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Texture distorted after export to FSX via ModelConverterX

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france
Good Morning

I have found something strange: One of my texture which looks fine in MCX appears in FSX totally distorted:

View in MCX
screenshot_20180327_124738.jpg


View from FSX
screenshot_20180327_115733.jpg

Its is the one of the rotonda on the extreme left which has its twin on the other extremity of the terminal. Moreover when you load the DAE and check the textures in the editor, it states that the dimensions of the image used is 898x817 px while in reality it was already 1024x1024 as defined when I loaded and modified the original image in Photoshop Pro 2018!???
Any idea what happens. When I checked the different textures I decided to have them all resized by MCX without checking the original file used originally in Sketchup. So I assumed the error message was consistent....
The same problem appears here on the facade of the terminal on the second floor.In this second instance MCX has resized the original file which needed to be, so it appears that the distortion happens randomly....
View in MCX:
screenshot_20180327_124952correct.jpg


After compiling and loading in FSX:
screenshot_20180327_124922Distorted.jpg


Thx for any solution.
Claude
 
Hi,

Given that you see different texture sizes, I think there might be some confusing about different textures used. Typically you have your source texture that you make in a tool like Photoshop. There are then loaded into SketchUp. When you export your model from SketchUp a copy of the textures will be made and placed in a folder with the DAE file. MCX will read this copy. So if you change your source texture afterwards, this copy is not updated. Then you have a third copy of the texture and that's the one in the texture folder of your scenery.

Did you use MCX to convert the textures to DDS for use in FS or did you do that otherwise? If you used MCX what you see in the preview and in FS should align.
 
I am guessing it is a Sketchup model in which Claude used the same texture in different places, with multiple mappings. If this is the case, the simplest way to prevent it is to never move the yellow pin when aligning textures in Sketchup and if you must move that pin, then you must use that same projection/mapping for all instances of that texture.
 
Hi,

Given that you see different texture sizes, I think there might be some confusing about different textures used. Typically you have your source texture that you make in a tool like Photoshop. There are then loaded into SketchUp. When you export your model from SketchUp a copy of the textures will be made and placed in a folder with the DAE file. MCX will read this copy. So if you change your source texture afterwards, this copy is not updated. Then you have a third copy of the texture and that's the one in the texture folder of your scenery.

Did you use MCX to convert the textures to DDS for use in FS or did you do that otherwise? If you used MCX what you see in the preview and in FS should align.


Hi Arno,

Here is how I worked; let's focus on the rotunda.

I've built the cylinder and placed it in Sketchup. I set the texture from a picture from googleEarth of this part of the terminal and transformed with Photoshop the picture eliminating all that was not necessary and having it formatted 1024x1024px on a jpeg.

With the projected texture method I had the texture positioned on the cylinder and using the position option set it precisely as I wished it.
Here is the result in Sketchup:
rotonda in sketchup.jpg

I then exported the terminal in the DAE format to MCX.
Here is the result in MCX:
screenshot_20180327_124738.jpg


I did not touche anything in MCX, was satisfied with my model and the Cylinder/Rotonda as it appears with the view attached on my previous post shows the texture quite rignt. There's only one little problem with door which I did not notice in the original view in GoogleEartj which is probably a shadow from a tree not far from the wall.

Having followed your directions concerning DIrectx after resizing the textures that were not matching the power 2 obligation,in MCX, I exported the model to FSX. And here you have the second picture showing the Rotonda with the texture completely distorted. My Textures are in DDS format after the transfer to FSX by MCX.
And here is the result viewed in FSX:
FSX result.jpg


I did so for the whole model. The textures presenting a problem are unique and used only once in the model but for the one used on the rotunda as they are two of them one on each side of the terminal as well the extremities of the terminal on each side which actually are perfectly transferred from on program to the other.

Hope this is clear.

Claude
 
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I am guessing it is a Sketchup model in which Claude used the same texture in different places, with multiple mappings. If this is the case, the simplest way to prevent it is to never move the yellow pin when aligning textures in Sketchup and if you must move that pin, then you must use that same projection/mapping for all instances of that texture.

This could be perhaps the reason for the rotonda texture Rick, but all the others are unique. So why do I have a problem with those ones?
Claude
 
Understood. Could you not format your textures first to the proper dimensional ratio and then project them onto your model? I still think it is a matter of Sketchup recording mappings that aren't accepted by the simulator, but unless you absolutely needed to work with the textures in original format, doing the conversion first would either prevent the distortion, or help eliminate the MCX conversion process as the cause.
 
Claude,

I use Sketchup 8. For that reason I doubt that I can help you.

