MSFS20 [Complete] ENSX - Stavanger EMS helicopter

[GaryGB]

Hi Vetle:

Terrain in MSFS can include:

* Terrain mesh (made from special Terra-Forming vectors as special "Altitude Isoline" Contours with associated gradient Height Map info).

* Vector polygon objects which have Raster texture Materials mapped onto them in layers with numeric display priority

The latter of these (2) categories of objects are "Terrain Mesh Clinging", and need not be made via Sketchup or other 3D modeling apps.


Once projected in the proper GIS format, they can either be made via GIS apps or directly in a MSFS SDK DevMode 'live' flight session.

Alternatively, they can be imported from GIS Shape (aka "SHP") files imported to a MSFS Project using the "Save SHP File" options.


If you wish to import / edit OpenStreetMap Road vectors (or better yet, import the Kartverket 'Vis | Kart)' vector map data as SHP files, we can ID a download source, and process the GIS SHP data, then import them into Sketchup and/or MSFS SDK DevMode to edit / use.

If imported into Sketchup, you could simply extrude the building footprints to the desired heights to derive 3D building "primitives".

Let me know if you would like to check out this option to save having to trace the screen grabs of those Cadastral images in Sketchup.


BTW: I have been meaning to ask for your help with translating and/or downloading GIS data from the Norwegian GIS web sites, as I cannot get Google Translate, or the website's own "English" mode ...to work.


PS: I hope you may get a reply to your question at Sketchup forum; there are some brilliant folks registered there, but those forums tend to have much less traffic and posting by skilled users in recent years (compared to FSDEV).

IMHO, it seems that community is now focused on newer / newest versions of Sketchup, particularly payware versions ...instead of 2017.

IIUC, the developers are concerned about the future of Sketchup and staying "funded" / retained by Trimble.

The developers are all enormously talented; but in spite of that, Dave R can sometimes initially be a bit less friendly.

Thomas Thomassen (aka "thomthom") is a friendly fellow Norseman who started out as a plugin author; he is now one of the developers.

I am confident all your replies there are well-intended; however, IMHO, it is best to not 3D model Terrain for runtime display.


Rather, one can use 3D models to create Terrain data to be exported as SHP, and to then import / configure as MSFS Polygons.

GaryGB

 

[Nordscape]

If you wish to import / edit OpenStreetMap Road vectors (or better yet, import the Kartverket 'Vis | Kart)' vector map data as SHP files, we can ID a download source, and process the GIS SHP data, then import them into Sketchup and/or MSFS SDK DevMode to edit / use.

If imported into Sketchup, you could simply extrude the building footprints to the desired heights to derive 3D building "primitives".

Let me know if you would like to check out this option to save having to trace the screen grabs of those Cadastral images in Sketchup.

I would certainly be interested in this approach. If there is data available which I can relatively easily import into Sketchup that would be perfect, I just do not know where to look. I am not looking at perfect terrain, but more or less good reference points in regards to where to place certain objects and flat faces. I am searching for a way to approach this regarding the norgeskart.no page, but please do advice if you have a suffcient way to download and import SHT-files So far I cannot find such downloadable file from that mentioned webpage.

EDIT: I managed to find an export function which includes [amongst others] .shp files. I will see what I can do to implement them in the Sketchup model.

BTW: I have been meaning to ask for your help with translating and/or downloading GIS data from the Norwegian GIS web sites, as I cannot get Google Translate, or the website's own "English" mode ...to work.

Certainly! Anything in particular?

 

[GaryGB]

Thanks for your kind offer to translate and/or download once we ID some target GIS data for your project.

I will need do some tinkering before I can ID target GIS data.


As much as I hate to do it, I may have to install Google's version of Chrome (not OpenSource "Chromium") browser to test it.

If I get Google Chrome to Translate (as FireFox's built-in Translate also does not work on Norway GIS sites), I can ID some data.


I may have to tinker today to see if I can ID files to download, so I'll get back to you ASAP, possibly tomorrow (Wednesday).


FYI: The cadastral drawings you showed above are some of the best I have seen; 'other' vector data is way behind on quality.

If those are available, it would be helpful to download, even if a few steps of GIS conversion re-projection are required.

If those are only available as Raster 'images' instead of as text-based alphanumeric data records, images could be traced with either of several apps, converted to (thin) vector poly-lines, then output as SHP data in a GIS projection that Sketchup and MSFS SDK can import.

