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Quest Kodiak float gear question ?

G

gorlosky

Messages
56
Does anyone know anything about the Quest Kodiak ? I'm trying to setup the same float gear combo and I'm not sure what I need to do as it doesn't float right.
Curious also how FSX knows to use the float contact point or the gear contact point.
If you had gear down would you sink if landing on the water ?
Also what is default for landing gear (animation wise), gear up or gear down is key frame 1 ?
 
You tell FS the type of gear (landing gear, floats, etc) in the contact points secetion of the aircraft.cfg

The sequence of data in the contat points section is given in the SDK (do a search on contact points), which explain them in better detail than a quick post response.

For example, teh very first parameter in the data line tells you the type:

1 (1) Class Integer defining the type of contact point:
0 = None,
1 = Wheel,
2 = Scrape,
3 = Skid,
4 = Float,
5 = Water Rudder
 
Hello,

I know a bit about the Kodiak.

The issue on it is that FSX redid their float assignment heights. What happens with the Kodiak is that the float zone assignment and the landing gear height is too close. In FS2004, they were farther apart. What happens is if you adjust the water to the proper height, the pontoons then scrape the tarmac when it lands with normal landing gear. If the landing gear were made inches longer, this problem wouldnt exist, but the plane is already radically high off of the ground, so making it another 5 inches higher would begin to look goofy. Thus the float height and landing gear height settings are the way they are.

This might be why the Dehavilland didnt have a amphib model. The tires would have been sitting pretty high off the ground.

While making the Kodiak, I did increase the tire height a couple of times to compensate for this, and didnt wish to make it 'too' high. In photographs, the main gear of the Kodiak Amphib is very close to the ground with extremely little ground clearence.


If you can find a better solution for it, I would be very interested.



Bill
 
Thanks for the responses:

Curious about a few things:
How does FSX know what to use - tires or floats - is it that FSX knows what surface the craft is over and therefore switches between tire or float contact points ?

Will "gear down" when floating in the water cause any additonal height issues because of the contact points or will "gear down" force the craft to sink ?

Take a look at the image, and guess what height (from the bottom line) I might have to set both float and tire contact points ?
(PS: Just getting it to work is my first priority, getting it to look right will be next)

Each block is 6 inches:
wheelsv.jpg
 
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Also what is default for landing gear (animation wise), gear up or gear down is key frame 1 ?
Click to expand...

Gear up.

BTW, In the Aerosoft Catalina you can (are advised to, actually) lower your LG after hitting the water, for additional braking action.

This may be neither here nor there...
 
How does FSX know what to use - tires or floats - is it that FSX knows what surface the craft is over and therefore switches between tire or float contact points ?
Click to expand...


Ground terrain class tells FSX what ground the aircraft is touching; be it water or dirt or tarmac or grass or snow, etc.

Gear up will state if it will crash and or if it has skid's, contact points (scrape points) and or pontoons or floats.



Bill
 
Thanks

Take a look at the image, and guess what height (from the bottom line) I might have to set both float and tire contact points ?
(PS: Just getting it to work is my first priority, getting it to look right will be next)
 
Not much room...

With FSX, then brought the float and ground contact points much closer, which kills it for accurately having amphibians looking realistic. With FS9, the contact points were far apart and so you never had to worry about this.

Small question; how do you steer it? On the actual Kodiak, they have retractable nose gears that slide out of the front of the floats, then angle down. The nose gear are free castoring wheels for easy turning.


Bill
 
I appreciate the input, but I'm willing to keep fiddling and go non-realistic and maybe get it to work.
I plan on steering via rudder either water or air.

****Bing**** I think a light bulb just when off. Did you think I was trying to change these settings on a Quest ? No. I'm buidling an aircraft in Gmax and wanted to do Tires and Floats and just happened to see such a combo on the Quest.

Presently I can have the craft on the ground and that has no problems.

I tried to make it float and no matter how forward I put the front float points it tips forward like it has no front float points. What is causing this ? Is there an ivisble "Box" around the floats or model that I can't go out of, else the contact point is ineffective ?

Do the float points have to be the first 4 positions in the contact list ?

I even made all 7 (3 gear and 4 float) points all a number 4 (float) and it still tips over forward.

Could you post the contacts points of the Quest ?
 
