• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

FS2020 seems to be a game, but not simulator

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MS have specifically stated that developers will be free to offer their products in whatever way they wish. It may be that commercial payware must also be offered via the in-app store, but I haven't seen that stated. My impression is that MS want to encourage all developers to create as big a supply network as they have with previous versions of MSFS. Those of us not in the test programme will just have to wait and see what we have to learn in order to take part.

As for the game/sim argument, of course it's a game. It's made, and will be bought, primarily for entertainment. That doesn't mean it can't be a reasonably accurate simulation of the real thing, and, with suitable hardware, be used as the basis for a workable training flight simulation device. Believe me, even the latest Level D airliner sims would kill for the graphical sophistication of MSFS, and having considerable experience of these devices, I can tell you that they often aren't as accurate as their manufacturers would have you believe!
 
This should put an end to the question:


or maybe not. LOL!!!!


What an incredible chat that was...and that they will be doing it once a month. WOW!!! Guess MS has finally learned from their mistakes!!!! I am so stoked about this sim and its future!!!

Greg
 
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FlyingMasterChef said:
That is...unless I am 30 minutes from dinner. At that point, I don't care if it's GOD calling me....I will NOT be responding or returning a call until after the dinner rush
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make total sense to me, with that you wouldn't just not respond to your boss but to everyone,
in MS case we clearly see they have responded to youtubers or twitch influencer's while snubbing actual known and respected developers!


FlyingMasterChef said:
as far as I have seen from the big devs that we all know and love...MS is working with them no problem
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not exactly true, they hand picked very few and that's only after the big stink with SDK came about a while back,
a handful of dev's got to sign NDA with MS which is a free mouth-gag, mouth's shut forever be it good or bad they are not allowed to share even after release date,

some of you out there too naive like to forget things like how creepy they were waiting at the end of Expo two years ago to break this,
what we are seeing is Microsoft's monstrosity Public and Media Relations in full swing brain washing everyone they can reach,
 
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MyPC8MyBrain said:
they hand picked very few and that's only after the big stink with SDK came about a while back,
a handful of dev's got to sign NDA with MS which is a free mouth-gag, mouth's shut forever be it good or bad they are not allowed to share even after release date,
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I find the forever part hard to believe only because everything MS is posting and saying on videos is that the SDK will be available to everyone at launch and they even are asking developers to please share with them what they want and need in the SDK so it can be added. Not sure where you are getting your info but I'm getting mine directly from the MSFS team. Watch the dev video I posted where they talk directly about the SDK.

Greg
 
I can vouch for the fact that both MS and Asobo are rather busy and somewhat distracted. Also to be fair they are getting the same questions from different people on different forums. Tough as it maybe there are only a few days to go to release and my guess is some will love it and some will not.
 
scruffyduck said:
I can vouch for the fact that both MS and Asobo are rather busy and somewhat distracted
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i am sure they are at this stage of release,
not to nitpick too much but they had plenty time prior well over a year now,

FlyingMasterChef said:
they even are asking developers to please share with them what they want and need in the SDK
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how are they getting feedback if only select few in their beta group?
there are many cases where commercial developers don't wish to discuss topics in public or even ask a public question,
 
I think that we all have to realise that the concept of this sim is something that we have not seen before. It is not a one-time release with some few updates eventually later and no real information from the devs . This is a release which is considered as the start of a long time journey, with regular improvements and updates from rhe devs. Devs that listen to 3d party developers and to the community and try to implement their needs and wishes. As far as I understand there is not "only a few selected" for the alpha/beta, but a couple of hundreds. The devs are, based on their reactions and on all the interviews, very determined to make this entire ecosystem work. We have never before seen such a communicative development of a sim... And as stated - the SDK and all the tools they use in-house will be available to all of us! Exceptional! Looking very much forward to next week and to the coming autumn...
 
@WildLynxPilot that's spot on!

Chris, I understand your frustration and sympathize with your situation. You're left in the dark and it might not be fair that that's the case - my experience was different. I was left out initially, but I wrote an email and about a week later had access to the Alpha, the SDK and the msfs forums. Mind you, I'm just a humble one-man operation, so I really can't see any "favoritism" - it might just be that my timing was better than yours, or an oversight, or coincidence.
But here's the thing:
Once the SDK is released, you'll have access to all the information the "insiders" currently have. But what's even better: since there's quite a few of fsdeveloper members involved in the alpha, I'm sure they'll all chime in to give the rest a head-start.
 
