• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

P3D v2 Should photoreal images follow a size guideline?

Hi Jim:

Perhaps it is due to the challenge of tracking IMHO evolving topically-related content in the OP's several concurrent threads, but I am concerned that I am encountering references to P3D2 in this specific thread by the OP regarding: :scratchch

"Should photoreal images follow a size guideline?"

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/should-photoreal-images-follow-a-size-guideline.431618/

In an admittedly uncharacteristic attempt on my part to formulate answers to the OP's posts on specific aspects of what one might view as a general overall topical "evolving subject" spread across several concurrent topically-related threads initiated by the OP, I am in ONLY this thread offering an answer which, IMHO, offers helpful info to the OP on the topic ....of ONLY this thread. :alert:

Would you be so kind as to point out to me exactly where in this specific thread, any reference to P3D2 has been made thus far by the OP ? :confused:


BTW: Many thanks for taking the time to share the helpful clarifications (with "worked examples") ...as to what end users might encounter when running FS SDK ImageTool with certain command switches.

It's good, IMO, to have more info made available on the otherwise undocumented features and options of FS SDK utilites such as ImageTool. :)

PS: I have edited my posts above, substituting 'more detailed' for '-verbose' where it had previously been used ...to avoid any end user confusion as to proper use of the "-verbose" command switch for FS SDK ImageTool. ;)

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
GaryGB said:
And I do appreciate that these forums provide the opportunity for all to offer their own answers to queries by OP's "undependently" (-which although my FireFox Spell Checker complains bitterly, I cheerfully accept with good intentions as an acceptable word IIUC, referring to 'independently' posting one's contributions to a discussion ...which was my point in the first part of my last reply above): :duck:
Click to expand...
I can't help it, I am dyslexic :wave:
 
After "a long day at the SDK", we might all find ourselves fixing typos when we can finally get some time to look back through our own posts ! :D

GaryGB
 
JRobinson said:
The thread is tagged "P3D v2" Gary.
Click to expand...

Yup... there it is... big, green, and staring me right in the face ! :yikes: :laughing:

Thanks again for your kind clarification. :tapedshut

Apparently, I too, "have a full year's worth of beer drinking/barbequing to get taken care of" before the onset of Winter (hopefully not as much of a "Hard_Winter" as the last one. :cool:

GaryGB
 
JRobinson said:
"IMHO" (and from a bit of practical experience) Imagetool has no relevance to this conversation about P3D2 terrain, it may have had relevance to a conversation about FS9 photoreal where the output from resample.exe was in .tga format in which case Imagetool could be used with the -terrainphoto switch to output .bmps for the texture folder, still however, "IMHO" Imagetool has no practical application when speaking of source imagery.

Jim
Click to expand...

Hi again, Jim:

I was intrigued by your opinion that ImageTool "has no relevance to this conversation about P3D2 terrain", so I thought I should ask:

Were you referring specifically to use of ImageTool with "-terrain" or "-terrainphoto" (or other switches reportedly giving 'same' results) ?

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...s-follow-a-size-guideline.431618/#post-689024

"-terrain ...Output a bitmap to be used as a terrain texture file.

This is the same as using the following switches:
-border ...to create a 1 pixel border around the image
-tile ...to indicate this image self tiles
-mip ...to create mip maps
-DXT1 ...to change the format to DXT1


terrainphoto ...Output a bitmap to be used as a terrain photo texture file.

This is the same as using the following switches:
-hasborder ...the image already has a 1 pixel border
-mip ...to create mip maps
-DXT1 ...to change the format to DXT1"



FYI: A Google query on this turned up:

* A December 2013 AVSIM thread wherein you indicated (at that time) you were utilizing ImageTool with files intended for use with P3D v2.x:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/429467-mipmaps-actually-work-right-pictures/page-3


* Some Prepar3d SDK "documentation" related to LM's "ImageTool" (not sure if it's different from the FSX version)

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDK/Environment Kit/Terrain SDK/Terrain and Scenery.html

"Notes on Acquiring Raw Terrain Imagery

More than likely, the image you want to use will be an aerial or satellite photo. The raw image must be either a 24-bit per pixel Windows .bmp file or a 32-bit per pixel Targa .tga file. For some file formats, you can use Imagetool to convert the image into the desired format. It is assumed that the image has been projected to the WGS84 Latitude/Longitude datum. The latitude and longitude of the northwest corner of the image must be known as well as the spacing (in decimal degrees) between the image pixels.



To add reflective water effects to an image, you must use the 32-bit per pixel Targa .tga format. The resampler tool uses the 8-bit alpha channel of the image to determine the location of water and land in the image. The alpha value of water and land pixels must be 0 and 255 respectively.

The north/south extent of each terrain texture pixel is about 1.19 meters in Prepar3D®. The resampling process will filter the raw image to the right size.