After testing this data option, I can provide you with the info on a special plugin that makes SHP imports to Sketchup possible.

NOTE: When working in DevMode:

Scenery Editor Menu > Edit > Save polygons in shapefiles

...will prompt to save vector polygon data into a file, as one saves that entire MSFS Project.

I would typically put it in [ProjectName]\Project Sources\Scenery as [filename.shp], naming the data by vector polygon type

NOTE: Use of the default XML format for vector data inside the MSFS "airport" XML code will not work for this task:

During load-up of MSFS projects, with a little trickery, the initial SHP file saved by using DevMode tools can be temporarily substituted within its folder location / path, by 1 or more SHP files derived from Sketchup or other GIS-enabled apps.

These will be initially imported as "Primitive" polygons, and after all desired SHP data is added to the project as "Primitive" polygons, one can save all SHP-related data back out into a new SHP in the specified \Package Sources sub-folder path.

Those "Primitive" polygons will require one to edit their Properties to fill out all MSFS's proprietary Polygon 'Attribute' fields (it does this automatically and internally within the edited SHP data when a Polygon Property is assigned to a Primitive).

Thus Primitive become fully compatible Polygon objects with one's assigned Properties (I can explain this process more later).

This allows you to import numerous cadastral and other objects as 'primitive' Polygons, then assign them MSFS' own attributes via the Properties dialog, ...rather than creating each manually 1-by-1 using the Polygon drawing tool in DevMode GUI.

I plan to test SHP data import for a TIN Terra-forming "sloped flatten" / mesh via your linked local ENSX 1 Meter DTM data.

So, at your earliest convenience, I would welcome the opportunity to test the Norway 1 Meter DTM to make a local terrain mesh; I'll check my PM's periodically to see if you were successful in accessing / downloading linking a small ZIP from that data set.

If I get bored, I may resort to an attempt to get Google's Chrome working without having it run rampant all over my computer.

More status on this later today, if all goes well.

GaryGB

 

[Nordscape]

Thanks for your kind offer to translate and/or download once we ID some target GIS data for your project.

I will need do some tinkering before I can ID target GIS data.


As much as I hate to do it, I may have to install Google's version of Chrome (not to be confused with "Chromium" browser to test it.

If I can get Google to Translate in Chrome (as FireFox's built-in Translate also does not work on Norway GIS sites), I can ID some data.


I may have to tinker a bit today to see if I can ID some files to download, so I'll get back to you ASAP, possibly tomorrow (Wednesday).


FYI: The cadastral drawings you showed a few times are some of the best I have seen, and leaves other vector data way behind on quality.

If those are available somewhere, it would be helpful to download, even if a few steps of GIS conversion re-projection are required.

If those are only available as Raster 'images' instead of as text-based alphanumeric data records, images could be traced with either of several apps, converted to (thin) vector poly-lines, then output as SHP data in a GIS projection that Sketchup and MSFS SDK can import.

After testing this data option, I can provide you with the info on a special plugin that makes SHP imports to Sketchup possible.

NOTE: When working in DevMode:

Scenery Editor Menu > Edit > Save polygons in shapefiles

...will prompt to save vector polygon data as one saves that Project (...IIRC, I'd typically put it in [ProjectName]\Project Sources\Scenery).


With a little trickery, the initial SHP file saved by using DevMode tools can be temporarily swapped for one from Sketchup or other apps, and can be imported as "Primitive" polygons that will require editing Properties to fill out all MSFS's proprietary Polygon 'Attribute' fields internally, thus becoming fully compatible Polygon objects with one's assigned Properties (I can explain this process more later).

By doing this, you can import numerous cadastral and other objects as 'primitive' Polygons, then assign them MSFS' own attributes via the Properties dialog, ...rather than creating them manually 1-by-1 using the Polygon drawing tool in DevMode GUI.


Well, I shall now try to get Chrome working without having it run rampant all over my computer.

More status on this later today, if all goes well.

GaryGB

I am unsure if you need to install any Chrome, but on this site: https://hoydedata.no/LaserInnsyn2/ you can zoom into the relevant location "Stavanger universitetssjukehus". Under "Meny"->Eksport->and then at the bottom you can export a .zip file including several file-types. It seems to give the sufficient data required but I have not yet tried to implement it into Sketchup yet.

Here I have selected "Nasjonal Høydemodell=National height model" within "Område=area" currently displayed chart area. "Oppløsning=resolution" 1m,

Within the downloaded .zip file i can find the following files. Note multiple .shp files.

