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If its going on the web, it's in for a bumpy ride.
...and not just any old turbulence, it's headed toward a whole hurricane.
...and not just any old turbulence, it's headed toward a whole hurricane.
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Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:
- Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
- Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
- Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
- Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
- Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
- Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.
Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.
By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.
Good Freeware bad for business?
- Thread starter Horst18519
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different things
Payware and freeware are two absolutely different things and, by definition, cannot disturb each other. Payware means conformity to some public and private standards that involves additional expenses for maintenance of a corresponding additional infrastructure: for example obtaining a relevant material, a market and quality level research, research of potential buyers, requirements, competitors, creation of various plans and strategies, the organising of testings, supports etc. - that is all what word "quality" means. And, because of it, cannot be free-of-charge.
All it is created only for the user to receive a perfect and finished product and receive a maximum pleasure from the acquisition. If the manufacturer have ways to create such product with zero expenses - this is only his advantage, and a stimulus for him and for others to upgrade.
Business is a business, and the hobby is a hobby. And every hobby man can request an adequate fee.
And strategy of users - is simply to get max with min expenses - its absolutely normal. Remember the well-known Valve, with their Left 4 Dead 2.
Payware and freeware are two absolutely different things and, by definition, cannot disturb each other. Payware means conformity to some public and private standards that involves additional expenses for maintenance of a corresponding additional infrastructure: for example obtaining a relevant material, a market and quality level research, research of potential buyers, requirements, competitors, creation of various plans and strategies, the organising of testings, supports etc. - that is all what word "quality" means. And, because of it, cannot be free-of-charge.
All it is created only for the user to receive a perfect and finished product and receive a maximum pleasure from the acquisition. If the manufacturer have ways to create such product with zero expenses - this is only his advantage, and a stimulus for him and for others to upgrade.
Business is a business, and the hobby is a hobby. And every hobby man can request an adequate fee.
And strategy of users - is simply to get max with min expenses - its absolutely normal. Remember the well-known Valve, with their Left 4 Dead 2.
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Just a quick fyi..they absolutely CAN and DO disturb each other.. There are freeware projects that blow away MANY payware commercial products. And they would surely dominate if they had the advertising that a commercial project has.
As far as quality..that is a poor argument..because along with the above mentioned... there are MANY commercial products, at every level and type (just take windows for example) that get released with bugs, incomplete, and even dangerous. So to say they are commercial because they are perfect is flawed thinking.
Commercial products affect freeware by the simple reasoning of some people to think that ONLY a pay product can be of the quality and support they desire. Thus, they may not even ever look or try a freeware version. I know people like that.. I also know for a fact, that is very bad thinking.. I guarantee you will get WAY better support for many freeware fs products than you will ever get from MS for their products.. just a truth...
So, they can affect each other.. And they do.
- Greg
As far as quality..that is a poor argument..because along with the above mentioned... there are MANY commercial products, at every level and type (just take windows for example) that get released with bugs, incomplete, and even dangerous. So to say they are commercial because they are perfect is flawed thinking.
Commercial products affect freeware by the simple reasoning of some people to think that ONLY a pay product can be of the quality and support they desire. Thus, they may not even ever look or try a freeware version. I know people like that.. I also know for a fact, that is very bad thinking.. I guarantee you will get WAY better support for many freeware fs products than you will ever get from MS for their products.. just a truth...
So, they can affect each other.. And they do.
- Greg
Payware must be perfect. This is not a conclusion that payware is perfect.
Thats all are a subjective conversations. Lets look to objective things, like justice and laws. The fact is that payware manufacturers MUST support their users (to provide at least some declared level of help), and freeware manufacturers - NOT OBLIGED at all.
Thats all are a subjective conversations. Lets look to objective things, like justice and laws. The fact is that payware manufacturers MUST support their users (to provide at least some declared level of help), and freeware manufacturers - NOT OBLIGED at all.
Yes, Greg, this is a truly truth.
But why we still dont have a freeware flight simulator for today? It would be pretty good. Is it an impossible task? - not!
As to addons for MSFS, it seems to me that here it is not necessary to do less freeware, it is not necessary to do more payware. It for the reason that the further destiny of project MSFS has changed not to the best, and it, of course, (sooner or later) will affect negatively on its popularity.
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The real reason for Microsoft not continuing FS is (IMHO) because of the fact that they do not make enough money out of it.
