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FSX VC Shadows

J

Javis

Messages
56
Country
netherlands
Goodday gentlemen,

I was hoping someone here could shine a light at FSX/DX10 VC shadows. They do show up in my VC but they look pretty cheesy. Very unnatural. When i let the model make slow 360's in Slew mode shadows of all kinds of 'loose parts' are floating about the cockpit like if it has no walls and roof.

I have checked 'Volume shadow' for every texture that is used for the VC walls and roof but that doesn't seem to matter (3dsmax). I have seen comments about 'doublesided poly's'. I never use doublesided poly's..... Could that be it ?...

I also came across this comment by Bill : " Only the "vc shadows" in the interior model retains the manifold geometry requirement."

Have to shamefully admit that i know all about manifold pressure but never heard of manifold geometry...

I have a hunge that that may cause the fact that i see shadows of knobs, levers, switches, wires, hoses, etc floating about like i am sitting in 'open air'...

How to get shadows of the VC walls and roof to come into play, that's the main question i guess...

An answer would be magnificently appreciated.

Many thanks on forehand!

Cheers,
Jan
 
Hello Jan,

Do not take what I am going to say as granted. I believe that the "Manifold geometry" requirement was dropped with FS-X SP2. "Manifold" means it has to be closed on itself, e.g. describe a geometrically valid solid that you cannot get inside unless you puncture it. Now, virtual cockpit shadows!
I see you have them running so you added the parameter in the model properties. I do not think you have to use "volume shadows" as FS-X SP2 does not make use of it anymore I think! The "Manifold" requirement is "sort of" still true or light will flow through the openings you leave... the fact that you seem to see knob and switch shadows floating around is mainly because the shadow system has a very coarse resolution, e.g. you can barely see small knobs and switches. Do not count on it NOT doing this kind of stuff... unless you run the model in P3D V3 that has much better self-shading. I never used double sided polys either....
 
I think it suffices if the cockpit walls are manifold, i.e. a single object.

One thing you can try is wrapping the cockpit in a single-piece, low poly "shell" with cutouts for the cockpit windows. This could fool FSX' enough to render proper shadows minus the odd knobs, switches, etc...
 
Thanks Mario!

Ok, so 'manifold geometry requirement' it is. Seems the quarter has dropped finally.. Should've done this much earlier but i just checked the default DC-3 and C172 by 'stepping outside the VC'. They both have an almost fully enclosed ' outside VC body'. The VC shadows in both these models do look more or less Ok to me. I also did the same with the A2A B-17 as the VC shadows look a bit similar to what i'm seeing in my VC: shadows of single parts floating about. Difference to the default DC-3 and C172 models: the B-17 VC does NOT have a fully enclosed outer VC body.

I am now trying to establish a fully enclosed body for my VC as well by copying the internal walls and flipping the poly's. Just to be sure i'll make that a single part by glueing everything together.

Yes, i tried my VC in P3Dv2 earlier and the shadows do look wonderful indeed! Way better than FSX but i'd like to make it look good in there as well. :)

Thanks again, Mario! I have a hunge i'm on the right track now. :D

Cheers,
Jan
 
It's fairly self-explanatory, you need something to cast wall and ceiling shadows. Move your eyepoint outside the VC and look back inside: can you see an exterior skin? If you only see the inside of the 'pit then you have no exterior skin and light passes straight to the interior. You can see the inside of the cockpit but FS only uses single sided polys in a VC and doesn't see them from the other side.
 
Heya Bjoern,

Didn't see your post when writing my reply to Mario. A low poly shell is indeed what i'm getting at now. Thanks, mate ! :cool:

Cheers,
Jan
 
Looks like my guess was spot on. Neat! :D

Jan:
If you have Manfred's C-47 source file, you can simply merge his fuselage into your model and cut away all unneecessary polys. Should make for an easy (and hopefully accurate) fix.
 
Yes, Bjoern, i have Manfred's C-47 source but only the internal model, not external. But it's Ok,i have a fine outer shell already. Just need to close the gap for the top escape hatch and then glue everything together. I'm sure the shadows will be fine now. I was asked to release an alpha version of my 'DC-3 VVC' (Vintage Virtual Cockpit, to come with Manfred's superb DC-3/C-47 external model), probabely by the end of this month.