 

[GaryGB]

I would certainly be interested in this approach. If there is data available which I can relatively easily import into Sketchup that would be perfect, I just do not know where to look. I am not looking at perfect terrain, but more or less good reference points in regards to where to place certain objects and flat faces. I am searching for a way to approach this regarding the norgeskart.no page, but please do advice if you have a suffcient way to download and import SHP-files So far I cannot find such downloadable file from that mentioned webpage.

EDIT: I managed to find an export function which includes [amongst others] .shp files. I will see what I can do to implement them in the Sketchup model.
View attachment 94868


Certainly! Anything in particular?

Excellent !

I shall post info on the (very precise) plugin to enable SHP file use with Sketchup as soon as I find it in one of my old posts here at FSDEV; a few minutes ?

UPDATE:

Hi again:

OK, here is the T4SU plugin authors' Blog page with pertinent info on download and installation of the plugin etc:

https://t4su.wordpress.com/2016/07/11/how-to-install-it-through-the-console/


Here is the (larger) thread where I describe additional info on use of the T4SU plugin as well as related GIS apps and GIS procedures etc:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...x-sloped-flatten-scenery-object-moved.446355/


I suggest installing the Sketchup-specific (by year ?) version of the T4SU plugin; you may find it very useful in your Sketchup 2017 work.

I shall need to refresh my memory on this plugin for a few minutes.


BTW: It is unlikely one may need to use Sketchup 2016 "Combine Textures" on vertical Faces with GIS and SHP files.

But, be certain to download / install Sketchup 2016; you may need it (since 2017 broke the "Combine Textures" feature, and never fixed it):

SketchUp Make 16.1.1449 (64-bit) - Download for Windows

Download SketchUp Make 16.1.1449 (64-bit) for Windows PC - Safe and Secure from FileHorse.

www.filehorse.com

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

OK, here is the plugin authors Blog page with pertinent info on download and installation of the plugin etc:

T4SU (Tools for SketchUp)

https://t4su.wordpress.com/2016/07/11/how-to-install-it-through-the-console/


Note that the T4SU documentation is listed by sections, on the right side of the page.


Additionally, note that a T4SU PDF manual is available here:

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/05/03/t4su-doc/


Here is the (larger) thread where I describe additional info on use of the T4SU plugin and related GIS app and procedure etc:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...x-sloped-flatten-scenery-object-moved.446355/


I suggest downloading all the T4SU document web pages and PDF manual for that plugin, as they may prove useful in the future.

I shall now need to refresh my memory on this plugin for a few minutes.


GaryGB

 

[Nordscape]

Excellent !

I shall post info on the (very precise) plugin to enable SHP file use with Sketchup as soon as I find it in one of my old posts here at FSDEV; a few minutes ?

UPDATE:

Hi again:

OK, here is the plugin authors Blog page with pertinent info on download and installation of the plugin etc:

https://t4su.wordpress.com/2016/07/11/how-to-install-it-through-the-console/


Here is the (larger) thread where I describe additional info on use of the plugin and related GIS app and procedure etc:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...x-sloped-flatten-scenery-object-moved.446355/


I suggest installing all the options for that plugin, as you may find them useful in Sketchup 2017.

I shall need to refresh my memory on this plugin for a few minutes.

I will check out this when I have some time. Thank you

BTW: I may not have mentioned this, but one may sometimes need to use Sketchup 2016 to "Combine Textures" on vertical Faces.

Download Sketchup 2016 in case you need it (since 2017 broke that feature, and never fixed it):

If there is not much difference between the 2016 and 2017 version other than the "Combine textures" feature I will certainly transfer to that version. Thanks for the info!

 

[GaryGB]

I will check out this when I have some time. Thank you

If there is not much difference between the 2016 and 2017 version other than the "Combine textures" feature I will certainly transfer to that version. Thanks for the info!

Sketchup 2016 is generally very similar to 2017 as far as its GUI and workflow; I only use it for Combine Textures and older plugins not yet updated to 2017.

BTW: In rare cases, I also use the 32-Bit Sketchup 8 with very special older plugins not updated to even 2016; it is slightly slower with large projects exceeding ~ 50 MB and especially > 150 MB in size; it also has less efficient RAM access (uses paging file ?).


2017 has some new code internally that makes it possible to make more sophisticated dialog boxes and control features, and to do things like use PBR texture Materials, as well as using some other newer plugins not (yet ?) ported into Sketchup 2016.