• If the raw image is more than 1.19 meters per pixel (low resolution), the final result may appear blurry.
• If the raw image is less than 1.19 meters per pixel (high resolution), some fine details might be lost"


...which compelled me to inquire (since I do not 'yet' have the P3Dv2 SDK):

[EDITED]

Knowing from other forum threads that you are a Prepar3d v2.x user, would you please be so kind < again :whiteflag > to share with us any info you may have about whether there is something not yet publicly documented (and aside from the above "terrain-related" command switches purportedly having "no practical application when speaking of source imagery" for P3Dv2) ...which otherwise contra-indicates use of P3Dv2 SDK ImageTool for purposes of ex: processing aerial imagery for use as "source" files for P3D SDK Resample ? :scratchch

[END_EDIT]


Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and practical insights (clearly based on extensive experience) with us. :)

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
There are no photo textures associated with an FSX/P3D photoreal as there was in FS9, they are packed into the .bgl by resample so there's no processing to do once the photoreal has been compiled. To my knowledge -terrainphoto is obsolete beyond FS9, -terrain should probably still be used when converting landclass textures, i.e 056b2su1.bmp, 024b2su1.bmp, etc.

GaryGB said:
"-terrain ...Output a bitmap to be used as a terrain texture file.

This is the same as using the following switches:
-border ...to create a 1 pixel border around the image
-tile ...to indicate this image self tiles
-mip ...to create mip maps
-DXT1 ...to change the format to DXT1


terrainphoto ...Output a bitmap to be used as a terrain photo texture file.

This is the same as using the following switches:
-hasborder ...the image already has a 1 pixel border
-mip ...to create mip maps
-DXT1 ...to change the format to DXT1"
Click to expand...

I'd be very interested to know where you found that, those types of details about some of the other switches could be very valuable.


When I say "Imagetool has no relevance to this thread" I mean it has no practical use in working with source imagery, I'm talking about the huge 20,000px x 15,000px source geotifs, tifs, .bmps, or whatever format they are in whether for FS9, FSX, or P3D2. There's no reason to do any conversions on those (except to WGS84 in the case of NAD83 which we do with gdalwarp), PhotoShop is perfectly capable of outputting a number of formats that resample can read, "powers of two" is meaningless at the raw imagery stage, the sources can be any size or proportions as long as reample knows the coords of the upper left corner and # of px/m. Resample sorts it all out and packs whatever it sees fit into the photoreal .bgl, it just works when you drop it into an active scenery folder.

For some file formats, you can use Imagetool to convert the image into the desired format.
Click to expand...

What could those formats possibly be? I don't know of any GIS source that distributes satellite imagery in .dds format? Imagetool won't open a .jp2? Imagetool won't open a .tif? Isn't that a pretty good indication that we're speaking outside the realm of what Imagetool was actually intended to do? Frankly I can't think of a common GIS format where Imagetool could be used to "convert the image into the desired format"? Imagetool is for converting textures that are destined for an FS texture folder...

GaryGB said:
FYI: A Google query on this turned up:

* A December 2013 AVSIM thread wherein you indicated (at that time) you were utilizing ImageTool with files intended for use with P3D v2.x:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/429467-mipmaps-actually-work-right-pictures/page-3
Click to expand...


I use Imagetool all the time, sometimes hundreds of times per day with both FSX and P3D2 textures, I never use it with photoreal source imagery in the context of resampled photoreal however. I might use it if I was to crop a random 1024 x 1024 px chunk from a geotiff and use it to texture a backdrop for a gmax model. (providing the license allowed for that, of course! :D )


Jim
 
Hi Jim:

Thanks again for your informative reply. ;)

GaryGB said:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...s-follow-a-size-guideline.431618/#post-689024

"-terrain ...Output a bitmap to be used as a terrain texture file.

This is the same as using the following switches:
-border ...to create a 1 pixel border around the image
-tile ...to indicate this image self tiles
-mip ...to create mip maps
-DXT1 ...to change the format to DXT1


terrainphoto ...Output a bitmap to be used as a terrain photo texture file.

This is the same as using the following switches:
-hasborder ...the image already has a 1 pixel border
-mip ...to create mip maps
-DXT1 ...to change the format to DXT1"


GaryGB
Click to expand...

JRobinson said:
I'd be very interested to know where you found that, those types of details about some of the other switches could be very valuable.
Jim
Click to expand...


I have edited my post above in an effort to make it more clear "where and how" I accessed this info derived from FSX SDK ImageTool:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...s-follow-a-size-guideline.431618/#post-689024


Hope this helps ! :)

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
Hi George:

I believe it would be appropriate for me to offer an apology for characterizing the method you used to generate the ImageTool help output as having been via the "-brief" command switch.

It was an inappropriate assumption and assertion arising from a misinterpretation on my part. :oops:


I have edited my post above in a effort to minimize any misinformation which might have originally been conveyed. :pushpin:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...s-follow-a-size-guideline.431618/#post-689084


GaryGB
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top