Which should I pick? 3DS or GMAX?

[Bart Oziembala]

Hi folks, i need your help

The thing is, I have been creating models for a long time now (3ds and gmax) but some time ago i got a new CPU, FSX and Vista. And guess what, everythings screwed

I made a nice model in 3ds 6, exported it in FS9 and everything was fine. Now I have upgraded to version 9, got myself the FSX SDK and I can't export anything. It shows stuff like
- NoFriendly name set
- Export module stopped working
- Duplicate parts found, cannot proceed

Whatever, all of this starts to piss me off. The other thing, I have to work on my old CPU cause Vista kinda works bad with 3ds.

What I would like to ask you guys, is - would you switch back to the good old gmax? I mean for aircraft and scenery models, is gmax still good enough to create outstanding models with bumps, reflections, w.animations and custom effects?

I have never really trusted gmax but now i am kinda sick of 3ds and i want something that lets me create very good models.

Whats your opinion? Feel free to write more than just one sentence.

BTW: I WOULD TAKE GMAX CAUSE ITS FREE IS NOT A SERIOUS ANSWER.

 

[n4gix]

There are actually only several points to consider:

1) The export tools in the SDK only work with Max7, Max8, and GMax 1.2... Max9 is not explicity supported, but may - or may not - work properly.

2) GMax 1.2 is perfectly suitable for creating FSX content. Considering that an FSX model (either a/c or scenery) can only be created using a relatively small sub-set of the "tools" available in GMax to begin with, having a huge bucketfull of even more "tools" that are useless for FS model creation is hardly an advantage...

3) The only real advantage of Max7/8 with regards to FSX modeling is that one has access to the .X files that're exported, whereas with GMax the export process is transparent from .gmax to .mdl. This "advantage" will be most appreciated by scenery developers, who might wish to "hand-tweak" the X files prior to actually compiling the finished .mdl file.

Finally, let me say this: I have both Max8 and GMax 1.2 available for immediate use. Ninety-nine percent of the time I use GMax for modeling...

 

[n4gix]

I made a nice model in 3ds 6, exported it in FS9 and everything was fine. Now I have upgraded to version 9, got myself the FSX SDK and I can't export anything. It shows stuff like
- NoFriendly name set
- Export module stopped working
- Duplicate parts found, cannot proceed
.

With regards to these specific error messages:

1) All FSX .mdl files must have a "Friendly Name" and unique "GUID." This is generated automatically by the FSX "LOD Tool" script.

2) The export module will fail because of error#1, as well as a number of other errors, including #3 you've listed. It also may be related to the non-explicit support for Max9. The SDK tool scripts were written specifically for Max7 and Max8.

3) Duplicate partnames are never a "Good Idea" regardless. While they won't always cause a failed export, they MAY end up "confusing FSX" when it comes time to drawing the objects on screen. Always add a _numeric suffix to parts from the beginning, as a "best practice" habit, e.g., fuse_01, wing_left_01, et cetera.

 

[Bart Oziembala]

hm, i kinda set up the GUID and friendly names and regarding the duplicate parts they were not called the same way. after the 10th letter the words were different .... i think its as you say a 3ds max 9 issue.

but i cannot downgrade, thats bad.

 

[n4gix]

hm, i kinda set up the GUID and friendly names and regarding the duplicate parts they were not called the same way. after the 10th letter the words were different .... i think its as you say a 3ds max 9 issue.

but i cannot downgrade, thats bad.

Well, then your choices just dwindled to exactlly one: GMax v1.2...

OK, there is another choice: take up a new hobby...

 

[Bart Oziembala]

OK, there is another choice: take up a new hobby...

Great, thanks!!! That's what I do

 

[Burkhard]

There is one drawback in GMAX that it cannot display FSX materials. So as soon as you apply FSX materials to get any effect, you are blind looking onto a gray model.

The way out is to use Normal=FS9 materials, adjust them, and replace them by FSX material as last step. But I must say that the number of steps that are last ones is rather larger already - so from a certain point in design there is no more a way to make small little changes.

Do not know if this is better with 3DS.

 

[arno]

How do you mean it does not display FsXMaterials? I see them fine in my GMax. Did you maybe forget to click the "Show map in viewport" option when you made the material (white/blue patterned box)?

 

[n4gix]

How do you mean it does not display FsXMaterials? I see them fine in my GMax. Did you maybe forget to click the "Show map in viewport" option when you made the material (white/blue patterned box)?

Probably! That little "blue checkerboard dice cube" is OFF by default, and has caught many a modeler unaware!

I too have no problems whatever seeing "FSX Materials" in GMax... In fact, I use .PSD files instead of ordinary BMP, JPG or TGA files so I can quickly edit in Photoshop, then Reload in GMax to see the changes instantly!

BTW, the common practice of many of "dragging and dropping" bitmaps onto the modeled part is a "Very Bad Idea." It will create unwanted and unnecessary headaches with regards to "automatic Material creation" and a host of other issues. "Best Practice" is to take full control and use the "Apply" button from the Material Editor dialog.

 

[arno]

Probably! That little "blue checkerboard dice cube" is OFF by default, and has caught many a modeler unaware!

Don't tell me, took me quite some time to figure that one out as well .