2017 also attempts to connect with an online module to inventory / manage / update extensions, and to load Help topics.

This is especially distracting when it tries to "help" me, and worse yet, it also sometimes crashes work sessions.

So I disable Sketchup Make online features with a "hack" of the Windows HOSTS file, so that attempted connections 'think' they get 'out' to target URLs via the internet, but actually they get redirected to the local machine's 127.0.0.1 'null' port.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

I am unsure if you need to install any Chrome, but on this site: https://hoydedata.no/LaserInnsyn2/ you can zoom into the relevant location "Stavanger universitetssjukehus". Under "Meny"->Eksport->and then at the bottom you can export a .zip file including several file-types. It seems to give the sufficient data required but I have not yet tried to implement it into Sketchup yet.



View attachment 94869

Here I have selected "Nasjonal Høydemodell=National height model" within "Område=area" currently displayed chart area. "Oppløsning=resolution" 1m,

View attachment 94870

Within the downloaded .zip file i can find the following files. Note multiple .shp files.

View attachment 94871

This looks very encouraging for having found a way to reduce your work creating things 'from scratch'.

When your time and online space permits at DropBox, feel free to send me link, and I'll take a look at the GIS data so I can advise on what is there, and whether it may require re-projection to a GIS cartographic format that Sketchup and MSFS can import.

The above T4SU Sketchup plugin (and Sketchup Geolocation / KMZ imports) ...require files in non-warped EPSG:3857 GIS format.

MSFS SDK DevMode requires vector polygon *.SHP files in 'warped' EPSG:4326 GIS format.


There is a learning curve with GIS apps (even free ones); I may be able to assist with that, as I use Global Mapper (payware).


IIRC, complete Norway 1 Meter DTM ('Terrain' only) versus DSM (all 'Surface' objects including buildings and vegetation etc.) ...is BIG.

IIUC, the map viewer portal allows you to select just a polygon surrounding the Hospital campus' rectangular area ?

GaryGB

 

[Nordscape]

This looks very encouraging for having found a way to reduce your work creating things 'from scratch'.

When your time and online space permits at DropBox, feel free to send me link, and I'll take a look at the GIS data so can advise on what is there, and whether it may require re-projection to a GIS cartographic format that Sketchup and MSFS can import.


There tends to be a learning curve with GIS apps (even free ones), so I may be able to assist with that, as I use Global Mapper (payware).


IIRC, the complete Norway 1 Meter DTM ('Terrain' only) versus DSM (all 'Surface' objects including buildings and vegetation etc.) ...is BIG.

IIUC, the map viewer portal allows you to select just a polygon surrounding the Hospital campus' rectangular area ?

GaryGB

You seem to be correct that you can assign a custom polygon, certain area visible in the webpage or other parameters relevant for export, so the file I downloaded was about 25mb. I will download the plugin you mentioned and try it within sketchup to see how it works out. Thanks!

 

[GaryGB]

FYI: There is also a data set that I saw somewhere on a Norway GIS web portal that has building heights (it has pictures of buildings).

If you happen to find it, you may wish to download that as well, at least for the areas you plan to 3D model, as it may be in a format that can be utilized by the plugin to "semi-automatically" extrude the building footprints to their proper height IRL.

One can also over ride the semi-automatic extrusion done by the plugin when needed, to manually model correct roof height / shape etc.

https://t4su.wordpress.com/2016/09/19/extruding-heights-from-your-geometries/


When I get some more time, I'll retrace my browsing to see if I can find that data set so you know here to find it.

GaryGB

 

[Nordscape]

I found this pagehttps://3d.kommunekart.com/?x=58.94992211635158&y=5.726731211299641&z=272.8380247100794&head=45.008348686367704&pitch=-27.586253789098294&roll=359.9999987971856 which contains both terrain and 3D building information. However I cannot seem to find out how to download the data myself. I will look into this further when I get some better understanding of things, but I think I need to prioritize moving along with the "good enough" plan for now. I am struggling a bit to see the benefit of such accurate terrain data at my current stage

 

[Nordscape]

Update regarding the terrain: Using the drape function with the sandbox tool achieves the intention of forming the necessary terrain. I am sure there are easier and prettier ways to do this, but I believe it's sufficient to my use.

Using the drape function draws an outline of the object on top of the terrain which I made with the "terrain out of contours" function in the sandbox tool. When the outline has been applied to the terrain I then continue extruding the original outline downwards so that the area of interest is "filled". I then go over by removing the excess area and I end up with a "ok" looking base.

