conflicts with your scenery package(s) via a FTX Central Insertion Point in Scenery Library as explained above. :pushpin:


GaryGB
 
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jtanabodee

Resource contributor
I don't think so, Garry. There are double taxiway lines and those with orange arrows are default line. So, I think what Holger posted is my case. The whole airport AFCAD lines bleed through. The red arrow is high resolution line that I made.

Screenshot.jpg
 
Hi Tic:

Here are some screenshots of the default FS WMKK RWY-32R:

FSX Acceleration

fsx_acceleration_default_wmkk_rwy-32_no_orbx-jpg.65123



P3Dv4.5

p3dv4_5_default_wmkk_rwy-32_no_orbx-jpg.65124


Please tell us whether you did- or did not- provide an exclude for 3D objects and any default or 3rd party airports with your own WMKK scenery package. :scratchch

GaryGB
 

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jtanabodee

Resource contributor
Yes, I have exclusion. I loaded up the default airport and delete all the objects then compile the airport. I use just the xml of the exclusion and compile it as a separated bgl file. I DO NOT have big exclusion on my ADE file. I use micro exclusion generated by ADE.
My computer does not show any problems at all. Users computers with Orbx only show the problem. That screen shot is from one of the user.
 
Hi Tic:

Assuming your WMKK uses a default flatten, are your custom G-Polys placed at altitudes slightly higher than the default airport flatten, ARP, and RWYs / Taxiways ? :scratchch

IIUC, even though you used ADE to Exclude such underlying default or 3rd party airport objects to keep them from from 'bleeding through to the top', IIUC from Jim's analysis above, because OrbX FTX Vector places ABP_WMKK.bgl (at an Altitude identical to the ABP flatten in the default FSX / P3D CVX vector BGL for WMKK), all custom WMKK airport package AFD airport objects placed at 0 Meters AGL are displayed in FS at run time at the default Altitude of 21.336 Meters / 70 Feet AMSL.

IIRC, regardless of whether one's G-Polys are in SCASM / ASM or MDL format, and regardless of the internal "VTP Layer Number" / offset assigned to G-Polys, one must place G-Polys at a slightly higher assigned Altitude than the ARP to prevent underlying default or 3rd party AFD airport objects from 'bleeding through to the top'.

If your end user has an active installation of a (ex: non-OrbX) 3rd party WMKK airport that was made using default AFD airport objects and their default AFD mapped textures, and that airport is also placed at the default WMKK airport Altitude of 21.336 Meters / 70 Feet AMSL, it is likely to 'bleed through to the top'.

Thus, as the airport display anomaly in question in this thread is not likely to be resolved by having the end user set an OrbX FTX Central Insertion Point in Scenery Library, you may wish to consider providing a version of your WMKK G-Polys that are placed slightly above the default ARP.

AFAIK, to prevent this anomaly with other airport projects, one may place G-Polys at altitudes slightly higher than underlying default / 3rd party airport flatten, ARP, RWYs.

GaryGB
 
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