Maybe I can summarize my 'predictions' the SDK'
  • There is one SDK and no special version for the lucky few 'big' developers. However it is worth remembering that some of these guys have big teams and are well able to develop tools to help themselves which they probably have. Also they have probably been working full time for some months on FS2020
  • The SDK appears to have built in tools as well as access to the sim from the outside. As far as I know the 'Developers' use these tools
  • It is almost certainly not complete. As Otmar says rhis is more of the start of a journey. Like Win 10 which gets patch updates on a regular basis
  • The current distribution of people with access to it runs from the biggest to the smallest and probably in the order of 100 so quite enough to provide a range of feedback. The Developers do listen.
  • The SDK is expected to be available to all at the time of release.
  • There is no 'conspiracy' ;)
  • Anyway only a few days
 
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Jon, according to the Q&A linked earlier, there are now over 700 developers with access to the current state of the SDK. I'm looking forward to seeing it myself, and getting to understand what we as individuals can achieve with it.
 
I'd love to say MSFS is a "new era", but it's not. Sorry, it's just not where I would expect a new flight simulator to be in 2020. It's got some core performance and visual issues that have nothing to do with the SDK and everything to do with Asobo.

I'll post all my performance data and videos in 4 days, shame Asobo weren't interested in it as I thought our participation was for "their" benefit ... it is frustrating because I really wanted this to be "THE" simulator for everyone (gamer, casual, hardcore).

Cheers, Rob.
 
robains said:
I'd love to say MSFS is a "new era", but it's not. Sorry, it's just not where I would expect a new flight simulator to be in 2020. It's got some core performance and visual issues that have nothing to do with the SDK and everything to do with Asobo.

I'll post all my performance data and videos in 4 days, shame Asobo weren't interested in it as I thought our participation was for "their" benefit ... it is frustrating because I really wanted this to be "THE" simulator for everyone (gamer, casual, hardcore).

Cheers, Rob.
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looking at the numerous videos; although ms done their best to hide it; the stutters are noticeable in many of the videos and that is on default scenery;
pretty sure; many will start on full settings blow sim without a top rig ; and smash into a wall of stutters around major airports and dense populated areas.
 
I am sure that if you ran a company with consumer based products your ad campaign would focus on showing the products in the best light. However perhaps there is a campaign proposition to show all the grotty bits :)
 
scruffyduck said:
I am sure that if you ran a company with consumer based products your ad campaign would focus on showing the products in the best light. However perhaps there is a campaign proposition to show all the grotty bits :)
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true
hope it run well on medium high rigs as stutters completely kill the immersion
 
katina12 said:
true
hope it run well on medium high rigs as stutters completely kill the immersion
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I agree with that but I would recommend folks to try on their current setups before spending a lot of money on new kit. Probably they will update in time though );
 
Sorry but that video is not helpful at all ... you can't do performance tuning without actually flying an aircraft to get the terrain engine working. No where in that video does the presenter fly the aircraft.

It's not a campaign ... unfortunate it's viewed as that ... over the decades user expectations have been a solid 60 FPS ... turning down graphic settings considerably per that video is going end up with all kinds of "resistance" ... the very same resistance that pushed users away from P3D and XP and gave up on flight simulation.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what happens next week ... there will be a Dunning-Kruger effect initially, but reality will eventually prevail.


Cheers, Rob.
 
"over the decades user expectations have been a solid 60 FPS"

Not from me it hasn't, forums I've been on for FSX and P3D have often recommended locking framerstes at 30 FPS.
 
robains said:
Sorry but that video is not helpful at all ... you can't do performance tuning without actually flying an aircraft to get the terrain engine working. No where in that video does the presenter fly the aircraft.
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Sorry, but I thought it was an extremely helpful and well-done video, and since it's only part one of a series, he'll do the flying soon enough.
Didn't really want to respond to this thread with its trolling title etc. so I guess better sign off.
--Manfred
 
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