I suggest that if it is possible, for you to attach your Sketchup file to this, or to your thread about this problem in the Sketchup forum.

It would make it much easier for someone to try to help you.
 
Understood. Could you not format your textures first to the proper dimensional ratio and then project them onto your model? I still think it is a matter of Sketchup recording mappings that aren't accepted by the simulator, but unless you absolutely needed to work with the textures in original format, doing the conversion first would either prevent the distortion, or help eliminate the MCX conversion process as the cause.

But that's what I did for the rotonda but NOWHERE are you told to have power 2 ratios for use in FSX; it's when you execute MCX that during the import of the DAE file the message appears with errorrs and it's cause in MCX. At that moment you have finalized the object in Sketchup and don't think it's a problem as you're offered IN MCX to resize the image. If it is useless why propose it!

One must be rational, if it can be a problem during the export from MCX to FSX then forbid the operation and oblige the user to go back to Sketchup or whatever software you used to create the object and correct it.

The developer has to put himself in place of the user and not assume that the user is as much skilled than himself.

Arno is a great developer there's no discussion about that but obviously thought that his users would be at the same level of knowledge. This will never be the case in view of the wide scope of users of FSX. And it happens that some like myself are interested in increasing their knowledge....Even at 76!:)

If I may make a suggestion to Arno it is to modify the program in that sense. There's a rule in all matters one has to adapt to the less knowledgeable, less skilled user. This is true in hiking and anywhere else.

If you do not so you expose the user to problems if he is not for instance a professional of the job. I'm not a professional, I don't pretend to be and could not guess that such a mandatory formatting was required. I'm not a kind of a fortune teller; sorry for this missing aptitude! Nobody's perfect....LOL!
 
Claude,

I use Sketchup 8. For that reason I doubt that I can help you.

I suggest that if it is possible, for you to attach your Sketchup file to this, or to your thread about this problem in the Sketchup forum.


It would make it much easier for someone to try to help you.

Thanks Dave

So we're both users of Sketchup 8! How to you choose in this instance to post in Sketchup or in MCX when the problem occurs in MCX and that the transfer from Sketchup to DAE went without a hitch!? Again logic drives you to MCX where the problem occurred.

In this instance, if the power 2 ratio is the real cause of my problem which obviously occurs randomly, I'll to do the whole texturing of three or four faces because in Sketchup when you change the appearance of a texture in Photoshop for instance, the Material function of Sketchup doesn't update the file! Even if you close the program run it again!
 
But that's what I did for the rotonda but NOWHERE are you told to have power 2 ratios for use in FSX; it's when you execute MCX that during the import of the DAE file the message appears with errorrs and it's cause in MCX. At that moment you have finalized the object in Sketchup and don't think it's a problem as you're offered IN MCX to resize the image. If it is useless why propose it!

One must be rational, if it can be a problem during the export from MCX to FSX then forbid the operation and oblige the user to go back to Sketchup or whatever software you used to create the object and correct it.
I have to apologize, perhaps it is a matter of translation. To me this doesn't make much sense at all. The texture ratio is a requirement of the MSFS render engine. The ratio has nothing to do with MCX functionality, but it is an absolute fact that if the textures are not formatted to the exact ratio, they will fail in the simulator.
Claude, it is a simple (relatively simple in terms of a scenery developers development) operation to take all your intended textures and format them first using the texture editor. If you have any difficulty at all, you can export the model as a Collada, same way you send it to MCX, but instead import this .dae back into Sketchup.

Sketchup has made it incredibly easy for designers to run right up to the point where they can't get their building to show up in FSX, before they call for help. Previously, one had to establish a level of familiarity with something called the "SDK" and convenience has replaced that term with "MCX and Sketchup." Ok, but convenience did not create the simulator. MCX, Claude, is a shell. In essence, it is a glorified Command Line application. A command line that has a render window and some limited mouse functionality. Arno did not make the rule about 2X textures and he did not create the software that imposes it. MCX simply makes it easier, by calling the specific tools from the SDK that we require through our operations - but MCX was never intended to substitute for trade knowledge and I think it is a testament to Arno's skill that people can allow themselves to assume otherwise.
The developer has to put himself in place of the user and not assume that the user is as much skilled than himself.

