What are your views on circular runways?

[Jaeyo]

Circular runways have been proposed in a number of countries

This is the idea

The Circular runway has been released to FSX and P3d


What do you think?

 

[chris]

As I sit here typing this in a hotel room that's been designed by some idiot who's never stayed in a hotel room, I'm thinking circular runways come from the same design mentality.

 

[Vitus]

What do you think?

I cannot understand how such a nutty concept gets so much attention in the media and even at places where people should know what they're talking about.

It's a crazy idea with too many flaws to even get started. Dead inn the water.

 

[Jaeyo]

I cannot understand how such a nutty concept gets so much attention in the media and even at places where people should know what they're talking about.

It's a crazy idea with too many flaws to even get started. Dead inn the water.

You make a very fair point. I hate the idea. Passengers would hate the idea

 

[hairyspin]

I know this was aired on the Beeb a while ago, but it's perfect for August: typical Silly Season material.

 

[Jaeyo]

I know this was aired on the Beeb a while ago, but it's perfect for August: typical Silly Season material.

xD Definitely Planned that!

 

[Heretic]

A concrete circle with some 3.5 km diameter would be a much better idea, but noooooo...

 

[Ronald]

The concept may be nice, but how are aircraft successfully going to land in severe weather conditions?
On current airport architectures, aircraft can take-off and land "against the current wind-direction" (if the airport has a runway aligned with that) but how is it working out here?

 

[Jaeyo]

The concept may be nice, but how are aircraft successfully going to land in severe weather conditions?
On current airport architectures, aircraft can take-off and land "against the current wind-direction" (if the airport has a runway aligned with that) but how is it working out here?

Airlines would have to spend millions upgrading their aircraft software to support these landings. Bye bye autoland

 

[=rk=]

The concept may be nice, but how are aircraft successfully going to land in severe weather conditions?
On current airport architectures, aircraft can take-off and land "against the current wind-direction" (if the airport has a runway aligned with that) but how is it working out here?

Try to imagine airplanes landing in a tangent to the circle.

Airlines would have to spend millions upgrading their aircraft software to support these landings. Bye bye autoland

That is an mistaken assumption. Circular runways might sound preposterous, on the face of things and apparently this assumption has trumped reason, it must be in fashion. The airplane doesn't have to land in a circle and circular runways are preposterous only to developers.
Quick rhetorical question: exactly what percentage of the current type of runway does an airplane use to land? Leaving out taxiing, overshooting - it's actually a very short length that an airplane has to transition from a banking flying thing, to a steering driving thing. The Navy's managed to get that distance down to about 12 feet. Those heart catching crosswind plane turned 45° landing videos, where the plane jerks onto it's bogies, would be impossible to record at a circular runway, because every touchdown would be dead into the wind. If you had space for it and if you had the money to lay pavement in every conceivable direction the wind might blow, while commercially using only 10% of that pavement at any given time, a circular runway could only be the absolute safest place to land.

A concrete circle with some 3.5 km diameter would be a much better idea, but noooooo...

Great, I am going to take your really excellent idea, and I am going to put my terminal in the middle, because in case the wind blows that particular direction, I don't want a bunch of planes parked on the runway next to the terminal, or have a bunch of planes taxiing across the active part of our really excellent circle to get to a terminal that is on any particular edge.

 

[Vitus]

Hey Rick,

sounds like you like the idea. Here are some reasons why I think circular runways are nuts:
- Gear up landing: Once you're on the ground gear up you loose more and more control, so where will the aircraft end up? In the worst case you're jumping over the sloped edge. It seems safer to make such an approach on a straight runway.
- Noise: in Europe live very noise-sensitive folks and you can't just fly over highly populated areas. You can't use ANY direction to approach the airport, thus limiting the apparent advantage of the circular runway.
- Infrastructure: Busy airports are constantly being extended. The suggested runway is encircling the terminal, where can you realistically expand to? How do you add a second runway? If you add another circular runway, how do you move your aircraft there? You can't go over the slope, so do you build tunnels for aircraft to cross the runways?
- ILS won't work: provided that you want aircraft to be able to approach from ANY direction you can't use ILS anymore. The only workaround would be to install ILS systems tangent to the runway at fixed radials, but that again goes against the whole philosophy of circular runways.

I have more, but those should make my case for now

 

[=rk=]

It only sounds that way. I tend to go with developers, despite my hobby and in a few short years, circular runways will be about as relevant as circular roundhouses, but in the mean time, a sensible discussion on technology, transportation and how they go together logically, shouldn't hurt.

- Gear up landing: Once you're on the ground gear up you loose more and more control, so where will the aircraft end up? In the worst case you're jumping over the sloped edge. It seems safer to make such an approach on a straight runway.

Besides the fact that we don't develop transportation hubs in anticipation of "gear up" landings, the inevitable provision will include a surface wide enough to allow such things. Why are you stuck on this "sloped" thing? You do understand what a tangent is, yes? Nothing has to "bank" or turn under G force. I apologize that I am about to go to my daytime job of smashing rocks with my forehead, or I'd link pictures.

- Noise: in Europe live very noise-sensitive folks and you can't just fly over highly populated areas. You can't use ANY direction to approach the airport, thus limiting the apparent advantage of the circular runway.

If you had space for it and if you had the money to lay pavement in every conceivable direction the wind might blow, while commercially using only 10% of that pavement at any given time, a circular runway could only be the absolute safest place to land.

- Infrastructure: Busy airports are constantly being extended. The suggested runway is encircling the terminal, where can you realistically expand to? How do you add a second runway? If you add another circular runway, how do you move your aircraft there? You can't go over the slope, so do you build tunnels for aircraft to cross the runways?

No slope, build two - if you must, heck put one in every neighborhood or...realize that mass transit using things that have to lunge around like semi guided missiles is just about a thing of the past.

- ILS won't work: provided that you want aircraft to be able to approach from ANY direction you can't use ILS anymore. The only workaround would be to install ILS systems tangent to the runway at fixed radials, but that again goes against the whole philosophy of circular runways.

ILS is so very 20th century. Granted it works, so do flashlights. Is that even a relevant argument?

 

[hairyspin]

This topic was discussed some months ago and went round in circles then too.

 

[Dutcheeseblend]

Can't get my head around this idea...

 

[edphipps]

Ok, which way do you go on one of these things? Clockwise or counter clockwise. I'd like to know before I'm on final approach.

 

[Pyscen]

Ok, which way do you go on one of these things? Clockwise or counter clockwise. I'd like to know before I'm on final approach.

That's simple... The same direction as the water flushes... northern hemisphere - clock-wise.... southern hemisphere - counter clock-wise