Struggling With Rivers, etc.

[bdarling]

Hello,

I'm really new to developing scenery and I am struggling with landclass issues. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction. I'm currently creating a slew of seaplane bases in Washington State and the base that is giving me the most trouble is Snake River. Snake river is about 218 meters AGL and I am only trying to replace a small section of the river adjacent to the seaplane base, but I can't match my river hydroclass with the default FSX altitude mesh correctly. Here's what I have tried so far:

1) Created a polygon to define the default river_perennial exclusion area. (clamped to ground)
2) Copied the above area and tagged it as a shoreline exclusion area. (clamped to ground)
3) Copied the above area again and tagged it as river_perennial (218m, absolute altitude)

The result is that most of the default river has totally disappeared beyond the boundaries of my exclusion poly except for the small section I defined as a river. Another problem I foresee, once I get the default river back, is that the two water levers (where I defined a river and where the default river starts) will be at different altitudes. So my question: how can I more accurately overlay a modified section of river that cuts into some of the surrounding terrain while still blending smoothly into the default river?

Thanks for reading.

-Blake

 

[Mace]

Your post is confusing.

If the default Snake River is built with polygons, then I would:
1) load the relevant default .bgl in TMFViewer, and see what poly(s) of the default snake river needed removing, and see what GUID they were so I knew what to exclude.
2) exclude the default river polys using one or more exclude tagged polys
3) Open GE and draw out the new river poly(s), tagging with a tag that does not go with the terrain mesh. Probably Hydro_Polygons_River_Perennial or whatever that one is. I would not use Legacy hydro.
I have best results with manually specifying altitude on the river polys, and make multiple segments to account for the changes in elevation. Yes, it makes "steps" but these are hardly noticeable if done properly, and the effect is much nice than a river that moves all over the place sitting on mesh terrain. Even high-res mesh has unrealistic pits and bumps in it.
4) run thru FS_kml and go


If the default Snake River is NOT built with polygons where I was working, I would:
1) exclude the stream
2) Open GE and draw out my new river poly(s), tagging with the tag that DOES NOT go with the terrain mesh. As above..
3) run thru fs_kml and enjoy

 

[HolgerSandmann]

Hi there,

exclusions in FSX are clipped to QMID 11 (except freeways), which explains why a larger chunk of your river disappears than wanted. TMFViewer allows you to show the QMID11 grid, use that to determine the required extent of your replacement.

It is possible to create sloped hydro polys (using the SlopeX and SlopeY parameters) but the process is rather confusing. SBuilder for FSX - http://www.ptsim.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=915 - offers the ability to specify those parameters.

However, FSX will also read FS2004-style LWM3 (sloped flatten) polys so you could create your river section with SBuilder for FS9 and then use the compiled LMW3.bgl in FSX.

Cheers, Holger

 

[MatthewS]

You could also use LEGACY_LANDWATERMASK_WATER_NOFLATTEN for your river. This will make the river cling to the mesh.

In the next version (1.06) I'm adding the ability for parameters to be added to tags, eg SlopeX, SlopeY, Elevation, Freeway data (number of lanes, direction) etc.

Talking about QMID 11, does anyone have any code as for how to generate a QMID 11 grid. I would like to have a button which inserts a QMID 11 grid into your KML project, and so this would make it easy to see what areas will be affected by exclusions.

 

[HolgerSandmann]

Hi Matthew,

the calculations for QMID grids are the same as for LOD grids, just with a value offset (i.e., QMID11 equals LOD9, etc.)

For formulae see http://home.earthlink.net/~smgreenwood/lod-calc.shtml

I appreciate that you're planning to add those poly and vector tags to FSX_KML, particularly altitude.

What I meant to say about the SlopeX, SlopeY pairs is that I don't think it's helpful to have in a tool unless there's an algorithm that actually computes those values for the user. That is, the user would tag the min and max elevations for specific points at the polygon and the algorithm computes the necessary values. Perhaps Doug would be willing to share the algorithm ACES used for their sloped polys.

Cheers, Holger

 

[bdarling]

Thanks for the help. So, if I follow this correctly, my exclusion applies to the entire QMID 11 sector, regardless of the size of my exclusion poly? If this is the case, it sounds like I just need to add the rest of the river that is missing by hand. I was playing with the idea of using the LEGACY_LANDWATERMASK_WATER_NOFLATTEN landclass, but I didn't want my harbor going on a hike up the hillside. Thanks again.

-Blake

 

[MatthewS]

So, if I follow this correctly, my exclusion applies to the entire QMID 11 sector, regardless of the size of my exclusion poly? If this is the case, it sounds like I just need to add the rest of the river that is missing by hand.

Yes, that's it... It's a pain but thats how FSX handles exclusion polys. I think it's like this for performance reasons.

 

[MatthewS]

the calculations for QMID grids are the same as for LOD grids, just with a value offset (i.e., QMID11 equals LOD9, etc.)

For formulae see http://home.earthlink.net/~smgreenwood/lod-calc.shtml

Thanks Holger!

 

[DougMatthews]

Thanks for the help. So, if I follow this correctly, my exclusion applies to the entire QMID 11 sector, regardless of the size of my exclusion poly? If this is the case, it sounds like I just need to add the rest of the river that is missing by hand. I was playing with the idea of using the LEGACY_LANDWATERMASK_WATER_NOFLATTEN landclass, but I didn't want my harbor going on a hike up the hillside. Thanks again.

-Blake

There is an optional argument to the Shp2Vec SDK tool, I think it is -ADDTOCELLS.

If the optional argument is omitted, your bgl file will suppress all intersecting QMID11 from other lower priority bgls.

If the optional argument is included, your exclusion applies to any target shape whose bounding box intersects the bounding box of your exclusion.

I am not sure how (or if) FSX KML handles this argument.

-Doug

 

[MatthewS]

I am not sure how (or if) FSX KML handles this argument.
-Doug

FSX_KML generates a file called Run_SDK_Tools.Bat. In that file I use the -ADDTOCELLS option, however if desired you can edit the file before you run it.

Maybe I should add it as an option in FSX_KML, ie to use -ADDTOCELLS or not.

 

[José]

Hi, Mathews

Talking about QMID 11, does anyone have any code as for how to generate a QMID 11 grid.

I created an excel worksheet to calculate the four corners's coordinates of any LOD, from LOD 13 to LOD 5. The only trouble is that my excel is Portuguese version.

The zipped file is attached.

To use, you should enter a pair of coordinates an select the lod size you want. You'll get the four corners coordinates. As you know, from one lod corner's coordinate to another should be added a little gap (horizontally and vertically - about +/-0.0000000001) to separate one from the other.)

Regards,

José

 

[MatthewS]

I created an excel worksheet to calculate the four corners's coordinates of any LOD, from LOD 13 to LOD 5. The only trouble is that my excel is Portuguese version.

The zipped file is attached.

Thanks for this, it will be very useful!

 

[Mace]

You could also use LEGACY_LANDWATERMASK_WATER_NOFLATTEN for your river. This will make the river cling to the mesh.

That is the tag I mentioned above.

The problem with the legacy water is that it's only as good as your mesh terrain, and even hi-res mesh terrain has bumps and pits in it.

Your water will not be totally smooth unless it has a flatten of some sort in it.

Freeway data (number of lanes, direction) etc.

Oh... I just figured a person would make one freeway line with points in one direction, and then another line with reverse points for opposite direction traffic.

I wasn't quite sure how that was implemented in the sim. It appears that these data had the entrys of "T" and "F" (whatever those mean) for varying traffic directions but I did not get into it further...