• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

Where can current nav data be found besides Navigraph?

V

Vector

Messages
69
Country
us-pennsylvania
I don't like the fact that they are putting a monopoly on the nav data and charging money for it. This situation has a big negative affect on freeware development.
 
What nav data are you referring to? There are many sites that have airport info, etc... Including the FAA for the US, and it is all and will always be free.

Not sure what other data you are talking about...

- Greg
 
Vector said:
I don't like the fact that they are putting a monopoly on the nav data and charging money for it. This situation has a big negative affect on freeware development.
Click to expand...

Navigraph now has to pay for the data that used to be free. Do you imagine that they should not seek to recoup their expenses?

There is an alternative (sort of) at http://www.planepath.com/ but I'm a bit puzzled about where this site is obtaining their data.
 
SpectroPro said:
What nav data are you referring to? There are many sites that have airport info, etc... Including the FAA for the US, and it is all and will always be free.

Not sure what other data you are talking about...

- Greg
Click to expand...

He's asking about the AIRAC cycle, which is a world-wide database of every SID and STAR currently in force, as well as a heap of other nav information on facilities that have changed since the last AIRAC cycle.

However, what Navigraph does with the data is to (re)format it into multiple database formats, since every FMC currently available uses their own, custom format.

The raw data source that Navigraph used to get for free now has to be paid for, which is one reason that it's now pay-as-you-go to obtain, but more to the point, it takes time and effort to take the raw data and format it for a multitude of specific product formats.
 
n4gix said:
He's asking about the AIRAC cycle, which is a world-wide database of every SID and STAR currently in force, as well as a heap of other nav information on facilities that have changed since the last AIRAC cycle.

However, what Navigraph does with the data is to (re)format it into multiple database formats, since every FMC currently available uses their own, custom format.

The raw data source that Navigraph used to get for free now has to be paid for, which is one reason that it's now pay-as-you-go to obtain, but more to the point, it takes time and effort to take the raw data and format it for a multitude of specific product formats.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bill...that makes sense..and yes, they should be paid for what they have to pay for. They have done the work getting it, compiling it, and formatting it.. anyone that doesn't like it can go out and get the info themselves..it is freely available...if you have the time and patience to do the leg work.

- Greg
 
SpectroPro said:
anyone that doesn't like it can go out and get the info themselves..it is freely available
Click to expand...

Well, that's the point. What was free isn't free any longer. While the information for the United States may still be free, that is not the case with most other country's data. They have imposed a charge. There is not a single source for this data. It must be pieced together from many, many sources, not all of which are free... :eek:
 
n4gix said:
Well, that's the point. What was free isn't free any longer. While the information for the United States may still be free, that is not the case with most other country's data. They have imposed a charge. There is not a single source for this data. It must be pieced together from many, many sources, not all of which are free... :eek:
Click to expand...


I see what you mean.

Approximately how much does it cost to get the data from Navigraph?
 
So you would get 5 cycles for 10...that's pretty cheap unless my math is really bad.

Not free...but pretty darned close.

- Greg
 
I am not sure what you read but as far as I am aware one cycle costs 10 credits!?

What I really hate about this price model is that your credits expire after 270 days if you don't recharge your account with another 100 credits. I don't need a new cycle every month - I might want to update every three or four months. However it doesn't make any difference because in the end half of my credits expire and I have to recharge it.

Therefore I still fly with the 0708 cycle...
Vitus
 
Well, that's even cheaper than he posted...but, of course, if you are forced to recharge or lose what you have, then it becomes a rip-off very quickly. I guess if you get a few people to share with, then maybe it would be worth it. You pay, you all grab different cycles, and then the next person does the recharge, and so on and so on....

- Greg
 
Vitus said:
I am not sure what you read but as far as I am aware one cycle costs 10 credits!?
Vitus
Click to expand...

