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FSXA Problem with stock data (?) or/and moving an airport

I

ian727

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germany
Hey,

I am currently working on a project in the DR Congo, I am reworking every airport/airstrip there which I was able to locate with sattelite Images. Right now I am busy with FZBK, Boshwe/Bosobe Airport.

The common issue with airports in the Congo is that they are mislocated. It takes pretty much time to locate their original location, using old maps and a variety of other websites.

I assume FZBK to be that strip: -3.288616, 18.828617. Still, I am not 100% sure if thats the actual airport. The location is around 30Km away from the original one in FSX.

Now to the problem. Changing the location of an airport was actually never a problem for me and ADE. But now, something doesnt work. I moved the whole airport to this location, also the pink "airport properties" thing.
However, FZBK can be found twice in the FSX now: The old runway, which is basically the whole airport as it was included in the FSX, is still at the old location. On the FSX-map it reads "Boshwe (FZBK)". At the new location, you can see everything else of the airport like Land Class, Roads, Buildings, (I created) but not the runway or any parking positions. On the map, its says ". (FZBK)"

Somehow, the FSX still loads the stock airport, but also the new _CVX file of the "new" airport.
 
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ian727 said:
Somehow, the FSX still loads the stock airport, but also the new _CVX file of the "new" airport.
Click to expand...
I can confirm this. I tried to exclude additionally airport backgrounds, but the exclusion rectangle disappears when reloading the saved airport in ADE. A position marker remained. The complete airport appears in ADE at the new position, however, the RAW-data listing shows two airport objects and (surprise) the exclusion poly as well (it's neither listed nor appears it visually). In FSX the runway appears where it was before (including the excluded default background). The ARP and the new background poly can be visited at the new place.

EDIT 1: BTW, I have some doubts about your finding but the runway could be of course the street in-midst a village

EDIT 2: My Protocol is on its way.
 
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Good Morning,

thanks for the replies!

First, after having dealt with the Congo for quite some time I am 100% sure that the dirt strip you can see is, or at least used to be an airstrip :)

So.. How I moved the airport. Well, thats easily said. I have the coordinates I posted above and replaced them with the ones that are shown when you right click --> edit object on this pink/purple thing/symbol which saves the airport properties. Bad explanation, do you know what I mean? So after hitting "enter", this purple symbol went to the new location. I zoomed out and moved runway and tower viewpoint to the new location (using drag and drop). Then I corrected runway heading, added taxipaths and so on and on.

Is that understandable?
 
It is - I assume you do not have a ProKey? With that there is a move airport function. Dragging the airport reference point and then moving the other objects may also work. But you are telling me that the stock airport and your new placed airport are both showing. The first thing is to be completely sure that there is no other bgl file containing this airport in its original location. The second thing is to upload your project file (.ad4 extension) with the moved features to a post here. Then we can check it to see what might be happening. We do know of one or two cases where FS seems to ignore a moved airport. We don't know why but in this case the airport only appears at the original position.
 
Airport Reference Point - thank you very much - finally the word for it.

Yes, correct: I moved the airport reference point and the other objects to the new location. Now, I have two "FZBK" Airport in my FSX. The old one, which consists of the runway (the Airport Background has been excluded by me) and the new one which is lacking the runway, parking and so on.

Furthermore: I also moved the tower viewpoint, but in FSX it remains at the stock (old) position. And I just checked: The runway data (length, width, heading) is also still the stock data.

And.. hehe, I should update my ADE. I'm still in the ad3 era. Though, ADE itself says I own the recent version. Should I upload the file anyways?
 
The in program update messages only apply within a major version. New Major versions are usually too large to deliver via the on-line system so we provide a new full installer for them. The current version is 1.65 You can download it from here: http://www.scruffyduck.org/downloads/4584110854. It installs separately from any existing version and you will be given the option to import your existing settings into the new version when you first run it: https://scruffyduck.screenstepslive.com/s/help_docs/m/20268/c/75654



In the meantime please upload the .ad3 file.
 
OK - I can see the problem but currently I have no answer. Since FSX thinks that FSBK is at the stock location I wonder if it thinks there are two different airports - although this should be done based on the ICAO Ident. I don't think any other date is used to identify airports
 
Set the ARP to its default position and it should be OK:





I believe FSX uses both the ICAO and the ARP to determine whether the file is a replacement.
 
I ran some tests and got some odd results. I am using the ADE Move Airport Function. You can try this out if you don't have a ProKey but downloading and installing the ProKey from here: http://www.scruffyduck.org/the-prokey/4584110818 You get 15 days to try it out.