Arno is a great developer there's no discussion about that but obviously thought that his users would be at the same level of knowledge. This will never be the case in view of the wide scope of users of FSX. And it happens that some like myself are interested in increasing their knowledge....Even at 76!:)

If I may make a suggestion to Arno it is to modify the program in that sense. There's a rule in all matters one has to adapt to the less knowledgeable, less skilled user. This is true in hiking and anywhere else.
You are making incredible assumptions here which I won't even speak to, but will go so far to say that your perspective is very, very narrowly focused on your experience as a new user, fine. I am here to tell you that as a relative newcomer of 3 or 4 years, the nature of issues, discoveries and development is far, far beyond the level of properly aligning textures onto a polygon. So, while it might be frustrating that your meteoric entry into flight sim development encountered a little friction when it encountered the atmosphere if the SDK, Arno's calm, clear reason serves as an excellent ground control. My suggestion is that you relax, soak in some of the SDK understanding, that stands for software development kit, ask your very intelligent and informed questions and I promise, Arno will help you land your building squarely on the ground, exactly where it belongs and exactly as you intend. I can say this because I've been around long enough to have seen it happen before, many times in fact.

Now another solution to try is to save your textures to .bmp. It is a little tedious to explain all this to you because so many developers learn this as they go. Let's join that path. "DDS" is a proprietary format. Lot's of software uses it, including FSX. The DDS transcription software that Arno sourced, explored and incorporated into MCX requires power of 2 formatting. Ok this works for FSX, but textures in FSX can also be power of one (1024x1024, 2048x1048, etc.) and there is nothing about the simulator that requires .dds textures. We simply use them because they were not available for FS9, we are progressive thinkers and they are more efficient than .bmp. and as I wrote above, if you do not format your textures, they will fail. However, It is my sincere suggestion that in this special case, .dds is not more efficient, at all. Exporting to .bmp avoids the whole power 2x (non)issue and allows you to see what's next on the path of solutions.

Ultimately Claude, you are encountering limitations with the SDK and since MCX so seamlessly conceals the .exe's and .dll's of the SDK, it seems that MCX is the limiting factor. My solutions are intended to give you more exposure to this transition so you can fully understand and compensate and in closing, I will return to my original assertion: Sketchup is able to arrange and preserve texture mappings that aren't supported by the simulator. This is not a shortcoming of MCX, nor the responsibility of Arno. A developer must apprise himself of what is allowed and endeavor to provide it.
 
In this instance, if the power 2 ratio is the real cause of my problem which obviously occurs randomly, I'll to do the whole texturing of three or four faces because in Sketchup when you change the appearance of a texture in Photoshop for instance, the Material function of Sketchup doesn't update the file! Even if you close the program run it again!
I did not see this paragraph before. We already know that power 2x is not the cause of the problem and I've given you a technique above from which to discover that. This message is to address your understanding of Sketchup. A .skp file contains all necessary information about a model, including textures. Many 3d software formats store the textures separately, as does Collada. Some people assume Sketchup does the same, so it can allow one to think that when a graphics editing software modifies a texture, then it is permanently edited. This is not hte case with Sketchup files.
Sketchup functionality allows the user to assign a graphics program and if you select a texture, you can send it to your chosen editor, perform the edit, close the document and have it render into the Sketchup scene. I myself use layered Photoshop image files, the path I described only re-imports Photoshop .jpg. Sketchup WILL render layered Photoshop .psd files and one can easily update those in an active Sketchup session. Simply select a texture to edit, as before, but do not send it to your graphics editor. Do the editing in Photoshop, save it in layers as a .psd and then from Sketchup, use the replace function, navigate to your .psd, identical to the previous, except for the edits - and import that into the Sketchup session. To borrow a term; voila.
 
Ok! OK! Rick I have it all wrong but that probably explains why I was so successful in software development between 1972 and 2001, was the head of a time developers in a company dedicated to software development in France and finished with return on investment with my models of 600 millions Euros with one of France major merchant banks, Banque Paribas who by the way has been responsible for financing the Trans-Siberian railway and was the first to implement international deals on the first European Community currency! You know sometimes the greatest scientists welcome advice or points of views of down to earth newbies like myself and they don't feel insulted or diminished in any way.....

Claude
 
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Hi Claude,

MCX offers the warning about the texture size to let the developer know that if he continues FS will not be able to display the textures. But since the textures have to be converted since FS doesn't use jpg or png, the resizing can also be done when converting to dds. It's not required to go back to Sketchup to solve it, although it's easier to start development with the texture size in mind.

Does the texture also look distorted if you open the dds that MCX made? Then we know if the texture is the problem or something else.
 
Hi Claude:

Would you 'please' attach- or link to- in this thread:

* A ZIP archive of your example TFFR terminal 3D model in question, exported from Sketchup as a Collada *.DAE ?