Second; I used same principal as mentioned above to outline the fence placement.

I will now continue by placing the fences on top of the outline and add some details to the surface.

EDIT: Now with fences

 

[Nordscape]

Next on "the list" is to add emissive lights to the building. I know there is a function within MCX to do this, but I am abit unsure on how to proceed. As can be seen from the images above the windows and doors are transparent and then I have applied a dark material to represent at room which is not possible to see into (I could probably have done that in a better way).

How can I best approach this? Is it enough to assign the dark texture as emissive, or do I need to add a different colored texture? Or...since I have some space between the window and the dark material, maybe it would be sufficient to add a light to this area using the in-SDK lights?

Please see this thread made specifically for the emissive lights issue: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ights-to-a-sketchup-designed-building.459465/

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Vetle:

I recommend that you review these (2) threads for some info on both the latter (2) tasks above for your ENSX project:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/mcx-same-key-error-exporting-gltf.453610/#post-890686

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...t-which-displays-as-an-emissive-light.455166/


You may see, MSFS20 KFHR Friday Harbor (generic) airport uses basic (but clever) scenery creation methods for Night display.


You may wish to examine some of the default scenery objects placed at KFHR in MCX by importing this library of 1,207 objects:

[MSFS20 Packages Path]\Official\OneStore\fs-base\scenery\Global\Asobo_Props\Asobo_Props.BGL


Of particular note is:

MCX Icon Toolbar > Scenery Objects Editor > Fence_Grilling03 (_High, _Little, _Middle) objects

In MCX Material Editor, you may wish to study mapped texture Materials and their properties for these 3D models at KFHR.



You may also wish to examine other default scenery objects specific to KFHR in MCX by importing this library of 30 objects:

[MSFS20 Packages Path]\Official\OneStore\microsoft-airport-kfhr-friday-harbor\scenery\Microsoft\Friday-Harbor\modelLib.BGL


Of particular note is:

MCX Icon Toolbar > Scenery Objects Editor > KFHR-05

Again, in MCX Material Editor, you may wish to study mapped texture Materials and their properties for that 3D model at KFHR.


I suggest loading a flight at KFHR at / after dusk, and slew around the Control Tower to study how that scenery was made.


PS: If you opt to place any MSFS20 default Fence_Grilling03 series objects, be aware that SDK placement by default is 'AGL', with a "Snap To Ground" attribute turned on; this allows object(s) to follow terrain regardless of end user Terrain slider settings.

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Developer_Mode/Scenery_Editor/Objects/Scenery_Objects.htm?rhhlterm="snap to ground"&rhsearch="Snap to Ground"


Note that one may need to configure a "Fallback" Terrain.Cfg file setting that lists mapped MSFS default texture locations:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...sing-in-commercial-freeware-sceneries.458748/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/re-using-msfs-textures.456467/#post-918546

https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/t/modellib-texture-fallbacks/6260

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/use-of-default-objects-in-dev-mode.454730/



BTW: I believe there are a few issues that you may wish to consider regarding use of static textures on 3D modeled terrain, instead of applying MSFS default terrain textures onto MSFS dynamic default terrain surfaces (whether terra-formed- or not-).

One must allow for MSFS seasonal changes to occur for realism to be displayed on all textures; this should vary by world location and time-of-day, and might impact snow that may display on ground and in end-user helicopter prop-wash effects.

Although seasonal dynamic changes are in their infancy in MSFS20 default scenery, AFAIK, it is already implemented in MSFS24.

While I do regard learning about the "Drape" / Projection" feature in Sketchup to make "Fake Terrain" as a valuable experience, IMHO, a more desirable goal for run time realism via the sophisticated 3D world rendering engine of MSFS, is to instead convert the geometry of the custom ground you described making at ENSX above, as source data used to terra-form the local terrain shape, so that all aspects of world rendering can operate normally.

In addition, properly placed default- or custom- fencing will dynamically stay on top of the terrain surface if it is terra-formed, and will always match the ground surface shape resulting from any end user terrain slider settings.

GaryGB

 

[Nordscape]

Hi Vetle:

I recommend that you review these (2) threads for some info on both the latter (2) tasks above for your ENSX project:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/mcx-same-key-error-exporting-gltf.453610/#post-890686

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...t-which-displays-as-an-emissive-light.455166/


You may see, MSFS20 KFHR Friday Harbor (generic) airport uses basic (but clever) scenery creation methods for Night display.