Now there are two ways to move an airport. One is distance and heading and the other is by coordinates. If I move the stock FZBK using distance and heading it moves. If I try to move it using coordinates it doesn't. However when I look at the bgl file created by ADE then the coordinates of the airport are shown correctly. However running more tests the airport moved properly.
 
I believe FSX uses both the ICAO and the ARP to determine whether the file is a replacement.
Click to expand...

I wish that were true George but based on my tests it isn't. It seems that for some moves it can make things work but I don't think it is correct that leaving the ARP behind is required to get a move of the airport elements to work. However if it could be reliably proven then.......
 
scruffyduck said:
However running more tests the airport moved properly.
Click to expand...
FSX doesn't know (or care) how the airport was moved. All it knows is the bgl that was created. If the bgls are different due to the different move strategy, it will react differently.

Could it be that the default Test Radius is 5000m and the ARP is being moved further than this?
 
Hej,

Was an interesting idea to move the ARP back to its default position. The good thing: Selecting FZBK in the FSX menu makes the aircraft spawn at the new location. The bad thing:

1. When I select FZBK, and go back to the FSX main Menu, it says "Oshwe" instead of "Boshwe" (?!). Oshwe is indeed another airport in the Congo which is included in the FSX.
2. The runway only appears after taxiing like 500m. I then depends on the viewpoint whether you can see it or not (this could also be an altitude issue..)
3. FZBK is shown on the FSX map - but at the old location

In addition, I set the test radius to 100000m when I first noticed the problem, but that didnt change anything.
 
Okay, I got it solved. Rather radical ;)

I just completely removed the stock data from the FSX. Here I go..

Boshwe is called Boshwe, the runway completely appears (so this was no altitude issue) and FZBK is correctly shown on the FSX map!

The only thing.. Using the scenery tag "Medium city grid urban dry" looks quite terrible if you want to have an african village. But I guess that cant be helped..

Thanks for all the help here :)
 
I think this is an important issue. I want to qualify my position on this. I have spent a couple of hours thinking about it while I was working on a 'proper' job - making cupboard doors in case anyone cares :)

So here is what I think:
  • George is right. Leave the ARP in place and move the airport elements. FSX thinks it has the original airport but all the bits are moved. So this is not really moving the airport but re-arranging the bits.
  • However in many cases moving the ARP along with the airport elements does work. I think we are seeing something that exists in FSX for navaids and similar things that the SDK does not provide us with a way to edit or move. We can move navaids over short distances. If we move them too far then they duplicate at some point and then finally we lose the new one and FSX only displays the original. I think now that something similar is happening with the airport and its reference point. In fact there is no way in the SDK to delete the original ARP so that does allow for the Navaid move problem to apply to airports. I have been able to generate situations where the moved airport just does not move at all - but changing the new location even a small amount can get it to move and display. The version of FZBK that Ian posted actually exhibited a different behavior for me. All the elements got moved but FSX thought that the starts and so on were in the original position.
I have concerns about leaving the ARP in its original location. I am not sure if FSX uses that information for anything other than a reference - there may be some other effects. Really won't matter over short distances but then moving the ARP a short distance from the stock position does seem to work. I have a big concern for ADE users. ADE uses offsets of airport element positions to draw the display. There are rounding errors that can appear for objects that are way from the ARP. So if the user moves the airport some distance - maybe some thousands of meters then I can see the ADE display becoming less accurate and increasingly different than what is seen in FSX. I don't know how much this might be.

So my bottom line is that the ARP should be moved unless the move fails - that is the airport does not appear to move or the user aircraft gets placed at the old positions, or it duplicates in some way. Then I guess it makes sense to.

Ian - when you say you removed the stock data from fSX are you saying you hacked the stock APX file and removed it? If so that is a bad thing to do.......
 
If you leave the ARP at the stock position, the main problem is, that the airports location on the GPS and the FSX map is wrong.

And yes, I converted the stock APX[number].bgl to xml, removed the airport and compiled it again - Why is that a bad thing to do? I backed up the original one of course..
 
ian727 said:
If you leave the ARP at the stock position, the main problem is, that the airports location on the GPS and the FSX map is wrong.
Click to expand...
You are right and it hurts as well some 3rd-party flight planners reading the FSX files for building up their data base.

And yes, I converted the stock APX[number].bgl to xml, removed the airport and compiled it again - Why is that a bad thing to do? I backed up the original one of course..
Click to expand...
Actually, it very likely breaches Microsoft's EULA. That's what ADE avoids as it just overlays the still existent original files.
 
Jon I suspect that the boss decides what the definition of a 'proper' job is.:D I'm hoping that your thinking about this while working on a 'proper' job did not diminish the end result of the 'proper' job in any way. Is it possible that the folks at LM might be able to provide some insight into how FSX works in regards to moving navaids or airports? Just a thought.

Ed
 
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