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Hey Gorlosky,

Here is the Amphibian version Contact Points;

[contact_points]
max_number_of_points = 18
point.0 = 1, 9.8, -4.95, -8.20, 1600, 0, 0.5, 30, 0.15, 2.5, 0.99, 4, 4, 0, 176, 220
point.1 = 1, 9.8, 4.95, -8.20, 1600, 0, 0.5, 30, 0.15, 2.5, 0.99, 4, 4, 1, 176, 220
point.2 = 1, -1.6, -4.95, -8.38, 3600, 1, 0.75, 0, 0.4, 2.5, 0.8, 4, 4, 2, 176, 220
point.3 = 1, -1.6, 4.95, -8.38, 3600, 2, 0.75, 0, 0.4, 2.5, 0.8, 4, 4, 3, 176, 220
point.4 = 4, 5, -5.05, -7.74, 1600, 0, 0, 0, 0.85, 2.5, 0.85, 0, 0, 0
point.5 = 4, 5, 5.05, -7.74, 1600, 0, 0, 0, 0.85, 2.5, 0.85, 0, 0, 1
point.6 = 4, -5, -5.05, -7.64, 1600, 0, 0, 30, 0.95, 2.5, 0.85, 0, 0, 2
point.7 = 4, -5, 5.05, -7.64, 1600, 0, 0, 30, 0.95, 2.5, 0.85, 0, 0, 3
point.8 = 2, 12.4, 0, -0.5, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4
point.9 = 2, -18.7, 0, -0.6, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 9
point.10 = 2, -20, 0, 7.8, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 7
point.11 = 2, -2.7, -22.5, 3, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5
point.12 = 2, -2.7, 22.5, 3, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6
point.13 = 5, -10.4, -5.25, -4.0, 1600, 0, 0, 50, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1.2, 0
point.14 = 5, -10.4, 5.25, -4.0, 1600, 0, 0, 50, 0, 0, 1, 1.1, 1.5, 0
point.15 = 2, 3.8, 0, -2.9, 3000, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4
point.16 = 2, -2.5, 0, -2.8, 3000, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4
point.17 = 2, 12, 0, -4, 50, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4


Version 2 points are scrapes, I believe, and version 5 points are water rudders.

It sounds like you have a CG issue, 'Center of Gravity'. For instance, I am making a plane and presently just got it into FS. But it keeps flipping forward on the ground. I think that when you get your balance set properly, it will sit fine in the water.

If I were you, make sure the fuel, passengers, any weight locations, are properly located (in the config file) and then make sure your airplane in the scene has the Grid line passing just behind your wings leading edges. Thats usually 'near' the location of your CG point.

Milton is the master in explaining balance on an aircraft for FS. He should chime in if this is indeed the issue on your plane tipping forward.



Bill
 
Got it - I see that after looking at your Quest, I had my static compression less then my damping....she floats now ....:)
 
Lionheart....

You had asked how I was going to steer when on water and I planned on using the aircraft rudders, but that does not give me enough steering.

I wanted to add some water rudders, but can't quite figure out which ones to use. Do I Animate with lever_water_rudder, or l_water_rudder_key and r_water_rudder_key ???

Do I also have to add something to the aircraft.cfg (other then new contact points of class=5) ???

Will FSX know that if the craft is on the water, then use the water rudders to steer ???
 
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Hey Gorlosky,


You had asked how I was going to steer when on water and I planned on using the aircraft rudders, but that does not give me enough steering.

Roger, it will not.

I wanted to add some water rudders, but can't quite figure out which ones to use. Do I Animate with lever_water_rudder, or l_water_rudder_key and r_water_rudder_key ???

If you are using Gmax or Max, you would use l_water_rudder_key and animate the turns of the rudder if you are going to show water rudders on your model and want them to animate. They will have no bearing on how well your model turns though. That is done in the config.

Do I also have to add something to the aircraft.cfg (other then new contact points of class=5) ???

Nope. Only that area, class 5, (in FSX). Also, to adjust the amount of turn, you adjust them just like wheel turning angle, same section in the contact string(s). To clarify, wheel steering angle is adjusted 'in' the Class 5 contact strings for adjusting water rudders.

Will FSX know that if the craft is on the water, then use the water rudders to steer ???

Yes.

Hope that helps,

Bill
 
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