...and:

* A ZIP archive of your example TFFR terminal 3D model in question, exported from MCX as:

1.) A \Scenery folder with 1 or more BGLs exported by MCX containing the MDL and placement information

...and:

2.) A \Texture folder containing all Material texture images exported by MCX (in "Powers of 2" format, re-mapped onto the MDL by MCX)

[EDITED]

Thanks in advance for expediting a properly-informed troubleshooting process that minimizes speculation and "educated guessing" (...by providing the requested files needed to offer 1 or more solutions for you to resolve the anomalies you reported in your opening post for this thread). :)

[END_EDIT]

Regards,

GaryGB

(Please click the link below)

 
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My god! I have given all the information possible,"properly-informed troubleshooting process that minimizes speculation and "educated guessing"! One has just to read! I'll solve the problem alone! THX.
 
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Ok! OK! Rick I have it all wrong but that probably explains why I was so successful in software development between 1972 and 2001, was the head of a time developers in a company dedicated to software development in France and finished with return on investment with my models of 600 millions Euros with one of France major merchant banks, Banque Paribas who by the way has been responsible for financing the Trans-Siberian railway and was the first to implement international deals on the first European Community currency! You know sometimes the greatest scientists welcome advice or points of views of down to earth newbies like myself and they don't feel insulted or diminished in any way.....

Claude
1972 I was 11, I'd get to do my first time sharing on the Lawrence Livermore main frame two years later. It is probably less common for older scientists to welcome advice, so I am going to go ahead and assume that you will decide of your own free will to try .bmp textures instead of .dds to learn that it is not the .dds conversion process that causes the distortion.

Another likely cause is that you have already used this particular texture in another model, mapped differently. MCX does not overwrite textures by default and if the reused texture is the cause and you force MCX to overwrite, then the distortion will show up on the other model.
 
Another likely cause is that you have already used this particular texture in another model, mapped differently. MCX does not overwrite textures by default and if the reused texture is the cause and you force MCX to overwrite, then the distortion will show up on the other model.

Rick It's the first time I use MCX. It's the first time I try to build a model for FSX. All 3D models I've more or less developed were done either using DAZ studio or Video Copilot Element 3 D for the editing of my little movie which is a compilation of my different trips to Pompeii and Herculaneum between 1958 and 2015. I use for this Adobe Creative Cloud's After Effects, Premiere Pro, Audition Pro and of course Photoshop plus different addons either by VideoCopilot or Red GIant and Neat Video.

Yes Time sharing was my first access to database and computers, ValueLine for financial accounts of US companies. I used to develop my programs with APL+ a fantastic language based on Matrix. If you don't know it check here APL- A Programming Language .At that time we were a few lunatics who thought the computers and software would change the world of Finance in Paris!

I'm furious with the reactions I get here. It seems I'm asked questions I've already answered and that people can't read.

Perhaps my English is not sufficiently good for some. Sorry I do what I can...I don't go to the States as much as I would like too. I used to travel there at least twice a year when I was in my bank. I probably know the Southwest better than Americans as my friend director of the Grand Canyon Field Institute says. GCN was my place to retire inside the canyon for 5 or 6 days each year in the spring in remote places where few hikers go, far from the crowds on the rim.

So you see I"m a complex guy...Not the usual cliché that my fellow compatriots are supposed to be from the US point of view.
 
Hi Claude,

All the long posts by various people in this thread are also distracting to me, I feel some more focus is needed on analyzing the problem. So let me repeat a question I asked earlier:

Does the texture also look distorted if you open the dds that MCX made? Then we know if the texture is the problem or something else.

By comparing the JPG/PNG files of SketchUp with the DDS files of FS can you check if they were converted correctly. If the DDS files are wrong MCX might have a bug.

But with only screenshots from MCX and FS and without seeing the actual files it is hard to give you other advice now.
 
By comparing the JPG/PNG files of SketchUp with the DDS files of FS can you check if they were converted correctly. If the DDS files are wrong MCX might have a bug.

Honestly Arno do you think that I'm such a fool not to have done so! Of course I have done so, I know exactly not only the number of textures which went wrong but also those who went right. That was the first thing I did and I also compared the thumbnails which appear in the window before you decide to have the texture resized. And in view that 12 out 16 textures had to be as I'm lazy I decided to have them all resized and among those were the three which present a flaw in FSX .

Yes I know that MCX converts to DSS the textures because I was curious to check the texture folder in my new scenery and texture folder concerned. Yes I have a brain and I'm not yet with alzheimer or any kind of mental deficiency, even being French!

And by way I suggest that in your videos you speak a little slower because you're always easy to understand.

Sorry but I don't use SMS cellular way of writing. I'm of the generation which can write in plain French or English without using all the time anachronisms.

I may sound rude but sorry my patience has its limits when constantly I find myself on the bench of the accused!

So don't worry I'm a big boy and will find the way to solve my problem.

Claude
 
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