FS2004 Is there a way to reduce the thrust at runtime?

[arrex2]

Dears,

I am trying to simulate things like bleed air, icing and other things that eventually come down to a reduced trust. As manipulating the throttle is not really what i need, and it's not easy to handle with autothrottles, I was thinking if there is a way to modify the "trust_scalar" at runtime; otherwise something that increases the drag might work... Or, for prop aircraft, something related to the prop efficiency..... maybe by means of manipulating some FSUIPC offsets this is eventually possible. Any idea?
I tried to adopt fake spoilers for this purposes and to increase the drag with some XML gauges.... but no, that's not working: for some reasons the key to set the spoiler handle position is failing unpredictably, ending up in not moving the spoilers at all. Only the keys SPOILER_ON and SPOILER_OFF seems reliable, but that's too much of a on/off effect... i need some "graduality". So a gauge handling extra drag in this way is not feasible.

 

[DragonflightDesign]

Quoting from my own document (sd2gau):

There are serious problems with the spoiler settings;
1. KEY_SPOILERS_SET is utterly snafu when on the ground. Don’t use it. (Note: seems to be fixed in FSX but not thoroughly tested).
2. KEY_AXIS_SPOILER_SET starts to get unreliable at extreme ranges, so you will need to trap them at those points.
3. KEY_SPOILER_ARM_SET,[value] simply bangs you through to full deployment and ignores [value]
4. KEY_SPOILER_ARM_ON does the same.

For ground settings use KEY_AXIS_SPOILER_SET . This code example is taken from an AGS (automatic ground spoiler) setup where pos is the extension setting for the spoilers:-

void setSpoilers(int pos)
{
if(!pos)send_key_event(KEY_SPOILERS_OFF,0); //Trap the lower end
else if(pos>16000)send_key_event(KEY_SPOILERS_ON,0); //Trap the upper end
else send_key_event(KEY_AXIS_SPOILER_SET,pos); //Anything in between
return;
}

Wade Chafe adds the following comments regarding KEY_SPOILERS_SET:

‘The thing is KEY_SPOILERS_SET sets the position of the spoiler handle, not the spoilers themselves. When the handle is armed the value returned from HANDLE_POS is 4701 so I guess they needed the variable to relate the handle position, thus anything below 4800 has no effect. I've also found some of the XML variables to be more reliable. The relationship between setting KEY_SPOILERS_SET and actual spoiler position is:

spoilers_value_to_set = spoilers_needed/sqrt(2.0)+4800;

'

 

[arrex2]

Hi,

1. KEY_SPOILERS_SET is utterly snafu when on the ground. Don’t use it. (Note: seems to be fixed in FSX but not thoroughly tested).
2. KEY_AXIS_SPOILER_SET starts to get unreliable at extreme ranges, so you will need to trap them at those points.

Thanks for the feedback. Actually i tried these both.... won't change much... both unreliable and not only at the extreme or on the ground... i would say unpredictably unreliably in each situation. I tried the KEY_AXIS_SPOILERS_SET at mid range and sometimes it works, sometimes not... i even tried to first always extend spoilers fully, then trying to reduce them.... none... won't work reliably.... seems like certain values are working, certain not.... so if you "sweep" spoilers you can get something, if you are insisting on certain values, no change. I eventually gave up on them
No other smart way to increase drag/reduce power at runtime?

 

[DragonflightDesign]

That's a bit odd. I used the spoilers to simulate water drag for various parts of the takeoff/landing run on the B-314 Clipper and it works perfectly.

Ah. A possible thought. Check spoiler_extension_time under [airplane_geometry] in the aircraft.cfg file. If it's too long then yes, it will give you problems because you may be trying to set a second value before the previous value has been reached.

 

[arrex2]

Will need to check that, but it looks strange. If I "sweep" (i.e. change potentially prior to reach the spoiler position) it works.... or at least, the spoilers move. If I send static values, it works 1 times over 3.
Furthermore, the command should control the axis, not the actual spoiler position. So what's the relation with the actual speed of spoiler movement?
What I might be doing is flooding the key: i simply check disparities between desired and actual position, and in case write the key..... I might put a timer to prevent the flooding...

PS: should the system work, how would you suggest to combine it with planes that actually have spoilers?

 

[Roy Holmes]

I suggest you look at the SDK for FS2004 to see what that sim allowed you to do with spoilers. From FSX onwards you can set variable amounts of spoiler extension.
Roy

 

[arrex2]

SDK only speaks of KEY_SPOILERS_SET and KEY_AXIS_SPOILER_SET.... both control only the handle. The first goes 0->16383, the second from -16383->+16383. BTW, the same as following versions, including P3D.

 

[EduHir]

In FS9 i used to set the spoiler by

       (L:SpoilM_Axis_Set,number) (>K:SPOILERS_SET)

(L:SpoilM_Axis_Set,number) is calculated by different condition
e.g . hydraulic fehler, position of spoilerlever, shut off valves, spoiler blow down, ...

  1000 (>K:SPOILERS_SET)    spoiler NO Armed
  4800 (>K:SPOILERS_SET)    arms spoiler position
  5384 (>K:SPOILERS_SET)    gives full spoiler on ground spoiler armed
  5800 (>K:SPOILERS_SET)    start with this value
 16384 (>K:SPOILERS_SET)    max value
  7384 (>K:SPOILERS_SET)    for example

++++++++++++++
also i use because i have my own spoilerlogic

<!-- Switch Off MS Event -->
      (A:SPOILERS ARMED,bool)
      if{
        (&gt;K:SPOILERS_ARM_OFF)
        }

 

[arrex2]

I think I found how to make spoilers work. The problem is that sometimes the values are ignored.... not clear why... making the desired % spoiler values oscillating a bit, seems to work.... it's like the spoiler axis needs to be pinged with different values for it to trigger. The code below, seems to work.... refinements are possible (like to refresh it every seconds or so)

    (G:Var1) 1 + (>G:Var1)

    233 (L:desired_spoilers, number) * 6981 - (G:Var1) + (>K:AXIS_SPOILER_SET)

    (G:Var1) 2 == if{ 0 (>G:Var1) }