Thank you so much again, gentlemen !! There's only one thing i'm really sure of re FS aircraft design: to come here and ask for help whenever i get stuck. It never failed ! :)

Cheers,
Jan
until next time :wave:
 
Hey guys,

Just to let know, the 'manifold geometry requirement' is working as advertised thanks to you! Very happy about that! :)

No more erie shadows of single parts floating about the cockpit. Looks all pretty natural now. Here are a few screenies. It's about 15.00 hours on the tarmac of LICJ.:

vvc_shadows_1.jpg


vvc_shadows_2.jpg


Finally starting to look like something but far from done yet.

Love the shadows ! Thank you so much again, gents ! :cool:

Cheers,
Jan
 
Javis said:
I was asked to release an alpha version of my 'DC-3 VVC' (Vintage Virtual Cockpit, to come with Manfred's superb DC-3/C-47 external model), probabely by the end of this month.
Click to expand...

Oh dear! Looks like I'll be doing a bit of low and very slow flying soon...
 
Hi Jan
Have a look on avsim for steve's dx10 fixer for fsx(there is a freeware and payware ver) it fixs a few of the dx10 issues and shadows is one of them....
 
Heya Warwick,

Ohhh, yeah, way ahead of you sir! :D Big fan of Steve's DX10 fixer. Been using it ever since the freeware version became available. Next to the much better shadows it also makes a significant difference in the performance of FSX on my system. Bought the payware too just to support him. In my FSX book it sure is one of the best things that happend to it !

Btw, i couldn't 'uncombine' the VOR gauges but they do work. For the time being it's just a matter of clicking the OBS knob one time for the instruments to become functional. Not that bad really. I might contact you again one of these days if you don't mind. Thanks again, mate!

Thanks for the comments, guys, much appreciated ! :cool:

Cheers,
Jan
 
Hi Mate
Ahhh ok was just going by the pics you posted, the shadows looked a little harsher than I remember :)

In regards to the vor/obs knobs ect, because they use L:vars and they always load with an output of 0. You can use a hidden 2d gauge to initialize the l:vars (or any others for that matter) on aircraft load
something like
Code: 
<Gauge Name="boot">
          <Element>
      <Select>
         <Value>
          (L:dc3_Init,bool) !
          if{
          1 (>L:var that the obs knob uses,bool)
          1 (>L:dc3_Init,bool)
          }
</Value>
    </Select>
  </Element>
</Gauge>
you can then set any system to whatever state you want without a lot of stuffing around
 
Very interesting, Warwick, thanks ! Although i have no experience at all with programming i'll be happy to give it try. I figure this code goes into the 'radiosvvc' folder together with the other 2D radios code, right ?

Thanks for the link, Bjoern, interesting read!

Cheers,
Jan
 
yep just place an entry anywhere in the vcockpit entry and the gauge in the gauge folder...I prefer 2d rather than putting it into the 3d model as its easier to comment out...
only issue is... Im not 100% sure if you need to have a small vcockpit polly in the external model to maintain gauge update when switching views...as your only doing the vc model maybe an issue
 
There is, of course, a demonstration of manifold geometry in the FSX SDK help file. Under Index/FSX Material scroll to the bottom image of the teapot and click on "Volume Shadow not manifold".

Image1.jpg
 
Au-MaV said:
yep just place an entry anywhere in the vcockpit entry and the gauge in the gauge folder...I prefer 2d rather than putting it into the 3d model as its easier to comment out...
only issue is... Im not 100% sure if you need to have a small vcockpit polly in the external model to maintain gauge update when switching views...as your only doing the vc model maybe an issue
Click to expand...

Ah, Ok, thanks, Warwick ! I'll give it a try and see how far i can get.

Btw, i see you replied to a question that Lionheart posted about vibration. I'd love a bit of vibration in my VC as well. I tried 'engine_rocker_arm' with immidate success. Yiihaa!! :) But it is continues atm and i'd like it to only appear at low rpm or, possibly, only during taxi. Could this be achieved with the 'engine_arm_code' or do i better 'use one of the RPM vars' like you suggested ?

Thanks much again, mate !

Cheers,
Jan
 
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