You may wish to examine some of the default scenery objects placed at KFHR in MCX by importing this library of 1,207 objects:

[MSFS20 Packages Path]\Official\OneStore\fs-base\scenery\Global\Asobo_Props\Asobo_Props.BGL


Of particular note is:

MCX Icon Toolbar > Scenery Objects Editor > Fence_Grilling03 (_High, _Little, _Middle) objects

In MCX Material Editor, you may wish to study mapped texture Materials and their properties for these 3D models at KFHR.

Thanks for this! I will see how I can best approach the issue, but I currently believe that the way the model now is designed in regards to the window areas I can place a MSDS SDK light object inside the small space between the window and the inside dark wall. But I will test with a simple model first how Emissive textures actually are projected within the sim. I have not yet seen the different options available both through MSFS SDK or the possibilities in MCX. Your input is a great input in understanding where to troubleshoot, so thank you!

EDIT: If the SDK "light bulb" feature is not an optimal solution then I think I'll try the emissive textures. I am struggling a bit to understand how to add emissive texture when the model is built through Sketchup. I've seen some youtube videos on how to do it when its built in Blender and the textures are all built into the model (so that its possible to place emissive textures with light colors on top of the building textures), but I need to investigate further how to deal with it when I have textures which are dark during the day but needs to be emissive during the night.

You may also wish to examine other default scenery objects specific to KFHR in MCX by importing this library of 30 objects:

[MSFS20 Packages Path]\Official\OneStore\microsoft-airport-kfhr-friday-harbor\scenery\Microsoft\Friday-Harbor\modelLib.BGL


Of particular note is:

MCX Icon Toolbar > Scenery Objects Editor > KFHR-05

Again, in MCX Material Editor, you may wish to study mapped texture Materials and their properties for that 3D model at KFHR.


I suggest loading a flight at KFHR at / after dusk, and slew around the Control Tower to study how that scenery was made.

I will look into KFHR. I was unaware of the "reverse-MCX-Engineering" (in lack of a better description). Thanks!

PS: If you opt to place any MSFS20 default Fence_Grilling03 series objects, be aware that SDK placement by default is 'AGL', with a "Snap To Ground" attribute turned on; this allows object(s) to follow terrain regardless of end user Terrain slider settings.

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Developer_Mode/Scenery_Editor/Objects/Scenery_Objects.htm?rhhlterm="snap to ground"&rhsearch="Snap to Ground"
Note that one may need to configure a "Fallback" Terrain.Cfg file setting that lists mapped MSFS default texture locations:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...sing-in-commercial-freeware-sceneries.458748/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/re-using-msfs-textures.456467/#post-918546

https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/t/modellib-texture-fallbacks/6260

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/use-of-default-objects-in-dev-mode.454730/

I am aware of the "snap to ground" feature, but I am experiencing issues with the function due to the complexities of the model. For example the poles, parkings spots on the upper levels, helicopter platform on lower level and so on doesn't snap to ground, but parts of the main building does, leading to issues in how the building actually fits into the terrain... .

My approach to accomodate the issue is to add multiple different terraforming polygons to adjust the terrain where needed. I am under the impression that adding terraforming polygons will represent "correctly" to the end user?

I see I have some reading material through my night-shift Thanks! Ill look into this

EDIT: If understand correctly from this link https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/re-using-msfs-textures.456467/#post-918546 the benefits of using MSFS standard textures and re-use them is to save some project space. That would certainly be possible to consider. Right now I am in a bit of a squeeze regarding the whole model due to my lack of knowledge/experience about the end result/size and the actual need to study and do "alot" of tinkering to save some space. In other words; how much time should I spend trying to understand these issues compared to the benefits, and will it be worth the workload and steep learning curve in the end... I have nothing to compare, and right now I am very happy just to get a textured model within the sim - meaning my model can easily stay at 250-300mb as long as it works.

BTW: I believe there are a few issues that you may wish to consider regarding use of static textures on 3D modeled terrain, instead of applying MSFS default terrain textures onto MSFS dynamic default terrain surfaces (whether terra-formed- or not-).
One must allow for MSFS seasonal changes to occur for realism to be displayed on all textures; this should vary by world location and time-of-day, and might impact snow that may display on ground and in end-user helicopter prop-wash effects.

Although seasonal dynamic changes are in their infancy in MSFS20 default scenery, AFAIK, it is already implemented in MSFS24.