I too have no problems whatever seeing "FSX Materials" in GMax... In fact, I use .PSD files instead of ordinary BMP, JPG or TGA files so I can quickly edit in Photoshop, then Reload in GMax to see the changes instantly!

Same here, I prefer to use the PSD files directly. Means that I only have two versions of each texture the PSD source with all layers I want and the DXT/DDS images to use in FS.

BTW, the common practice of many of "dragging and dropping" bitmaps onto the modeled part is a "Very Bad Idea." It will create unwanted and unnecessary headaches with regards to "automatic Material creation" and a host of other issues. "Best Practice" is to take full control and use the "Apply" button from the Material Editor dialog.

Before the FsXMaterials it was not such a bad idea. I might have made the material navigator a bit of a mess in GMax, but MakeMDL would sort everything nicely when creating the MDL file. So I used it a lot back then.

But now that we have to create the FsXMaterials it is indeed a very bad idea to do it this way. It is much better to create only FsXMaterials from the start yourself.

 

[Burkhard]

Thanks. That will save me hours on the approximately 200 aircrafts I have to rebuild!

 

[n4gix]

But now that we have to create the FsXMaterials it is indeed a very bad idea to do it this way. It is much better to create only FsXMaterials from the start yourself.

Well, given Adrian's blog (and Owen's excellent summary!), this issue becomes even MORE CRITICAL!

Preplanning and very careful attention to FSX Material creation, as well as "texture usage" is of prime importance...

 

[Simon853]

Does anyone ever break even after buying 3DS Max? There's a lot of pros and cons technically in this discussion, but surely the greatest has to be the price: free or a limb!!

I'm trying to convince my company to buy me a copy, as they've seen what I can do making marketing videos (defence aerospace industry) using gmax and FSX, but I've been telling them that if I had access to all that cheap or free Turbosquid.com max format content I could really start do something special!!

Si

 

[Burkhard]

That is a major concern for me. If if would be a few hundred $, no problem, but most FS projects do not bring the turnover of one copy of 3DS.

 

[ahuimanu]

Sorry to semi-hijack...

There are actually only several points to consider:
3) The only real advantage of Max7/8 with regards to FSX modeling is that one has access to the .X files that're exported, whereas with GMax the export process is transparent from .gmax to .mdl. This "advantage" will be most appreciated by scenery developers, who might wish to "hand-tweak" the X files prior to actually compiling the finished .mdl file.

So, despite the instructions in the SDK regarding "Exporting a Model from 3ds Max®" saying this:

"To export the model, make sure the format Flight Simulator Direct X File (*.X) is selected, no other model format will work. If the option Flightsim Model (*.MDL) is shown, do not use it, it has not been implemented in this release. "

We go from .gmax straight to .mdl?

I am using gmax 1.2 and SDK Sp1a for FSX

 

[ziporama]

I have no idea if this has any truth to it, and I read somewhere that the only way MS was able to convince Autodesk to allow the SDK to include support for GMAX was precisely not to provide the .X format which is used as the intermediate file format.

Again, not sure if this is fact of fiction.

 

[n4gix]

I have no idea if this has any truth to it, and I read somewhere that the only way MS was able to convince Autodesk to allow the SDK to include support for GMAX was precisely not to provide the .X format which is used as the intermediate file format.

Again, not sure if this is fact of fiction.

As I learned of this dirctrly from the "horse's mouth" so to speak, you may consider it canonical truth. The negotiations were so lengthy and involved, that is the precise reason why ACES had to release FSX RTM w/o GMax support...

BTW, I've tried "intercepting" the export process, but have had no success whatsoever. Apparently ACES had to really make the exporter bulletproof to convince the lawyers...

 

[ahuimanu]

So, can I move forward assuming that this .mdl from gmax is good to go?

I appreciate having gmax and the ability to freely make models. However, it is obvious that gmax is absolutely abandonded and that autodesk has no intention of providing a similar product.

I wonder, with the unified platform between the next version of Train Simulator and the current version of Flight Simulator, if Microsoft would consider building a modeling tool into the software? We already have a "professional" version, I'd be willing to pay a premium for a "developer" version.

I'll be happy to use gmax for as long as this avenue is available, but it seems like this aging software is an achilles heel. There is NO WAY I'll pay $3,500 to make freeware models. Nearly every developer making money off of add-ons at one point relied on tools to make freeware add-ons.

Of course, most folks will probably use a warez version of 3DS max, but I don't fly that way. With all this hoo hah concerning gmax and the SDK, it seems like it is time for Microsoft to consider giving us a dedicated design tool for creating content within the game. It would not likely be as featureful as gmax/3DS max, but I get the sense that we don't need all of gmax/3DS max as it is.

 

[n4gix]

...for that matter, FS modeling doesn't even use a tenth of what GMax is capable of doing!

You may be certain that ACES are considering alternatives, but aren't in any position to disclose what those alternatives may be, yet...

 

[ahuimanu]

Hi Bill,

I think you may be missing the question portion of my posts in this thread.

Q: Can I use the .MDL exported from gmax 1.2 with the FSX SDK SP1a despite what the documentation says here: Exporting a Model from 3ds Max®: -

"To export the model, make sure the format Flight Simulator Direct X File (*.X) is selected, no other model format will work. If the option Flightsim Model (*.MDL) is shown, do not use it, it has not been implemented in this release. "