I don't guess at these things sir. Here is the source of my information:

http://www.navigraph.com/www/fmsdata_about.asp

Below are some facts about the credit system used for FMS Data and nDAC charts. For more specific information about nDAC chart prices, click here.

•Each cycle costs 20 credits, independent on the number of addons/downloads you make during that cycle.
Click to expand...

At that rate, each monthly cycle will cost 2 Euros if you download every monthly cycle.

I note that there is also the option to sign up for a full year (13 cycles) for 200 credits, which would come to 20 Euros, or ~1.5 Euros/cycle.
 
Truthfully, I've never understood this cumpulsive need to keep the navdata updated to reflect the Real World...

...since the SimWorld is frozen in time with all navaids roughly equal to "how the world was as of 2007" or thereabouts.

The whole raison d'etre of accurate navdata is to provide a means to accurately navigate the world as it is. In other words, it will allow you to depart from A and arrive at B successfully, even if you were flying all the way in near 0/0 IMC.

This will only work if the navdata is -in fact- synched with the "Real World." Since the FS SimWorld does not change, the further from SimReality your navdata drifts, so too does the likelyhood of your safe arrival at B... :eek:
 
Seems like I mixed the price up with something else. Sorry for the misinformation :rolleyes:

Constant updates of your navdata just make sense if you use services like VATSIM or IVAO. It's true that the navaids in FS are more or less fixed, adjusting frequencies of VORs, ILS' etc is not a straight forward procedure. However most of the changes in the terminal procedures don't affect the facilities at all but the procedures how to use them!

But basically I agree with you Bill - there is no need to update the nav database every month - hence my criticism about the price policy. Buy the 100 credits once and you are forced to decide whether to update your database almost every month or wait for the credits to expire.

Customer is king. Yeah, right... :rolleyes:

Vitus
 
Vitus said:
Constant updates of your navdata just make sense if you use services like VATSIM or IVAO.
Click to expand...

That's precisely my point. Why does VATSIM and IVAO insist on such silliness?

I suppose that's one of the reasons I've never spent longer on VATSIM than it takes to test out transponder code functions... :D
 
Well, you need a common data state, otherwise the controllers would have some trouble to figure out what kind of approach the pilots are flying ;)

However my experience is that you don't get in trouble when you use say one year old charts or AIRACs as most of the updates just contain minor changes.

I didn't fly online for a looooong time. But a few years ago I used VATSIM quite often. But I flew VFR most of the time - doing that you don't have to care about most actual AIRACs :D
 
if you live in the US you can go to your local GA airport and they should have maps, etc for everywhere in your state for free:)

Unless you want it from the internet...;)
 
Vitus said:
Well, you need a common data state, otherwise the controllers would have some trouble to figure out what kind of approach the pilots are flying ;)
Click to expand...

Once again, that is precisely my point; by default FS9 and FSX share a common data state... Why complicate the issue? :rolleyes:
 
Well, depends on what level of realism you desire. They both contain crappy mesh terrain data as well, and I have updated to very high detail terrain mesh for most of the world. So you can't say it's stupid just because you don't want to use it or keep current.

I will never get that data, but apparently some people want it and/or demand it to be current. Being a pilot, I get current charts a couple times a year...I make minor changes in my FS airports I fly to regularly based on the changes (if any) in my real world charts. Most people would probably think that is overkill or stupid.


I think that is why we become developers...we want to make FS better for ourselves and/or for others. We complicate the hell out of FS by the work we do. :)

- Greg
 
SpectroPro said:
Well, depends on what level of realism you desire. They both contain crappy mesh terrain data as well, and I have updated to very high detail terrain mesh for most of the world. So you can't say it's stupid just because you don't want to use it or keep current.
Click to expand...

I never once used the word "stupid." I said it seems a bit "silly," which is something else altogether... ;)

I don't truly see the point in this, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a point; only that I can't see it. That there are many others who do see a point to the activity may say something about their perceptive abilities. OTOH it may also simply mean that there are a lot of silly people in the world... :stirthepo :duck:
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top