I have been in the thought process of understanding how to accomodate the seasonal and environmental effects, but I have not yet dug deep into it. First; I am not quite sure how I want it to look in the end in the first place, in other words; what surfaces should have environmental and seasonal effects at all. Do I need to apply some sort of attribute to walls? I also need to understand the difference between textures applied on the MSFS ground within the SDK and the imported model. Are there any differences at all?

Right now I am thinking that snow should be cleared from the helicopter platform both on the roof and on the ground, but I do not necessarily want it to be totally cleared of snow effects. Is it possible to adjust the effect level somehow?

Also; A side note, and not an absolute "must", but it would be interesting to experiment: Is it possible to add objects which represent for example a snow pile from shoveling, but they only show during winter time?

While I do regard learning about the "Drape" / Projection" feature in Sketchup to make "Fake Terrain" as a valuable experience, IMHO, a more desirable goal for run time realism via the sophisticated 3D world rendering engine of MSFS, is to instead convert the geometry of the custom ground you described making at ENSX above, as source data used to terra-form the local terrain shape, so that all aspects of world rendering can operate normally.

Well, if it is possible to make the terrain follow the whole building then that would be perfect! I have yet to find such a function, but I'll investigate. As mentioned above I have not had success with the "snap to terrain". Thank you so much! In that case I will need to adjust the model a bit, but that will not be a significant issue.

 

[GaryGB]

I am aware of the "snap to ground" feature, but I am experiencing issues with the function due to the complexities of the model. For example the poles, parking spots on the upper levels, helicopter platform on lower level and so on doesn't snap to ground, but parts of the main building does, leading to issues in how the building actually fits into the terrain... .

My approach to accommodate the issue is to add multiple different terraforming polygons to adjust the terrain where needed. I am under the impression that adding terraforming polygons will represent "correctly" to the end user?

3D models will "Snap to Ground" if the underlying ground surface is actual default MSFS SDK terrain and not a "Fake Terrain" (aka hardened surfaces on Faces of a 3D model of terrain) which is a textured 3D model of the local ground surface.

All the more reason to ensure all local ground surface is actual default MSFS SDK terrain, whether terra-formed or not.

Obviously the local lay of the land at ENSX is a relatively shallow 'slope', so it must be terra-formed.


If you would be so kind as to please upload a ZIP of the Norway GIS data we discussed above of the cadastral *.SHP and DTM 1-Meter GeoTiff (*.TIF) for the local area surrounding the Stavanger Helipad site to DropBox (and link to it in a private message here), I will see that it is projected / output into (1) or more formats compatible with import to Sketchup and MSFS SDK DevMode Scenery Editor.


I will then upload a ZIP of that Norway GIS data converted / ready to use (to the extent feasible), and link you to it in that private message.

I plan to test creation of a MSFS terra-formed "sloped flatten" at ENSX using a vector Polygon in SHP format.

I may also be able to implement a MSFS terra-formed "sloped flatten" at ENSX using a vector Rectangle terrain grid object in SHP format.

If, after diligent efforts, it proves 'currently' non-feasible in MSFS20 due to impracticality and/or bugs in the 2020 SDK, I will let you know.


I would do the initial GIS 'grunt' work with the data, and if successful, I shall send it back to you for any use- (or non-use) ...as you see fit.

My only takeaway, if successful, is to be able to help FS developers learn to 3D model detailed "sloped flattens" in MSFS as we do in FS2Kx.

I plan to only 'cite-' but not further distribute- the ENSX project's GIS data as a "visualized" example sloped flatten via screenshots etc..


Alternatively I can use other 1 Meter- or even higher- resolution LiDAR data sources from different Geographic locations to test this concept.

I have been in the thought process of understanding how to accommodate the seasonal and environmental effects, but I have not yet dug deep into it. First; I am not quite sure how I want it to look in the end in the first place, in other words; what surfaces should have environmental and seasonal effects at all.

Do I need to apply some sort of attribute to walls?

AFAIK, no, because the MSFS world rendering engine already applies changes to shadows and color shifts in textured 3D models according to position on Earth's globe, time of year, time of day, current live or custom weather, and ...with "top" display priority.

I also need to understand the difference between textures applied on the MSFS ground within the SDK and the imported model.

Are there any differences at all?

Yes; AFAIK, SDK 3D model "Fake Terrain" textures do not dynamically change with MSFS' world rendering of weather, thus no snow.