With their new 'online' approach they hope to get more.
Now, if all the payware guys would apply for a low salary job at Microsoft, maybe MS would reconsider?
With their new 'online' approach they hope to get more.
Now, if all the payware guys would apply for a low salary job at Microsoft, maybe MS would reconsider?
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OK, here comes the typical duckbilled long answer to a simple question:
In FS9 I had a ton of freeware - just about every airport I could get my hands on. In FSX, things are very different. I have very little freeware scenery on my HD. The fact is there really isn't much out there that I am interested - not many major airports or commercial airliners at least. In addition, I mainly fly to and from airports that have AES support. FSX freeware airport scenery with AES support is even more rare.
I'll pay for quality but I expect support. I expect products to be tested with and updated for for the most current version of FSX (not just SP2, I mean Acceleration) and the most current software (Win 7). Obviously, I don't expect every FS9 title to be updated to FSX but I do expect every FSX title to be updated to Acceleration. Many developers will say products are SP2 compatible but they don't mention Acceleration which can present different issues than SP2.
To me, it seems like FSX is killing freeware. I don't know if it is more difficult to work with, there is a lack of interest among developers or their is a perception among developers that no one uses FSX. I'm not sure if the various versions of FSX have made it difficult for people to work with. Either way, there is a lot less freeware to choose from in FSX than there was with FS9 in 2007.
One big change for me with FSX was the camera system. Without the ability for have 2d cockpit views in FSX it made the 2d cockpit useless for me. After all, how can you fly only looking straight ahead? As a result, I exclusively fly in the vc in FSX. The point is, every aircraft needs to have a good quality vc in FSX for me to enjoy it and since they are difficult to produce, there are few suitable freeware aircraft out there for vc flyers. MS did one that that was nice in FSX - the programmed the ability to trade out vc's between aircraft that are compiled with the FSX SDK. If anybody (freeware or payware) was to advantage of this, we could have a whole new genre of add ons - add on vc's only rather than add on panels. This would be a huge step for FSX.
To answer the original question, I like the approach groups like ORBX have some payware, some freeware and a lot of quality. Of course, I want things for free but I would rather pay to have quality and support.
In FS9 I had a ton of freeware - just about every airport I could get my hands on. In FSX, things are very different. I have very little freeware scenery on my HD. The fact is there really isn't much out there that I am interested - not many major airports or commercial airliners at least. In addition, I mainly fly to and from airports that have AES support. FSX freeware airport scenery with AES support is even more rare.
I'll pay for quality but I expect support. I expect products to be tested with and updated for for the most current version of FSX (not just SP2, I mean Acceleration) and the most current software (Win 7). Obviously, I don't expect every FS9 title to be updated to FSX but I do expect every FSX title to be updated to Acceleration. Many developers will say products are SP2 compatible but they don't mention Acceleration which can present different issues than SP2.
To me, it seems like FSX is killing freeware. I don't know if it is more difficult to work with, there is a lack of interest among developers or their is a perception among developers that no one uses FSX. I'm not sure if the various versions of FSX have made it difficult for people to work with. Either way, there is a lot less freeware to choose from in FSX than there was with FS9 in 2007.
One big change for me with FSX was the camera system. Without the ability for have 2d cockpit views in FSX it made the 2d cockpit useless for me. After all, how can you fly only looking straight ahead? As a result, I exclusively fly in the vc in FSX. The point is, every aircraft needs to have a good quality vc in FSX for me to enjoy it and since they are difficult to produce, there are few suitable freeware aircraft out there for vc flyers. MS did one that that was nice in FSX - the programmed the ability to trade out vc's between aircraft that are compiled with the FSX SDK. If anybody (freeware or payware) was to advantage of this, we could have a whole new genre of add ons - add on vc's only rather than add on panels. This would be a huge step for FSX.
To answer the original question, I like the approach groups like ORBX have some payware, some freeware and a lot of quality. Of course, I want things for free but I would rather pay to have quality and support.
n4gix
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What? In FSX the "2d cockpit views" have been replaced by static-angle views of the "3d cockpit..."
This new system of course requires that the a/c have an interior model and VC, otherwise you only get unobstructed views, left-front, left, left-rear, rear, right-rear, right, and right-front...
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Kill our most epic discussion?
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Well at least close the thread 
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