Right now I am thinking that snow should be cleared from the helicopter platform both on the roof and on the ground, but I do not necessarily want it to be totally cleared of snow effects. Is it possible to adjust the effect level somehow?

Also; A side note, and not an absolute "must", but it would be interesting to experiment:

Is it possible to add objects which represent for example a snow pile from shoveling, but they only show during winter time?

Yes, this would be a 3D model SimObject object with PBR texture Materials that is 'conditionally' displayed seasonally via special code.

BTW: Chris Britton (aka "Rotornut44") has been doing work with custom 'weather' texture Materials for terrain; IIRC, he has made 'snow'.

As a very kind, talented fellow, Chris is also a Helo pilot via a family business; perhaps he may also share some tips for your project ?

GaryGB

 

[Nordscape]

3D models will "Snap to Ground" if the underlying ground surface is actual default MSFS SDK terrain and not a "Fake Terrain" (aka hardened surfaces on Faces of a 3D model of terrain) which is a textured 3D model of the local ground surface.

All the more reason to ensure all local ground surface is actual default MSFS SDK terrain, whether terra-formed or not.

Obviously the local lay of the land at ENSX is a relatively shallow 'slope', so it must be terra-formed.

Indeed. I have had success with the terraforming, so I will just adjust where necessary.

If you would be so kind as to please upload a ZIP of the Norway GIS data we discussed above of the cadastral *.SHP and DTM 1-Meter GeoTiff (*.TIF) for the local area surrounding the Stavanger Helipad site to DropBox (and link to it in a private message here), I will see that it is projected / output into (1) or more formats compatible with import to Sketchup and MSFS SDK DevMode Scenery Editor.


I will then upload a ZIP of that Norway GIS data converted / ready to use (to the extent feasible), and link you to it in that private message.

I plan to test creation of a MSFS terra-formed "sloped flatten" at ENSX using a vector Polygon in SHP format.

I may also be able to implement a MSFS terra-formed "sloped flatten" at ENSX using a vector Rectangle terrain grid object in SHP format.

If, after diligent efforts, it proves 'currently' non-feasible in MSFS20 due to impracticality and/or bugs in the 2020 SDK, I will let you know.


I would do the initial GIS 'grunt' work with the data, and if successful, I shall send it back to you for any use- (or non-use) ...as you see fit.

My only takeaway, if successful, is to be able to help FS developers learn to 3D model detailed "sloped flattens" in MSFS as we do in FS2Kx.

I plan to only 'cite-' but not further distribute- the ENSX project's GIS data as a "visualized" example sloped flatten via screenshots etc..


Alternatively I can use other 1 Meter- or even higher- resolution LiDAR data sources from different Geographic locations to test this concept.

I've hit an issue where it is not possible to download the data from the webpage previously used, due to limitations during the weekend (!). I will see if I can find another way to do it, but I don't know right now. I'll send you a link as soon as I have more...

AFAIK, no, because the MSFS world rendering engine already applies changes to shadows and color shifts in textured 3D models according to position on Earth's globe, time of year, time of day, current live or custom weather, and ...with "top" display priority.

Perfect! Thanks

Yes; AFAIK, SDK 3D model "Fake Terrain" textures do not dynamically change with MSFS' world rendering of weather, thus no snow.

I might have misunderstood but the flat faces with external PBR-textures render the snow effect, which I actually like although I sort of wish the platform had a bit less, but...

Yes, this would be a 3D model SimObject object with PBR texture Materials that is 'conditionally' displayed seasonally via special code.

BTW: Chris Britton (aka "Rotornut44") has been doing work with custom 'weather' texture Materials for terrain; IIRC, he has made 'snow'.

Interesting. I will look into that and update at a later time. I am quite focused on releasing the project rather soon as I seem to be relatively close to finishing the first stage (without the rest of the hospital)

Please also see the following images showing emissive textures! I am quite a pleased dude right now... and rather intuitive to implement through MCX as well by adding a emissive texture right in the texture editor! I have distinguished the light emission intensity from the main building and the hangar. The hangar is more intensive and bright while the rest of the building is more warm yellow.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Vetle:

Congratulations... those are admirable accomplishments; your project already looks great after a remarkably short period of development.

GaryGB

 

[Nordscape]

Hi Vetle:

Congratulations... those are admirable accomplishments; your project already looks great after a remarkably short period of development.

GaryGB

Thank you sir. Again, your part in this project has been invaluable both in therms of clarification and help with the process, but also for the motivational part! Thank you...